I'd like to know who started the anti-Roy Williams campaign

[SkinsSuck09]

Roy Williams is a brand new man. You are all stuck in the past! He is number 38 now, don't you all know that erases his blown plays. Come on now, im sure he will be better this year ha ha! Yeah right!

 

[zeromaster]

I didn't, but I have watched it's growth with glee...

 

[DallasCowpoke]

It really began back in Parcells last season. The first game of the year, Plaxico Burress caught a touchdown pass that Roy Williams would have knocked down if he hadn't run into the official.

Myth!

 

[yeahyeah]

ever since roy found god, he hasnt been the same.



hmm, maybe god is a deadskins fan...?

See you in hell then

 

[Hostile]

It doesn't matter who started it. What matters is who can stop it.

Roy Williams, by stepping up to the plate and delivering.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

It doesn't matter who started it. What matters is who can stop it.

Roy Williams, by stepping up to the plate and delivering.

There was a dog, who had a name...

 

[AbeBeta]

Interesting question.

I think ultimately Roy has to take a big chunk of the blame here. Not for his play. But for how he has dealt with the press. Roy bought himself this avalanche of negative coverage. When asked about big plays he won't man up. He'll say stuff like "you don't know the coverage." He is widely believed by the press to have written and posted a nasty, rambling, and homophobic note to Jean-Jaques Taylor.

Reporters latch on to this stuff and aren't going to give him the benefit of the doubt. What that means is that everyone is primed to rip him (as I have done, in particular for taking a family vacation instead of attenting OTAs).

Roy is like that kid in grade school who would get so angry when you picked on him that it made you do it more. That's where he is with the press and honestly, the way he's treated them, I don't see it letting up.

 

[AbeBeta]

It doesn't matter who started it. What matters is who can stop it.

Roy Williams, by stepping up to the plate and delivering.

Damn skippy.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

Roy Williams came into the league being touted as "the next Ronnie Lott" He looked like he was going to be that kind of player at first, but he never fulfilled the enormous expectations. I think a lot of it is sour grapes over him just being a very good safety rather than the best ever. His play last year was disappointing, but I maintain that with the improvements to the secondary and the addition of Zach Thomas (who can virtually remove the TE from the offenses game plan), Roy is poised to be the player he was before. He's always been very good, just never the best.

 

[Idgit]

Roy Williams came into the league being touted as "the next Ronnie Lott" He looked like he was going to be that kind of player at first, but he never fulfilled the enormous expectations. I think a lot of it is sour grapes over him just being a very good safety rather than the best ever. His play last year was disappointing, but I maintain that with the improvements to the secondary and the addition of Zach Thomas (who can virtually remove the TE from the offenses game plan), Roy is poised to be the player he was before. He's always been very good, just never the best.

This is exactly the problem, and the hating started when his star stopped rising and began to level out.

It remains to be seen whether or not the underneath ILB coverage support really helps RW avoid some blame. My bet is that it will, but that nothing will solve the fact that there will still be fans whose expectations re: RW will not have been met, and we'll still be subjected to pointless caterwauling the way we were during the 2006 season.

Interesting question.

I think ultimately Roy has to take a big chunk of the blame here. Not for his play. But for how he has dealt with the press. Roy bought himself this avalanche of negative coverage. When asked about big plays he won't man up. He'll say stuff like "you don't know the coverage." He is widely believed by the press to have written and posted a nasty, rambling, and homophobic note to Jean-Jaques Taylor.

Reporters latch on to this stuff and aren't going to give him the benefit of the doubt. What that means is that everyone is primed to rip him (as I have done, in particular for taking a family vacation instead of attenting OTAs).

Roy is like that kid in grade school who would get so angry when you picked on him that it made you do it more. That's where he is with the press and honestly, the way he's treated them, I don't see it letting up.

Now, this I agree with. RW sets himself up in the press, and it's not a surprise that he gets dealt with accordingly. If he had been able to meet his enormous expectations, he'd get a free ride, but b/c he hasn't, it's open season.

 

[leeblair]

I just don't get it. If Roy makes a big play, it's accepted as okay.

But, if just three catches are made against him , he cost the team the game.


I think there must be someone who resents him, and fuels this fire.

And, don't think it doesn't affect Roy's play.

Any player wants to know the fans are behind him.


If everyone bashes him, and then it gets into the media, and into the locker room, then it starts to affect the entire team. You can say it doesn't happen, but they are human, just like you.

If you go into your home, and everyone in there is griping and complaining all the time, then you'll be unhappy, too; no matter how happy you were to start with.

I am shocked at the people who don't think that it matters because a guy who wears the star on his helmet get's bashed all the time. It matters to them, and it would to you.

And, yes, Roy may have his weaknesses; but he's also got his strengths. And, his strengths still make him an all-pro.

 

[Rampage]

i'm one of the people who want Roy off this team. but he can't be in a better situation to prove me and the rest of the folks who feel the same way wrong with the defense we have this season. if he can't succeed in this D this season he's officially washed up/gone soft whatever you wanna call it.

 

[rpntex]

Gotta give Parcells a lot of the blame. I believe RW can still be a very valuable part of the defense. The biggest problem for him is that he is, and always has been, "limited" in certain situations and roles. For instance, he's not suited to play SS in the "Tampa 2" system, and that was all Parcells ran. It exposed RW's coverage shortcomings by scheme alone. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed he had a better year (generally) last season.

In college at OU, his position was listed as Strong Safety, when what he really played was a "monster" back position in the old 4-4 defenses. It was a combination of LB/SS where the coverage requirements were less demanding.

I agree that the addition of Zach Thomas should help take some of the heat off in coverage, and maybe having Dave Campo back will help improve his technique.

He's still got the talent, but the truth is that he never was a true safety to begin with. I think we'll all be surprised this season. I'm not predicting all-pro, by any means...merely "solid".

 

[leeblair]

When he got burned for 2 TD's by Santana Moss and the Commanders. After that everybody began to expose his cover weakness. Countless TE's over the middle as well, Shockey owns RW.:bang2:

But I don't know who 1st started posting it here. I'm sure that individual will gladly brag about it sooner or later. I was in denial for almost 2 years.

Bradie James was another weakness over the middle till last season. God I hope Zack can stay healthy...

Yeah, I hated that game; but Roy Williams didn't cause the breakdown that led to that, and he wasn't the only defensive back getting burnt.

The whole defense shut down.

But, It's Roy's fault!

 

[Vintage]

Basically, it boils down to this.

If you asked every GM who the best S in the league is, you wouldn't get a unanimous decision. If you asked GMs to list the top 10 Ss in the league, Roy Williams would be on quite a few lists (how many, I do not know).

What this means, most likely, is that there really isn't a consensus amongst GMs/scouts/etc on player evaluations. Sure, there might be an broad agreement such as "Randy Moss is one of the best WRs in the game"...but when it comes to ranking players, you will get diverse opinions.

Yet... when you go across message boards, entertainment news sites, etc, everyone wants a ranking. So people like us, with significantly LESS knowledge than front offices, quibble over such pointless arguments because, hey, we are special.

Somewhere along the path, when enough people say it to form somewhat of a consensus, it becomes fact. The truth rarely matters; perception does.

Hence, Roy now sucks.

The most likely truth here is that on the vast innerwebs, there are maybe a handful of people who can fairly accurately judge a players skill.

Somewhere out there, is the correct answer to "How Does Roy rank compared to other Ss." There is an answer to it.

Its just that 99.9% of the world doesn't have the answer to it.


(Edit: this doens't mean we should avoid discussing stuff like this. We should engage in it if we want to. That's the point behind a message board.)

 

[AbeBeta]

If you asked every GM who the best S in the league is, you wouldn't get a unanimous decision. If you asked GMs to list the top 10 Ss in the league, Roy Williams would be on quite a few lists (how many, I do not know).

He'd absolutely be on these lists as top 10. But if you also had them list where players would be if they played up to their potential, you'd probably find that many GMs evaluated Roy as under performing -- that is, many would suggest that he should be better.

I don't think it is where he ranks compared to other SS that is the issue -- it is where he ranks compared to the ideal Roy. Every player will do worse than what they ideally could be, but with Roy the gap seems large. Are there reasons for this outside of his control? Sure, but how much of his performance can be attributed to those areas and how much is on Roy? That's issue number two.

Yet... when you go across message boards, entertainment news sites, etc, everyone wants a ranking. So people like us, with significantly LESS knowledge than front offices, quibble over such pointless arguments because, hey, we are special.

A great example of this is a thread discussing the opinions of actual GMs (see http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119943). The GM's opinions got hammered and discounted.

 

[Idgit]

He'd absolutely be on these lists as top 10. But if you also had them list where players would be if they played up to their potential, you'd probably find that many GMs evaluated Roy as under performing -- that is, many would suggest that he should be better.

I don't think it is where he ranks compared to other SS that is the issue -- it is where he ranks compared to the ideal Roy. Every player will do worse than what they ideally could be, but with Roy the gap seems large. Are there reasons for this outside of his control? Sure, but how much of his performance can be attributed to those areas and how much is on Roy? That's issue number two.

If this were true, the criticism of RW would be entirely merited, and the only debate would be about what the ideal Roy should have been in the first place.

What drives me nuts about the RW debate, is so much of the conversation revolves around where he stands relative to other SS in the league, and that so many have such a low regard for his abilities in that context.

 

[AbeBeta]

If this were true, the criticism of RW would be entirely merited, and the only debate would be about what the ideal Roy should have been in the first place.

What drives me nuts about the RW debate, is so much of the conversation revolves around where he stands relative to other SS in the league, and that so many have such a low regard for his abilities in that context.

Well, there are a ton of less than bright folks on the board who are all or nothing evaluators - he's either great or he sucks - nothing in between. On the other hand, there are a ton of bright folks who seem to have taken defending Roy on as their life's work. And that can be just as frustrating.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

who started the anti-Roy Williams campaign???

Ummm.........

that would be the "SUB-OPTIMAL-PLAY" of Roy Williams.

 

[tomson75]

that would be the "SUB-OPTIMAL-PLAY" of Roy Williams.

Well THAT is a new one. At least you're creative.

Can't say that anyone can argue with that one.