If it isnt broke dont fix it... blah blah blah

[THEHEREAFTER]

It was only the Cards in '05 but does anyone remember MBIII's first START? He was superb all day long rushing for about 120+ and two TD's. It was only one game but for those writing MBIII off as a starter, I think we need to give him a chance first? Sometimes I think he can be a pro-bowl caliber back as the feature?


Officially, I'm on the fence here. I want us to continue with what's working on one hand. We finished top 5 in points and yards last year using this combination system. Also I think JJ can be great but he does more and more to disprove that? I think it's becoming more and more apparent that JJ is only the "starter" by name. MBIII gets the red-zone and important carries. He's also great out of the backfield. His catch and run in the flat Sunday night was great.

My prediction: MBIII gets more and more carries as the season wears on? Who knows..? I just want to see success for the team...

 

[Hoov]

Not when you factor in that two different coaching staffs have now concluded that he's best suited to coming off the bench... this is the basis for my argument that he's not likely to enjoy the same success if he was made the starter...

But I guess you just think that both Parcells and Phillips are idiots, and misusing this superstar in the making... I guess it's possible, but I consider it highly unlikely...

Wade's continued employment depends on his won-loss record, why would he keep a back he considered to be better on the bench??

IOW, Hoov, just because YOU and some dilettante football experts on a message board are convinced that Barber is an explosion waiting to happen, it doesn't make it so... particularly not when those a lot better qualified to judge than you are seem to believe he's best suited as the second back in a two back rotation...

You can argue this all you want, but if you wish to sway me, to change my mind, you're gonna have to give me some reason to accept YOUR opinion over that of Bill Parcells and Wade Phillips... if it was just one of them, it would be one thing, every coach has his bad calls... but if both of them agree about how a Jones-Barber rotation is most effectively employed, that's good enough for me (again remembering that I like Barber just fine, I'm surely not a "Barber hater")...

i have to disagree, you assume the coaching staff feels jj is the better back but they have not stated so.

How about this....parcells kept JJ starting out of loyalty and to not bruise his fragile ego and stir up a controversy knowing that he wanted to employ both backs - he felt it better to allow JJ to start the game and bring in barber at different times throughout the game.

Wade comes in and decides for now, he will not rock the boat with the RB situation and continue to employ a 2 back approach and give JJ every opportunity to showcase what he can do.

I am certainly not pretending to know more than the coaches, but i will not buy into the speculation that the coaches like JJ better because he got the first carry of the game - or because he had a few more carries than barber did.

You may not wish to entertain my theory, and that is what it is at this moment, just a theory, but you cant disprove it any more than you can prove to me that the coaches think JJ is a better back because he gets the first carry of the game.

I beleive that Barber's involvement will increase as the year goes on, but i dont think wade is going to make a drastic change all of a sudden and go rocking the boat and get JJ upset as long as we are winning.

It is obvious from the players quotes that JJ is a little defensive about his playing time, seems like he is going to need to be stroked a little more than barber right now.

 

[dboyz]

I have a simple solution.

Put them both in similar situations and give them a similar workload. I think we're on our to doing that. If after 8 games Barber's 1st down % is 5 ypc and Jones is 4ypc (and they've each had enough carries to make is statistically reliable), then start Barber.

Otherwise you can slice and dice the statistics anyway you want.

After this game Barber may have looked better, but that is not guaranteed to happen next week.

 

[zeromaster]

This team has much bigger concerns than the running game, but people still want to debate it.

It's like trying to save the spotted salamander; it probably won't change the world, but it'll make some conservationist sleep better.

 

[superonyx]

So silverbear it appears you blindly follow what someone does just because they are paid to do that. So i supposed that the packers drafting Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders was the move that was better for the team? Or Parcells drafting Bobby Carpenter last year. Or maybe Jacobs ect?

And by following your belief that if a coach believes it to be true then it must be true also follows suit then Tom Brady's limited role at Michigan also an accurate evaluation of talent?

If you want to compare Marion Barber to someone (which i assume you do by your hambrick comparison) they why not Ahman Green? He played limited time with Seattle behind Ricky Watters. When he got the opportunities to play he looked strong and promising. Well the packers were smart enough to trade for him and look what happened. And this is with even less carries and TD's then MB has.

I dont understand why some cowboys fans cannot see that MB has what it takes to be a feature back. It seems like most former cowboys as well as his peers around the league all see it.

And his coach at Minn. always uses a 2 back offense. Even after MB left Mulroney didnt dominate. He split time with another back and they each got the yards. The patriots dont see so afraid to give him carries.

Many people seem content to let Barber leave without even knowing if he could be special. I know people have a major man crush on McFadden already. Maybe he will be a great pro back. But lets look at the last several years of first round backs. Cadillac williams, cedric benson, even Bush. We have a player on our team that almost every fan his to wonder "what if".
Is Julius Jones so impressive that we should not want to get out questions answered?

 

[theogt]

Both put up terrific stats as BACKUP running backs... but when Troy was elevated to starter status, as some are proposing we do with Marion now, his numbers suddenly took a nosedive...

It is an entirely legitimate comparison, on that level... other running backs have enjoyed success as backups, only to find it's JUST a little tougher when you're the starter...

Watch the players. They're nothing alike. Making the comparison is just dumb.

 

[Doomsday101]

So silverbear it appears you blindly follow what someone does just because they are paid to do that. So i supposed that the packers drafting Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders was the move that was better for the team? Or Parcells drafting Bobby Carpenter last year. Or maybe Jacobs ect?

And by following your belief that if a coach believes it to be true then it must be true also follows suit then Tom Brady's limited role at Michigan also an accurate evaluation of talent?

If you want to compare Marion Barber to someone (which i assume you do by your hambrick comparison) they why not Ahman Green? He played limited time with Seattle behind Ricky Watters. When he got the opportunities to play he looked strong and promising. Well the packers were smart enough to trade for him and look what happened. And this is with even less carries and TD's then MB has.

I dont understand why some cowboys fans cannot see that MB has what it takes to be a feature back. It seems like most former cowboys as well as his peers around the league all see it.

And his coach at Minn. always uses a 2 back offense. Even after MB left Mulroney didnt dominate. He split time with another back and they each got the yards. The patriots dont see so afraid to give him carries.

Many people seem content to let Barber leave without even knowing if he could be special. I know people have a major man crush on McFadden already. Maybe he will be a great pro back. But lets look at the last several years of first round backs. Cadillac williams, cedric benson, even Bush. We have a player on our team that almost every fan his to wonder "what if".
Is Julius Jones so impressive that we should not want to get out questions answered?

You can find players who did not live up to the 1st rd billing at every position and while Benson, Williams and some other have not been overly impressive others like Emmitt, LT, Dorsett, Campbell, Dickerson and many other 1st rd picks at RB have been or were very dominate. In the case of McFadden I do think he has everything you would want in a back. Size, strenght, speed and vision and it will be the reason he will be a top pick in the draft.

 

[Jay-D]

Some of you folks envision throwing MBIII in there for the whole game and him picking up 400 yards rushing. It's not gonna happen because his running style is going to beat his body up. Stop being so delusional.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[superonyx]

The point was not to bash McFadden at all.
Just to realize that giving a RB like MB only 6 carries a game in hopes that McFadden will be a savior is not statistically the smartest thing to do.
1st we dont know that we will be in a position to draft him. 2nd The nfl draft is a huge gamble no matter how a player looks in college. More 1st round running backs fall on their faces than make it big. Thats a fact. They all had the size, speed, ect to make it. Otherwise they would not have been drafted so early and so much money spent on them. But the pro game is different than the college game. And for some reason backs get to this level and dont pan out. It is a gamble and it applies to every position in football.

Barber was successful in college. He has been successful when given the chance in the pros. Why not increase the chances he gets and see what happens?
Will taking 5-10 carries away from julius jones hurt our running game so much when those balls will go to barber?

 

[theogt]

Some of you folks envision throwing MBIII in there for the whole game and him picking up 400 yards rushing. It's not gonna happen because his running style is going to beat his body up. Stop being so delusional.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

You think it will. But you have no idea, really.

Make **** up. Post. Repeat?

 

[aikemirv]

So silverbear it appears you blindly follow what someone does just because they are paid to do that. So i supposed that the packers drafting Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders was the move that was better for the team? Or Parcells drafting Bobby Carpenter last year. Or maybe Jacobs ect?

And by following your belief that if a coach believes it to be true then it must be true also follows suit then Tom Brady's limited role at Michigan also an accurate evaluation of talent?

If you want to compare Marion Barber to someone (which i assume you do by your hambrick comparison) they why not Ahman Green? He played limited time with Seattle behind Ricky Watters. When he got the opportunities to play he looked strong and promising. Well the packers were smart enough to trade for him and look what happened. And this is with even less carries and TD's then MB has.

I dont understand why some cowboys fans cannot see that MB has what it takes to be a feature back. It seems like most former cowboys as well as his peers around the league all see it.

And his coach at Minn. always uses a 2 back offense. Even after MB left Mulroney didnt dominate. He split time with another back and they each got the yards. The patriots dont see so afraid to give him carries.

Many people seem content to let Barber leave without even knowing if he could be special. I know people have a major man crush on McFadden already. Maybe he will be a great pro back. But lets look at the last several years of first round backs. Cadillac williams, cedric benson, even Bush. We have a player on our team that almost every fan his to wonder "what if".
Is Julius Jones so impressive that we should not want to get out questions answered?

I don't think that I have read one person on this board who is content to let Barber leave. It is JJ whose contract is up at the end of this year, not Barbers. I have read many who are content to let him leave though! That is not a valid argument.

What questions do you have about Barber that need to be answered?

That he can be a full time 25 carry a game back? So you don't pick McFadden?

I have no questions about Barber. He is great the way he is right now. Could he be a full time starter. I think he could be and we would do fine. Would he be as effective full time as he is part time? Maybe not, but we would not need McFadden to supplement that, just a nice inside runner to fill in - like a Dominic Rhoades type.

 

[superonyx]

Some of you folks envision throwing MBIII in there for the whole game and him picking up 400 yards rushing. It's not gonna happen because his running style is going to beat his body up. Stop being so delusional.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

This is the misconception that people have about people that want barber to get more carries. We dont want barber to get 30 carries a game. But we also do not see the advantage to JJ getting 20 while Barber gets 8. Switch that around. How many times has barber missed games on this level or in college because of his running style? What do we have that would make us believe that he will get "beat up"?

And 400 yards a game? Huh. Where do you come up with this stuff? You dont have to state a goofy number to make your point. That kind of post does a disservice to all the other people who want to keep the carries like they are.

 

[aikemirv]

The point was not to bash McFadden at all.
Just to realize that giving a RB like MB only 6 carries a game in hopes that McFadden will be a savior is not statistically the smartest thing to do.
1st we dont know that we will be in a position to draft him. 2nd The nfl draft is a huge gamble no matter how a player looks in college. More 1st round running backs fall on their faces than make it big. Thats a fact. They all had the size, speed, ect to make it. Otherwise they would not have been drafted so early and so much money spent on them. But the pro game is different than the college game. And for some reason backs get to this level and dont pan out. It is a gamble and it applies to every position in football.

Barber was successful in college. He has been successful when given the chance in the pros. Why not increase the chances he gets and see what happens?
Will taking 5-10 carries away from julius jones hurt our running game so much when those balls will go to barber?

Again, look at the last game - 6 of Barbers 11 carries were for 2 yrds or less. That is not a good way to be consistently in a good down and distance situation.

 

[Doomsday101]

The point was not to bash McFadden at all.
Just to realize that giving a RB like MB only 6 carries a game in hopes that McFadden will be a savior is not statistically the smartest thing to do.
1st we dont know that we will be in a position to draft him. 2nd The nfl draft is a huge gamble no matter how a player looks in college. More 1st round running backs fall on their faces than make it big. Thats a fact. They all had the size, speed, ect to make it. Otherwise they would not have been drafted so early and so much money spent on them. But the pro game is different than the college game. And for some reason backs get to this level and dont pan out. It is a gamble and it applies to every position in football.

Barber was successful in college. He has been successful when given the chance in the pros. Why not increase the chances he gets and see what happens?
Will taking 5-10 carries away from julius jones hurt our running game so much when those balls will go to barber?

I like Barber and expect him to remain with the team after this season but I would not pass on McFadden if he is there. I don't care if others failed McFadden in my opinion has special talent. I saw it with LT and many other great backs and I see it with McFadden.

 

[superonyx]

Again, look at the last game - 6 of Barbers 11 carries were for 2 yrds or less. That is not a good way to be consistently in a good down and distance situation.

Well lets look at more than just the last game. Lets look at last season also. Lets also look at Julius in this category. How about Larry Johnson, or LT?
Also look at when those carries happened ect.
We all know that blocking, defense, ect plays a huge part in a runningbacks numbers.
We all knows that we can take whatever number we want and make it look like what we want. We also know that we have seen enough of MB now to cause the rest of the league to fear him. That means something.

 

[gbrittain]

People really need to quit comparing Hambrick to MB3.

1. The ONLY reason Hambrick averaged 5 ypc that one year is cuz he had an 84 yard run vs Philly (in which he did NOT score).


2. Hambrick tripped over blades of grass. MB3 mows the grass, the LB, the Safety, the ref, and anything else that gets in his way.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

People really need to quit comparing Hambrick to MB3.

1. The ONLY reason Hambrick averaged 5 ypc that one year is cuz he had an 84 yard run vs Philly (in which he did NOT score).


2. Hambrick tripped over blades of grass. MB3 mows the grass, the LB, the Safety, the ref, and anything else that gets in his way.

You forgot #3

He was once tackled by a single finger. The same finger TO gave Wilson.
Thats a true story.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well lets look at more than just the last game. Lets look at last season also. Lets also look at Julius in this category. How about Larry Johnson, or LT?
Also look at when those carries happened ect.
We all know that blocking, defense, ect plays a huge part in a runningbacks numbers.
We all knows that we can take whatever number we want and make it look like what we want. We also know that we have seen enough of MB now to cause the rest of the league to fear him. That means something.

Line play is very important but I saw other RB behind the Dallas line of the 90's and did not come close to the production that Emmitt provided. The year he held out we lost the 1st 2 games of the season when he returned the Dallas offense started producing and went on to win the SB being the 1st team to lose their 1st 2 game and end up winning it all. Great RB can make a line look better.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Perhaps a Carolina Panthers fan lurker?

Your post is feud for thought.

I just go with the assumption that the Dallas Cowboys coaches might know something we do not.
I know, a radical opinion, but as Thomas Paine once said, " 'Tis a sinking ship we board on the advise (sic) of the captin (sic) though we clamber (sic) to prove we are seemen (sic) and know what tis right." What does this say, besides that he did not know how to spell? Well, I am no historian, so ax someone who knows.

Let me add that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And as one wise Poster said recently just after the GiANTs game, RB is hardly a problem here.

 

[joseephuss]

This is the misconception that people have about people that want barber to get more carries. We dont want barber to get 30 carries a game. But we also do not see the advantage to JJ getting 20 while Barber gets 8. Switch that around. How many times has barber missed games on this level or in college because of his running style? What do we have that would make us believe that he will get "beat up"?

And 400 yards a game? Huh. Where do you come up with this stuff? You dont have to state a goofy number to make your point. That kind of post does a disservice to all the other people who want to keep the carries like they are.

Julius does not get 20 carries a game. He got 16.68 per game last year and Barber got 8.44 per game last year. In one game this season, Julius got 16 and Barber got 11. I expect more of the same the rest of the season.