If it isnt broke dont fix it... blah blah blah

[Bleu Star]

I am getting really tired of hearing people saying the same weak arguments about the Marion Barber vs J Jones debate.

Here is some popular ones and some logical responses:

If it aint broke why fix it?
If you have 1 running back that averages 5 yards per carry and scores so many touchdowns and you are taking carries away from him and giving them to a rb that hardly ever gets in the endzone and averages 4 ypc then something is broke. Something needs to be fixed.

MB has never proved he could carry the load for a season.
Has he ever given anyone a reason to think he cant carry the load? Has he been injury prone? Is he a small brian westbrook or dave megget type of back that would get physically beat up? No he is 220 pounds solid. Priest Holmes never started until the Chiefs signed him from the ravens.

I like the 1-2 punch. It's the best for the team.
Going back up to the 1st response.... how do we know its the best for the team? We have an explosive downhill runner that spins, stiffarms, plows through tacklers for every last yard possible. How is him watching from the sidelines while the other rb performs at an inferior level best for the team?

We scored 45 points and our defense sucks so why talk about this?
How about because this is a message board and that is what people do on message boards. Just because Romo threw for 4 touchdowns, and ran 1 in does not mean every offensive player gets a pass on everything.

Now some may find it hard to believe that us cowboys fans that want Barber to carry the bulk of the load actually like Julius Jones. Well we do. I know i do. However it has became to difficult to keep watching this continue and not say something. It is messed up that our best RB is not our starting RB. Lets put it like this and see if the Julius Jones supporters will agree.......

If both players entered free agency right now. (unrestricted) Who do you think would get more interest around the league? Who would get a bigger contract? hmmm....

You probably would have done better just posting here or here.

Anyway... Your arguments are very valid and, for the record, I do believe Barber will continue to receive the bulk of the "most important" carries.

Barber has proven that he is the better back and is also well deserving of at least a 50/50 split on carries. We're seeing the ball in his hands when it matters the most and that's good enough for me. :starspin

Oh, & for those wanting to compare Barber to Hambrick... You oughta be a shamed of yourselves.

 

[AdamJT13]

That's in large part because Julius couldn't get much going on 1st and 2nd down and Tony ended up throwing a lot of 3rd and longs. Thus, Barber didn't get many 3rd down carries. In fact, he only had one 3rd down carry and one 4th down carry.

Barber had only 38 carries all of last season on third or fourth down -- or 2.4 per game. So two or three in a game is normal, and he got two.

Excluding Julius's 21 yard run, he had 8 carries on first down for 17 yards (2.1 YPC).

And excluding Barber's 19-yard run, he had four carries on first down for 10 yards (2.5 YPC).

Whenever you take out the longest run out of just a handful of carries (in this case, five or nine), you're usually going to end up with an average between 2 and 3, since those are the most common distances for rushing attempts in the NFL. It's the long runs that brings the average up to 4.0 or so.

 

[Tricky Trav]

I think that any above average back would be very productive coming off the bench against a Defense that is already tired. Marion is refreshed and ready to go, and the Defense is trying to catch there second wind. Any team in the league would LOVE to have a 2 back system like Dallas does. It can be compared to the way that the San Antonio Spurs use Ginobili off the bench. The dude could be a starter, but is not. But it works well enough to win them Championships. Its not broke, so don't fix it !

 

[MONT17]

Ok lets say we switch it up. Now Julius is doing better do we switch back. How soon we forget when we had T-Ham rushing for like a 4.0 ypc many thought he should start over emmitt who looked he lost a step. When troy was a full time starter in 2004 he avg'd a paltry 3.53 ypc, when he left and went to Arizona to back up emmitt again he avg 4.49 ypc. Like MBIII all the same argument were used on why he should start.

that Hambrick thing was funny... alot of Cowboy fans on this board turned in their coaches card!!!

 

[silverbear]

Barber =/= Hambrick

Why even bring this up?

Both put up terrific stats as BACKUP running backs... but when Troy was elevated to starter status, as some are proposing we do with Marion now, his numbers suddenly took a nosedive...

It is an entirely legitimate comparison, on that level... other running backs have enjoyed success as backups, only to find it's JUST a little tougher when you're the starter...

 

[superonyx]

PLEASE come up with a better argument of why our best and most feared running back is not getting more carries..... Saying that a former cowboys running back looked good until he became the starter therefore no running back that didnt start could ever be good is just plain stupid..... Hambrick...haha

Using Hambrick as the argument to support your view just tells everyone that you have no compelling argument.

 

[Hoov]

Both put up terrific stats as BACKUP running backs... but when Troy was elevated to starter status, as some are proposing we do with Marion now, his numbers suddenly took a nosedive...

It is an entirely legitimate comparison, on that level... other running backs have enjoyed success as backups, only to find it's JUST a little tougher when you're the starter...

yes, but many backs that have enjoyed success as a backup have gone on to be great starters - so the arguement that barber will turn into hambrick is silly. he could also turn into larry johnson. until given the opportunity we just wont know. But from what we have seen, i would put money on the latter.

 

[joseephuss]

I am getting really tired of hearing people saying the same weak arguments about the Marion Barber vs J Jones debate.

Here is some popular ones and some logical responses:

If it aint broke why fix it?
If you have 1 running back that averages 5 yards per carry and scores so many touchdowns and you are taking carries away from him and giving them to a rb that hardly ever gets in the endzone and averages 4 ypc then something is broke. Something needs to be fixed.

Barber is very good in the red zone. That is where he is best utilized by the Cowboys. Last year Julius and 49 carries in the red zone and Marion had 51. Jones had 139 yards and 2 TDs. Barber had 171 yards and 14 TDs. Barber is the hammer once the team reaches the red zone. Julius scored two more TDs from other spots on the field out of his 218 remaining carries. Barber did not score with his remaining 84 carries from the rest of the field.

I think that Dallas gets good use out of both backs. Probably the best possible use out of both of them. I don't see either of them as a truly every down, 20 carries per game back. If Barber got that many carries I think he would get worn down and be less effective. He probably should get more than his 8.5 he has averaged the last couple of seasons, but he still needs to split carries with Julius.

I won't complain about the use of both guys when they came off a game where they combined for 171 yards(Barber 65 rushing, 29 receiving--Jones 66 rushing, 11 receiving).

Maybe I will complain after a loss. In the last three losses for Dallas against Philly, Detroit and in the playoffs against Seattle, Marion had 16 carries for 22 yards(1.38 ypc) and Julius had 42 carries for 177 yards(4.21 ypc). Take out the playoff game and Julius only had 20 rushing attempts for 65 yards(3.25 ypc). What are we complaining about again?

 

[Doomsday101]

Marion Barber said it himself. If it aint broke, don't fix it. May he was being politically correct, but if he can accept his role, there's no reason why the rest of us shouldn't. You have to admit MBIII is pretty productive the way we're using him.

Who is to say he this team would not be better if Barber was to get more carries? I don't think anyone has suggested that he get 25 carries a game only that he be a bit more involved in the offense. You can fine tune things that are not broken.

 

[aikemirv]

Lets look at the individual runs themselves:

Julius had carries of :3,1,3,5,6,(2),2,3,5,3,6,3,21,(1),3,5

MB II had carries of :7,(1),18,1,19,1,9,2,1,7,1

ON 16 carries JJ got less than 3 yrds 4 times

On 11 carries MBII got less than 3 yrds 6 times

I think this might tell you a lot about why the coaching staff is starting JJ and playing him the most early in the game. Especially early they want to keep the down and distance manageable and establish the run, running up the middle and so forth. MBII does not really do that.

I will say this. JJ is not the same RB he was in his rookie year that is for sure but I think by the end of the year we are going to have a hard time letting him go.

 

[dooomsday]

I am getting really tired of hearing people saying the same weak arguments about the Marion Barber vs J Jones debate.

Here is some popular ones and some logical responses:

If it aint broke why fix it?
If you have 1 running back that averages 5 yards per carry and scores so many touchdowns and you are taking carries away from him and giving them to a rb that hardly ever gets in the endzone and averages 4 ypc then something is broke. Something needs to be fixed.

MB has never proved he could carry the load for a season.
Has he ever given anyone a reason to think he cant carry the load? Has he been injury prone? Is he a small brian westbrook or dave megget type of back that would get physically beat up? No he is 220 pounds solid. Priest Holmes never started until the Chiefs signed him from the ravens.

I like the 1-2 punch. It's the best for the team.
Going back up to the 1st response.... how do we know its the best for the team? We have an explosive downhill runner that spins, stiffarms, plows through tacklers for every last yard possible. How is him watching from the sidelines while the other rb performs at an inferior level best for the team?

We scored 45 points and our defense sucks so why talk about this?
How about because this is a message board and that is what people do on message boards. Just because Romo threw for 4 touchdowns, and ran 1 in does not mean every offensive player gets a pass on everything.

Now some may find it hard to believe that us cowboys fans that want Barber to carry the bulk of the load actually like Julius Jones. Well we do. I know i do. However it has became to difficult to keep watching this continue and not say something. It is messed up that our best RB is not our starting RB. Lets put it like this and see if the Julius Jones supporters will agree.......

If both players entered free agency right now. (unrestricted) Who do you think would get more interest around the league? Who would get a bigger contract? hmmm....

I agree completely. No surprises!

What should we wait for it to break, LOL! We should preemptive not reactive. Thats BP's MO.

Now, this assumes MB3 is truly the better back.

But, watching MB3 over the past 10 or so games, why would you not want that guy on the field as much as possible? Yes, more than JuJo. He is clearly more dangerous in most aspects of the game. And gives the team some energry and leadership. The truth is his even gets more long TD runs we keep hoping JuJo will deliver.

I say we improve where we can throughout the year and peak during the playoffs. Regardless of "stats" and scoring on the Gnats we need to establish a consistent running game. We were awful down the stretch last year. How soon they forget.

I am not familiar with a team that started the worse of 2 backs for very long. We gave JuJo more than enough opportunity to distinguish himself. I dont hear too many people on either side saying he's a premiere RB. Its not like we cant use JuJo as the change of pace...



:starspin

 

[superpunk]

I think the notion that one is performing significantly better than the other on the field is misguided. We like how Barber runs better. That doesn't mean that he is the better RB.

I think the notion that Julius is a bigger gamebreaker is misguided. He may be more talented, but he's not a bigger threat.

I think Julius is on the field more than Marion because he is more of a robot, and he understands when there isn't a play to be made and will take his three yards. Marion needs to fight, and ends up getting tackled down the line more.

But, Marion's stuff pct. last year was among the league's best.

I think it isn't broke, and we shouldn't fix it - blah blah blah. At least, we shouldn't fix it by switching their roles. We should fix it by replacing Julius.

 

[Doomsday101]

It appears the roles have changed somewhat from last year with Barber getting into the game earlier and getting series earlier in the game than he did last season I expect that to continue through out the season.

 

[dooomsday]

I think the notion that one is performing significantly better than the other on the field is misguided. We like how Barber runs better. That doesn't mean that he is the better RB.

I think the notion that Julius is a bigger gamebreaker is misguided. He may be more talented, but he's not a bigger threat.

I think Julius is on the field more than Marion because he is more of a robot, and he understands when there isn't a play to be made and will take his three yards. Marion needs to fight, and ends up getting tackled down the line more.

But, Marion's stuff pct. last year was among the league's best.

I think it isn't broke, and we shouldn't fix it - blah blah blah. At least, we shouldn't fix it by switching their roles. We should fix it by replacing Julius.

Its a fair argument.

For me its simple. JuJo doesn't really get the job done st the same level as MB3. I dont find them to be equal ball players.

I am not sure MB3 is a feature back. But the more responsibility we give him outside of short yardage and 3rd down the more he responds. I didnt always see him as an every down back, but now I say why not? That screen he turned into a TD run was spectacular. I would love to have that potential on the field on all downs!

I dont dislike JuJo, but we say we want him for home runs. Does he deliver them? MB3 breaks as many long run, and more long TD runs. Maybe not 70 yards but we dont give him the ball in those positions.

I would love to see MB3 our there as much as possible. I think he is the better player who has more to offer. There is enough room for them both with JuJo off the bench too.

 

[silverbear]

PLEASE come up with a better argument of why our best and most feared running back is not getting more carries..... Saying that a former cowboys running back looked good until he became the starter therefore no running back that didnt start could ever be good is just plain stupid.....

Never said that, I said that Hambrick was an example of a backup RB who benefitted from being a backup, and did not fare as well when he became a starter...

Do try to actually understand what you read before commenting on it, unless of course you like throwing out such profoundly ridiculous responses...

Using Hambrick as the argument to support your view just tells everyone that you have no compelling argument.

Actually, I found the argument I made quite compelling... must have been, since you haven't even tried to rebut it...

 

[silverbear]

yes, but many backs that have enjoyed success as a backup have gone on to be great starters - so the arguement that barber will turn into hambrick is silly.

Not when you factor in that two different coaching staffs have now concluded that he's best suited to coming off the bench... this is the basis for my argument that he's not likely to enjoy the same success if he was made the starter...

But I guess you just think that both Parcells and Phillips are idiots, and misusing this superstar in the making... I guess it's possible, but I consider it highly unlikely...

Wade's continued employment depends on his won-loss record, why would he keep a back he considered to be better on the bench??

IOW, Hoov, just because YOU and some dilettante football experts on a message board are convinced that Barber is an explosion waiting to happen, it doesn't make it so... particularly not when those a lot better qualified to judge than you are seem to believe he's best suited as the second back in a two back rotation...

You can argue this all you want, but if you wish to sway me, to change my mind, you're gonna have to give me some reason to accept YOUR opinion over that of Bill Parcells and Wade Phillips... if it was just one of them, it would be one thing, every coach has his bad calls... but if both of them agree about how a Jones-Barber rotation is most effectively employed, that's good enough for me (again remembering that I like Barber just fine, I'm surely not a "Barber hater")...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Who is to say he this team would not be better if Barber was to get more carries? I don't think anyone has suggested that he get 25 carries a game only that he be a bit more involved in the offense. You can fine tune things that are not broken.

Someone mentioned that we are in 3rd in long too often... maybe get Barber in there and mix in his runs with Julius. Romo is great at 3rd and long... but I dont want to have to ask him to do it all the time of not necessary.... could lead to INT's

 

[Doomsday101]

Someone mentioned that we are in 3rd in long too often... maybe get Barber in there and mix in his runs with Julius. Romo is great at 3rd and long... but I dont want to have to ask him to do it all the time of not necessary.... could lead to INT's

Well it appears the coaching staff want to get Barber in on series earlier than we did in the past so I like that. I think what we will see through out the season is both guys getting time early and who ever has the hot hand that day will see more time on the field.

 

[peplaw06]

PLEASE come up with a better argument of why our best and most feared running back is not getting more carries.....

There's no argument. There are facts. The fact is, the coaches -- you know the guys who get paid to make these decisions, and don't have to answer to you -- have decided that right now that is the best course of action. Argue it all you want, but facts is facts kid.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Well it appears the coaching staff want to get Barber in on series earlier than we did in the past so I like that. I think what we will see through out the season is both guys getting time early and who ever has the hot hand that day will see more time on the field.

You mean we are going to make "game adjustments".... whoooa.. I aint used that :laugh1:

Bill had me brainwashed.... no "adjustments"... just beat your man.... win your assignment every time.... then repeats...no..