If the Cowboys traded w/Bears, who do you want at 20?

[Techsass]

Trading down to 20 means the Cowboys should get a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd too. So with that haul I take Barmore at 20, then see if Samuel or Stokes is there in the 2nd. If Barmore isn't there at 20, then take Jamin Davis at 20 then McNeill or Nixon in the 2nd along with Samuel or Stokes. Even Tyson Campbell is an option after the 1st round. The point is, not getting a CB in the 1st isn't the end of the world.

Just as long as they realize that we absolutely, positively cannot go into the season without getting a starting CB. Brown & Lewis are not good enough to be considered as our starting CB.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

If we trade down to 20, give me Barmore or Moehrig.

 

[SFloridaCowboy]

No LB in the first round. He will not oust numbers 54 and 55. We need a CB 1st rounder badly to start as a rookie. There is no good choice to trade down to lose on Surtain and Horn. Farley is off the board. High risk.

 

[gimmesix]

There is growing speculation that the Bears are desperate for a future QB. If a QB falls to the Cowboys at 10 and they decide to make the deal with the Bears, who do you want in that range?

-Corners-Newsome, Farley
-LB-Collins, Davis
-S-Moehrig
-Edge-Phillips, Ojulari
-DT-Barmore
-T-Darrishaw, Jenkins

Yes, it is possible some of these names go ahead of us.

Barmore. The corner class is second-round deep, so I think we can get a starter at 44. Barmore is easily the cream of the DT crop. There are some 1-tech types that can be had later, but he's the top 3-tech.

 

[gimmesix]

If we trade down to 20, give me Barmore or Moehrig.

That would be the other choice because I feel Moehrig is easily the best FS prospect. I do think there are a few who could surprise and be better pros than him, just like at tackle with Barmore, but both of those players are clear-cut favorites at their positions.

 

[gimmesix]

Just as long as they realize that we absolutely, positively cannot go into the season without getting a starting CB. Brown & Lewis are not good enough to be considered as our starting CB.

The one good thing about trading down is that we could possibly end up landing three starting defensive players in the first two rounds, including a starting corner, which we have to have. My preference would be to end up with a stud 3-tech, a starting corner and a starting free safety with those three picks. We can add challengers/future at linebacker and offensive tackle, plus a NT, in the next couple of rounds.

Let's say we landed Barmore, Grant and Melifonwu in the first two rounds. I'd be thrilled with that. Then if we could come back with McNeill, Shelvin or Wilson in the next two rounds, I'd be pretty happy with the draft.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

That would be the other choice because I feel Moehrig is easily the best FS prospect. I do think there are a few who could surprise and be better pros than him, just like at tackle with Barmore, but both of those players are clear-cut favorites at their positions.

That and we need S. I like Barmore, but we need 1T more than we do 3T. Additionally, there are a lot of 1Ts available from round 2 on. S not so much. There are only 3 good safety prospects this draft, so in this trade down, I'd argue a bit more strongly for Moehrig considering our other best options would be Grant and Holland. If those 3 are gone, then it's another year without a quality safety drafted for us.

 

[gimmesix]

That and we need S. I like Barmore, but we need 1T more than we do 3T. Additionally, there are a lot of 1Ts available from round 2 on. S not so much. There are only 3 good safety prospects this draft, so in this trade down, I'd argue a bit more strongly for Moehrig considering our other best options would be Grant and Holland. If those 3 are gone, then it's another year without a quality safety drafted for us.

I don't agree with you on 1-tech vs. 3-tech. 3-tech is the engine that drives this defensive scheme. The two draft picks we are primarily counting on there had a half-sack between them last year. That isn't close to the kind of production you have to have from that position.

We picked up a decent FS in free agency, so I think if we failed to get a future starter this year, we could make it a priority next year. However, I also think one of those safeties you mentioned will be there at 44.

To say this a different way, I think we can have a top-10 defense with Kazee at safety. I do not think we can have a top-10 defense with Gallimore and Hill as our 3-techs, unless both vastly improve, and I don't think our FA signings (Urban, Watkins) did anything to move the needle at that position (although I do think Urban will help our run defense wherever we choose to play him).

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I don't agree with you on 1-tech vs. 3-tech. 3-tech is the engine that drives this defensive scheme. The two draft picks we are primarily counting on there had a half-sack between them last year. That isn't close to the kind of production you have to have from that position.

We picked up a decent FS in free agency, so I think if we failed to get a future starter this year, we could make it a priority next year. However, I also think one of those safeties you mentioned will be there at 44.

To say this a different way, I think we can have a top-10 defense with Kazee at safety. I do not think we can have a top-10 defense with Gallimore and Hill as our 3-techs, unless both vastly improve, and I don't think our FA signings (Urban, Watkins) did anything to move the needle at that position (although I do think Urban will help our run defense wherever we choose to play him).

On one hand, I agree, but on the other hand, I think we have excellent talent at 3T between Gallimore, Urban, and Hill (as you later mentioned). We've got at least two solid players at 3T between Gallimore and Urban with Hill showing development last year. Urban, as you mentioned, is excellent in run stopping. What we don't have is a solid 1T who can just take up blocks. I'd look for McNeil in round 2 or Shelvin in round 3 as my preferred DT option. They're 1Ts that I like a lot.

 

[gimmesix]

On one hand, I agree, but on the other hand, I think we have excellent talent at 3T between Gallimore, Urban, and Hill (as you later mentioned). We've got at least two solid players at 3T between Gallimore and Urban with Hill showing development last year. Urban, as you mentioned, is excellent in run stopping. What we don't have is a solid 1T who can just take up blocks. I'd look for McNeil in round 2 or Shelvin in round 3 as my preferred DT option. They're 1Ts that I like a lot.

Your definition of solid and mine differ. Urban is an excellent run-stopper, but he's not really a 3-tech. The 3-tech needs to be a player who can consistently beat 1-on-1 blocking to get into the backfield and either disrupt the run or get pressure on the QB up the middle. Your belief that "we have excellent talent" there is conjecture at this point.

I'd argue that Antwaun Woods is a better 1-tech than Hill and Gallimore are 3-techs at this point. Urban is different. He's a run-stuffer who may be used on early downs as 3-tech, but the problem with that is if teams pass on those early downs, he's a liability. We may see him as a nose since he's so hard to handle as a run-stopper or we may see him as an LDE on early downs because of his length.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Your definition of solid and mine differ. Urban is an excellent run-stopper, but he's not really a 3-tech. The 3-tech needs to be a player who can consistently beat 1-on-1 blocking to get into the backfield and either disrupt the run or get pressure on the QB up the middle. Your belief that "we have excellent talent" there is conjecture at this point.

I'd argue that Antwaun Woods is a better 1-tech than Hill and Gallimore are 3-techs at this point. Urban is different. He's a run-stuffer who may be used on early downs as 3-tech, but the problem with that is if teams pass on those early downs, he's a liability. We may see him as a nose since he's so hard to handle as a run-stopper or we may see him as an LDE on early downs because of his length.

Well yeah, I would have Woods penciled as a 1T, and Hill and Gallimore as 3Ts. I suppose Urban can be a 1T given his run stopping ability. I think that fits. If that's the plan, then yes, someone like Barmore makes a lot of sense (with the potential of cannibalizing Gallimore). However, I still would prefer McNeil or Shelvin who'd rotate with Urban in that situation. My thinking of 1T is more of someone who can take on multiple blocks and is at least 315 lbs or more, thus able to have enough strength to push back at least two blockers consistently. Urban is a 295 lbs, but, with his height, he could fit at 1T I suppose, but McNeil and Shelving more closely fit my idea of a 1T.

 

[gimmesix]

Well yeah, I would have Woods penciled as a 1T, and Hill and Gallimore as 3Ts. I suppose Urban can be a 1T given his run stopping ability. I think that fits. If that's the plan, then yes, someone like Barmore makes a lot of sense (with the potential of cannibalizing Gallimore). However, I still would prefer McNeil or Shelvin who'd rotate with Urban in that situation. My thinking of 1T is more of someone who can take on multiple blocks and is at least 315 lbs or more, thus able to have enough strength to push back at least two blockers consistently. Urban is a 295 lbs, but, with his height, he could fit at 1T I suppose, but McNeil and Shelving more closely fit my idea of a 1T.

Oh, I still want a 1-tech. I just don't think you have to spend a first or second on the position. Those run-stoppers not considered great pass rushers tend to last a little later. I would prefer McNeil, but he's the only one I think might not make it to 75. Shelvin is a good consolation and I wouldn't mind taking a shot in the fourth on Marvin Wilson, who I feel at worse will be a good 1-tech and at best (if injury was his main issue last year) will bring more to the role than just being a run-stopper.

Last year showed we need to improve both DT positions. I think adding Urban helped, but like with most of our FAs, he's a one-year stopgap at best.

I could buy into taking McNeill with a second-round pick we receive in a trade, though, if we decided to take Moehrig at 20 (based on this scenario), especially if we could get someone like Togiai in the third for 3-tech competition. Maybe Milton Williams. Again, Wilson in the fourth if we missed on those two. I just like Barmore far more than them or the others considered early second-rounders.

Not saying I know Barmore will be better, though, so as long as we do something to address 3-tech in those first few rounds, I'm going to be happier than if we just rely on Gallimore and Hill improving.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Oh, I still want a 1-tech. I just don't think you have to spend a first or second on the position. Those run-stoppers not considered great pass rushers tend to last a little later. I would prefer McNeil, but he's the only one I think might not make it to 75. Shelvin is a good consolation and I wouldn't mind taking a shot in the fourth on Marvin Wilson, who I feel at worse will be a good 1-tech and at best (if injury was his main issue last year) will bring more to the role than just being a run-stopper.

Last year showed we need to improve both DT positions. I think adding Urban helped, but like with most of our FAs, he's a one-year stopgap at best.

In fairness, I had penciled McNeil in at 44 because I don't think we can get him beyond that. However, Shelvin in round 3 or the Florida chap (not Wilson from FSU) in round 4 would be great. I'd be happy with both Barmore and Shelvin, but we've got to address CB and S. If the piece is available (and it would be in a trade down), I'd also like a LB.

 

[gimmesix]

In fairness, I had penciled McNeil in at 44 because I don't think we can get him beyond that. However, Shelvin in round 3 or the Florida chap (not Wilson from FSU) in round 4 would be great. I'd be happy with both Barmore and Shelvin, but we've got to address CB and S. If the piece is available (and it would be in a trade down), I'd also like a LB.

How about Barmore at 20, Grant/Holland at 44, Melifonwu/Samuel at 52 and Shelvin at 75 (might can get him at 99 and take a linebacker or OT at 75)?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

How about Barmore at 20, Grant/Holland at 44, Melifonwu/Samuel at 52 and Shelvin at 75 (might can get him at 99 and take a linebacker or OT at 75)?

I'd happily go with that. And I'd get Adebo with our 3rd 3rd rounder in that trade down. I think he's the best and most underrated CB in the draft.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

If Moehrig is available at 20 I think he is a no-brainer. FS that have range, ball skills, and size are hard to find and you could argue it is the second hardest position to find in the NFL behind QB.

 

[Cowboyny]

Barmore. The corner class is second-round deep, so I think we can get a starter at 44. Barmore is easily the cream of the DT crop. There are some 1-tech types that can be had later, but he's the top 3-tech.

Many of the reputable media scouts have Barmore rated in the 40's; Jeramiah, Pauline, McShay. Dane even said he has a chance to go in rd 2. Personally, I think many are overrating the prospect, he isn't as good as those prior Bama players like Allen or Payne at this stage. Think many are pushing him up due to the lack of talent at the position.

 

[Brooksey]

Many of the reputable media scouts have Barmore rated in the 40's; Jeramiah, Pauline, McShay. Dane even said he has a chance to go in rd 2. Personally, I think many are overrating the prospect, he isn't as good as those prior Bama players like Allen or Payne at this stage. Think many are pushing him up due to the lack of talent at the position.

I like McNeil as a true 1 Tech...Barmore has more pass rush and less anchor, you have to play him at the 3-tech at some point IMO although he would be better than what we have at 1-Tech now.

I draft McNeil at 44 if he checks out and put him along side Hill and Gallimore see what they can do.

 

[Rayman70]

Moehrig isnt very good IMO. His team mate Washington is better. He can be had in round 3 or 4. We can draft other areas of value and need way before safety. NO WAY should we draft a safety in this draftclass in round 1,period.

 

[Cowboyny]

I like McNeil as a true 1 Tech...Barmore has more pass rush and less anchor, you have to play him at the 3-tech at some point IMO although he would be better than what we have at 1-Tech now.

I draft McNeil at 44 if he checks out and put him along side Hill and Gallimore see what they can do.

Love McNeil, see him as the best 1T in the entire class, but worry the Cowboys don't feel the same as he doesn't offer much rush abilities. Think the 3-4 Teams will be more interested as he played 0 T on the college level. If they are going to take another 3T, Milton Williams appears to be their target.