If the deflategate concludes without the Patriots returning the trophy

[Rogah]

Well, that's encouraging, it means you can be reclaimed over to the good side.

Spygate was a technicality that was overblown to the max. But even if you don't accept that view, it was 8 years ago and NE under Belichick has a better record since then than they did before. In both the 7 years before and 7 years after, they have a ridiculously high 70+ winning pct, playoffs every year but 1, 3 SB appearances, etc. Completely obvious that Spygate meant nothing competitively. And NE paid their penalty, a 1st rounder and a heavy fine.

Spygate was totally overblown but at least in that case they did something wrong.

In this case, it is looking more and more like they did absolutely nothing wrong, and yet it made national headlines for a week, and has been the top sports story of the past month.

 

[nathanlt]

Well, that's encouraging, it means you can be reclaimed over to the good side.

Spygate was a technicality that was overblown to the max. But even if you don't accept that view, it was 8 years ago and NE under Belichick has a better record since then than they did before. In both the 7 years before and 7 years after, they have a ridiculously high 70+ winning pct, playoffs every year but 1, 3 SB appearances, etc. Completely obvious that Spygate meant nothing competitively. And NE paid their penalty, a 1st rounder and a heavy fine.

This current fiasco is a complete joke and would have been thrown out by any judge in a court of law. There isn't any basis for any of these claims, it was just a case of the league's procedures not being up to snuff for this sort of comparison between the two teams' psi's. NE is clean and the ones I would be looking at are the Colts. They had possession of the only ball that measured 2 psi too low. All the 1-psi discrepancies are all explainable, there's a long list of reasons how those balls could have been below 12.5 and different than Indy's.

The only reason the 1 psi discrepancy is explainable (that matters) is that Brady prefers a ball underinflated by 1 psi. When it's underflated by 2 psi, he starts yelling on the sideline.

"It was 8 years ago... blah... blah" thanks for the timeline. I expect your defense when the Wells report to come out to be along the lines of "It was 8 weeks ago, what difference, at this point, does it make???"

As for the Patriots, they are the most defiant cheaters in the NFL. They'll never be a chance I respect them again until Brady and Belicheck are gone. Defiant cheaters are scum.

 

[Rogah]

The only reason the 1 psi discrepancy is explainable (that matters) is that Brady prefers a ball underinflated by 1 psi. When it's underflated by 2 psi, he starts yelling on the sideline.

"It was 8 years ago... blah... blah" thanks for the timeline. I expect your defense when the Wells report to come out to be along the lines of "It was 8 weeks ago, what difference, at this point, does it make???"

When the Wells report is released, any response that the level headed people have will be drowned out by your incessant whining about how the league is "covering up" for New England and how they're all really guilty guilty guilty until proven innocent and even thought eh Wells report proved they were innocent, they're still guilty guilty guilty.

As for the Patriots, they are the most defiant cheaters in the NFL. They'll never be a chance I respect them again until Brady and Belicheck are gone. Defiant cheaters are scum.

Jealousy is so unbecoming a Cowboys fans.

You're an embarrassment. Go root for the Eagles since you sound just like their fans do.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The only reason the 1 psi discrepancy is explainable (that matters) is that Brady prefers a ball underinflated by 1 psi. When it's underflated by 2 psi, he starts yelling on the sideline.

"It was 8 years ago... blah... blah" thanks for the timeline. I expect your defense when the Wells report to come out to be along the lines of "It was 8 weeks ago, what difference, at this point, does it make???"

As for the Patriots, they are the most defiant cheaters in the NFL. They'll never be a chance I respect them again until Brady and Belicheck are gone. Defiant cheaters are scum.

What exactly drives this emotion in you? The point about 8 years ago is that Spygate had zero competitive advantage - the last 8 years certainly proves that beyond any doubt. And note the rule at the heart of Spygate (about where & where not you can set up cams) was only in effect from 2006 and they were busted in 2007, so in their SB years of 01-04 there was no rule to break.

Given that they did their penance with a heavy league penalty, and that they did nothing that affected competitiveness on the field, what is there about it that still burns in your gut 8 years later? Hard to grasp.

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

#BANDWIDTHCHEATRIOTAPOLOGISTS

 

[nathanlt]

What?? You think 8 years later, you can pretend that the Patriots cheating, "gave no competitive advantage" ??? Well, why in the world would the Patriots spend all the extra effort to record defensive signals, if they thought it gave them "no competitive advantage" In essence, you're saying that, not only did they cheat, they were wasting their time, and stupid because of it.

It just shows that human nature lets someone deceive themselves, if they repeat it in their heads, over and over, and they believe their own lie. Wake up!!

This tune is one of my favorites by the way.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

What exactly drives this emotion in you? The point about 8 years ago is that Spygate had zero competitive advantage - the last 8 years certainly proves that beyond any doubt. And note the rule at the heart of Spygate (about where & where not you can set up cams) was only in effect from 2006 and they were busted in 2007, so in their SB years of 01-04 there was no rule to break.

Given that they did their penance with a heavy league penalty, and that they did nothing that affected competitiveness on the field, what is there about it that still burns in your gut 8 years later? Hard to grasp.

+1

If I did not know better, I'd say they were from a Colts forum, but they have been venting for a month on a team they play once every four years!

In general, this kind of anger should be reserved for stuff like killing next of kin, or at least a bothersome divisional rival, but we are not even talking about a Cowboy's divisional rival or the Seahawks. So this over the top anger is telegraphing they have a problem - I mean it.

If one can be objective - objective compare the game-changing factor of these actions.

Patriots

• Spied with videotapes on other teams
• Maybe deflated footballs

Cowboys

• Knew that spending a lot more in the 2010 uncapped year could bring a penalty and along with the Commanders did anyway. In other words, Jerry Jones behaved like Bill Belichick is accused of acting except the potential advantage could equate to having Dez and Murray vs letting one or both go. Insignifant? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-cowboys-Commanders-of-millions-in-cap-space/ NFL ruled it was cheating. BTW, Jones is also on the good side of Goodell.
• Jerry Jones engineered a cover up that kept Michael Irvin from going to jail.

  Irvin reportedly attacked McIver with a pair of scissors in a dispute over a haircut in a dormitory at Midwestern State University in Wichita Falls, Tex., where the Cowboys train. McIver needed stitches to repair a two-inch cut on the right side of his neck......Irvin wanted McIver's silence because he faces up to 20 years in prison if he is found to have violated terms of his four-year probation. Irvin pleaded no contest to felony cocaine possession in 1996.

  http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/10/s...s-mciver-was-paid-for-silence-paper-says.html

Expect some Cowboys fans to embarrass this forum by screaming what the Patriots did proven and unproven to be waaaay more damnable that the things mentioned on this post about Dallas.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

What exactly drives

+1

If I did not know better, I'd say they were from a Colts forum, but they have been venting for a month on a team they play once every four years!

In general, this kind of anger should be reserved for stuff like killing next of kin, or at least a bothersome divisional rival, but we are not even talking about a Cowboy's divisional rival or the Seahawks. So this over the top anger is telegraphing they have a problem - I mean it.

If one can be objective - objective compare the game-changing factor of these actions.

Patriots

• Spied with videotapes on other teams
• Maybe deflated footballs

Cowboys

• Knew that spending a lot more in the 2010 uncapped year could bring a penalty and along with the Commanders did anyway. In other words, Jerry Jones behaved like Bill Belichick is accused of acting except the potential advantage could equate to having Dez and Murray vs letting one or both go. Insignifant? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-cowboys-Commanders-of-millions-in-cap-space/ NFL ruled it was cheating. BTW, Jones is also on the good side of Goodell.
• Jerry Jones engineered a cover up that kept Michael Irvin from going to jail. http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/10/s...s-mciver-was-paid-for-silence-paper-says.html

Expect some Cowboys fans to embarrass this forum by screaming what the Patriots did proven and unproven to be waaaay more damnable that the things mentioned on this post about Dallas.

Why are you pretending to be a Dallas fan?

 

[Rogah]

If one can be objective - objective compare the game-changing factor of these actions.

Patriots

• Spied with videotapes on other teams

Anyone who was being objective would also have to take into account that the guy they "spied" on was standing in full view of 80,000 people. Belichick made this point during his Saturday afternoon press conference/physics lecture

Cowboys

• Knew that spending a lot more in the 2010 uncapped year could bring a penalty and along with the Commanders did anyway. In other words, Jerry Jones behaved like Bill Belichick is accused of acting except the potential advantage could equate to having Dez and Murray vs letting one or both go. Insignifant? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-cowboys-Commanders-of-millions-in-cap-space/ NFL ruled it was cheating. BTW, Jones is also on the good side of Goodell.

Expect some Cowboys fans to embarrass this forum by screaming what the Patriots did proven and unproven to be waaaay more damnable that the things mentioned on this post about Dallas.

I defended the Cowboys in other forums about this same point. It really is hilarious how amazingly similar fans of both Dallas and New England are, yet each would deny it to the death.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

What?? You think 8 years later, you can pretend that the Patriots cheating, "gave no competitive advantage" ??? Well, why in the world would the Patriots spend all the extra effort to record defensive signals, if they thought it gave them "no competitive advantage" In essence, you're saying that, not only did they cheat, they were wasting their time, and stupid because of it.

It just shows that human nature lets someone deceive themselves, if they repeat it in their heads, over and over, and they believe their own lie. Wake up!!

This tune is one of my favorites by the way.

But the official record clearly shows that it DIDNT provide a competitive advantage. That's just a fact. Their overall record for 7-8 years on either side of Spygate was essentially the same, actually better since then, with the same number of playoff and SB appearances. How can you say they gained a competitive advantage given that? They are just like a clock every year, year in and year out. 12-4, 14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 9 AFC title games, 6 SB's.

Spygate didn't affect a thing on the field, it was an overblown media obsession and league bungling similar to what we saw in the past month.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

Why are you pretending to be a Dallas fan?

Gotta fix this

Why has the Dallas fans and owners become as hopeless as Cleveland or Washington?

Fixed

First followed the Cowboys since 1966.

I have not changed, but the management and fans have definitely changed for the worst.

Kinda like I've been a charter member of a number of forums, then they are overrun by Johnny-come-lately types, then tell me I don't belong.

The Cowboy's management might be turning around. Or in remission. Now it's the fans...I only question if their hatred for the team most like them during the Landry era was with medication or because they need medication.

I did not leave the Cowboys - the Cowboys are leaving me.

 

[nathanlt]

But the official record clearly shows that it DIDNT provide a competitive advantage. That's just a fact. Their overall record for 7-8 years on either side of Spygate was essentially the same, actually better since then, with the same number of playoff and SB appearances. How can you say they gained a competitive advantage given that? They are just like a clock every year, year in and year out. 12-4, 14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 9 AFC title games, 6 SB's.

Spygate didn't affect a thing on the field, it was an overblown media obsession and league bungling similar to what we saw in the past month.

The Patriots thought it was a competitive advantage, so you're saying they are stupid for spending all their time on it? hmmmm...

 

[BoysFan4ever]

Gotta fix this



Fixed

First followed the Cowboys since 1966.

I have not changed, but the management and fans have definitely changed for the worst.

Kinda like I've been a charter member of a number of forums, then they are overrun by Johnny-come-lately types, then tell me I don't belong.

The Cowboy's management might be turning around. Or in remission. Now it's the fans...I only question if their hatred for the team most like them during the Landry era was with medication or because they need medication.

I did not leave the Cowboys - the Cowboys are leaving me.

Go! If you're a Dallas fan you don't act like one. Jump off the Dallas wagon. PLEASE! It's the opportune time too. You have on this very thread like minded guys & you all could go be the Pats Fans Boys. You know get your own little clique going.

And no more fixing of my posts. I don't need your help.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The Patriots thought it was a competitive advantage, so you're saying they are stupid for spending all their time on it? hmmmm...

It doesn't matter what I thought or what they thought. Their record on the field for 7-8 years before and after Spygate is identical. The proof is in the pudding, it's all that matters here.

 

[Rogah]

People are missing what is far and away the biggest story to come out of this:

Colts G.M. Ryan Grigson claims he informed the league of his concerns the week before the AFCCG. If that is true, then we literally have a situation where the people (person?) at the league office who knew about Indy's concerns created a situation whereby they wanted to catch the Patriots in the act. But in doing so, they allowed the Patriots and Colts to play a full 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game with balls that were suspected to have been tampered with.

Let me say that again to drive the point home: The League Office allowed 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game to be played with balls that they suspected had been tampered with in an attempt to "catch" the Patriots. That right there should outrage people more than any other allegation that has come out of this whole sordid affair. Whether or not the Patriots are innocent does nothing to exonerate the league from this despicable behavior.

 

[nathanlt]

It doesn't matter what I thought or what they thought. Their record on the field for 7-8 years before and after Spygate is identical. The proof is in the pudding, it's all that matters here.

There is a shred of what you say that is worthy of discussion, the bulk of what you are trying to say is, of course, nonsense. I've wondered for a while why the Patriots didn't have a worse record after their cheating was brought to light. They are smart in the draft, Belicheck is a good motivator, etc. However, letting Brady have an advantage of knowing every defense he was going to face, play after play, gave him the confidence he lacked, and was the best training a young quarterback could have.
After the crutch of repulsive cheating was taken away, he retained his experience, and was able to benefit from his cheating. Some might say that he could have done it without cheating, but because he chose to cheat, that "could have" will FOREVER BE HYPOTHETICAL. *

Can you imagine if all young quarterbacks got their first few years of knowing in game defensive calls well before the snap? They would have paid well for that privilege.

But, for a young quarterback, that was a DECIDED COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. or else the P*tri*ts would have never risked the cheating. Motive does matter in determining cheating. They thought, at the time, that it would help them. Whether or not it helped, has NOTHING to do with right and wrong. Comparing performance after cheating leads only to wistful hypotheticals about not cheating, put proves nothing.

 

[nathanlt]

People are missing what is far and away the biggest story to come out of this:

Colts G.M. Ryan Grigson claims he informed the league of his concerns the week before the AFCCG. If that is true, then we literally have a situation where the people (person?) at the league office who knew about Indy's concerns created a situation whereby they wanted to catch the Patriots in the act. But in doing so, they allowed the Patriots and Colts to play a full 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game with balls that were suspected to have been tampered with.

Let me say that again to drive the point home: The League Office allowed 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game to be played with balls that they suspected had been tampered with in an attempt to "catch" the Patriots. That right there should outrage people more than any other allegation that has come out of this whole sordid affair. Whether or not the Patriots are innocent does nothing to exonerate the league from this despicable behavior.

So, it's the league that is the despicable, outrageous, DISGUSTING CHEATERS, not the P*a*t*r*i*o*t*s*, right???

Maybe the league was waiting to see if the Patriots would deflate their footballs during the game, or something like that. Ultimately, evidence is better than allegation.

Truthfully, if the league didn't have a reason to wait, like you proposed, I agree with you, (shocker) that would be outrageous. But who knows when the Patriots were planning to deflate?

 

[Rogah]

So, it's the league that is the despicable, outrageous, DISGUSTING CHEATERS, not the P*a*t*r*i*o*t*s*, right???

I don't see any evidence that the Patriots actually cheated, and if you were being honest, you'd admit that neither do you.

Of course, in your small minded "guilty until proven innocent and even then they're still guilty" world, you just want to see them punished. Not because of any sort of cheating (you don't give a crap about cheating) but because you're insanely jealous of their success.

Maybe the league was waiting to see if the Patriots would deflate their footballs during the game, or something like that. Ultimately, evidence is better than allegation.

That idiotic logic is like saying if a cop has reason to believe a guy is going to kill his wife, he should do nothing, let the guy kill his wife first and then he will have all the evidence he needs.

Truthfully, if the league didn't have a reason to wait, like you proposed, I agree with you, (shocker) that would be outrageous.

And that's why I am starting to believe the whispers that this investigation is more focused on the league itself than the Patriots. There's no evidence the Patriots did anything wrong, but a league executive with an axe to grind potentially ran a ridiculously incompetent sting operation completely on his own.

Are you comfortable with the league setting up a string operation thereby allowing 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game to be played with equipment that they suspect has been tampered with?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

People are missing what is far and away the biggest story to come out of this:

Colts G.M. Ryan Grigson claims he informed the league of his concerns the week before the AFCCG. If that is true, then we literally have a situation where the people (person?) at the league office who knew about Indy's concerns created a situation whereby they wanted to catch the Patriots in the act. But in doing so, they allowed the Patriots and Colts to play a full 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game with balls that were suspected to have been tampered with.

Let me say that again to drive the point home: The League Office allowed 30 minutes of a Conference Championship Game to be played with balls that they suspected had been tampered with in an attempt to "catch" the Patriots. That right there should outrage people more than any other allegation that has come out of this whole sordid affair. Whether or not the Patriots are innocent does nothing to exonerate the league from this despicable behavior.

I gotta say you have a bigger imagination than a 4 yr old kid. And you can spin better than Pelosi, Reid, Biden and that whole bunch combined.

Why would the league suspect that balls that had been checked and certified by a league official, prior to the game, were tampered with?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

But the official record clearly shows that it DIDNT provide a competitive advantage. That's just a fact. Their overall record for 7-8 years on either side of Spygate was essentially the same, actually better since then, with the same number of playoff and SB appearances. How can you say they gained a competitive advantage given that? They are just like a clock every year, year in and year out. 12-4, 14-2, 13-3, 12-4, 9 AFC title games, 6 SB's.

Spygate didn't affect a thing on the field, it was an overblown media obsession and league bungling similar to what we saw in the past month.

Cheating is cheating. The intent to cheat is the problem. Carrying out the cheating is the issue. Not the record.