If this is true, maybe we should go QB in the first

[Hoofbite]

If that's true that 9 of the last 14 1st rounders made the pro bowl with the Cowboys then I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Jerry Jones for all the negative things I have said about him as a drafter. He's better than I thought he was and a lot better than the credit I gave him him.

So I'm sorry Jerry, I'm an emotional fan with a keyboard and time on my hands. But no matter how emotional I get I'll always be a Cowboy fan for life.

So now off the top of my head I'm trying to figure out who these cowboys are that made the pro bowl as 1st rounders. Without checking the internet I'm going with
Dez
Martin
Fredericks
Tyron Smith
Ware
Roy williams, safety
Terence Newman
That's all I can think of. Tell me who I'm missing. Did Mike Jenkins make the pro bowl, Claiborne?

Who am I missing

Spencer.

 

[CCBoy]

Is the Cap Hit the same if Romo is forced to retire?

Remembering back to when the dynasty had contracts that went along with injured and retired players, yes...by memory of what occurred back then.
Eric Bjornson, Michael Irvin, and Charles Haley all left behind large cap hits when they were forced into retirement due to injuries.

 

[CCBoy]

It is absolutely part of the problem, but to say there is not talent there is not correct. There is plenty of talent, and IMO it is not being maximized due to coaching, scheme or not being able to develop them. I can't see how you draft a DE in the second round 2 years in a row, then even think about drafting one again in the first round this year. You haven't given the other two a chance to develop and you're replacing them already? It doesn't make sense. Same with DB, they selected Jones last year and want to take Ramsey, a very similar player, this year to basically play the same position?

I think the coaching staff is getting a pass regarding the problems on defense. There is talent there, they have not developed it, or designed a scheme to maximize the players they have. You can't continue to throw high picks at the problem and expect it to fix itself.

Is that what happened, or did Hardy set poor social examples for Gregory to come up around?

 

[Hoofbite]

...Even if the Cowboys did take a quarterback, the reality is that Romo's not going anywhere for a while: his contract is unmoveable, either via trade, release, or retirement. Thanks to past contractual missteps and desperate maneuverings to clear out cap space, the Cowboys have needed to restructure Romo's deal twice to convert his base salary into signing bonuses, pushing the cap hit for those deals into the future. That leaves Romo with massive cap hits on the Dallas roster, regardless of whether the Cowboys keep him or get rid of him:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/st...16-nfl-draft-quarterback-instant-impact-piece

Unmovable is a bit of an overstatement.

If you look at the cost of holding Romo's dead weight and paying the rookie QB something like $5M/year, the combined cost is still less than the current cost of having Romo on the roster. If he retires next year the combined cap charge for his dead money and the rookie would be $15.7M in 2017 and $13.9M in 2018. The charges for both years would be less than the charge the Bears are scheduled to take for Cutler, or the charge the 49ers are scheduled to take for Kaep.

Currently, Romo's charge for 2017 is $24.7M and it's $25.2 for 2018.

Furthermore, if Dallas can't afford to draft a QB then they can't afford to draft anyone because the contract is going to be the same regardless of who they pick. The rookie pay scale is perfect for grooming a QB. The prior pay scale made it impossible to even think about doing something like this with a pick this high. If Dallas hits on a QB at #4 they would have 2-3 years of good QB play at the cost of $5M/season. This offseason we saw Bradford go for $17.5M per year and Osweiler go for $18.5M per year. RG3 went for $7.5M himself. Even if Tony played 2 years, the Cowboys would have 2 rookie contract years and the 5th option year. Call it $20M for that 5th year. Looking at $30M total for 3 seasons of QB play so $10M/season, on average.

The drafted QB wouldn't even have to be all that good to still come out on top in terms of getting good returns on your dollars spent. The break even point would probably be somewhere around the 20th ranked QB, and 5 years from now it will undoubtedly be lower. $10M/year will be an absolute steal in 5 years for a QB who's just mediocre.

That isn't to say the article isn't right in some aspects. Having Tony retire or get cut will hurt. If Dallas drafts the QB and Tony retires after 2016, there's about $10M/year for the next 2 years that is doing nothing. That's 1 damn good player at any of a number of positions, or 2-3 solid starters. I can't even remember the number of times I saw various posters say that the Seahawks were competitive largely because they didn't have to pay market rate for their QB. Stuff like:

Just wait until they have to pay Wilson, then their team will get broken up.

If that's the case, Dallas has a perfect opportunity to lay the foundation for a dominant team by getting a QB at a price that wouldn't be possible on the market. The ability is dampened relative to Seattle's based not only on draft position, but also on the fact that a player like Richard Sherman wold largely be covered for 2 years if only they had access to Tony's dead money. The point remains, the opportunity still exists.

There may be reasons to pass on a QB, but the cap damn sure isn't one of them. In fact, if all you could get out a QB at #4 was an average QB, you should heavily consider pulling the trigger. You'd essentially buy yourself 5 additional years to find a legitimate star at QB and all the while you'd be able to use more resources at other positions to help build the team. The Chiefs are competitive with Alex Smith. If you tell me I would get nothing less than a bus driver like Alex Smith, I'd take it in a heart beat because it would allow me to build around the QB position so once a more capable player is found everything is in place to contend for a title.

 

[GustafsenNo1BoysFan]

Tony romos has at least 2 more years to be playing with Boys. As long as no injury this season he should be good for playoff birth no?

 

[LocimusPrime]

It would be funny if all these qbs turned out junky like Geno smith, Locker, Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Tyrod Taylor types. That's what some scouting reports rate them at. If that's the case, go ahead and pass.

I hope one of our enemies picks one of them, and goes down as the worse draft pick since Jamarcus Russell or Sam Bradford.

 

[KJJ]

It is absolutely part of the problem, but to say there is not talent there is not correct. There is plenty of talent, and IMO it is not being maximized due to coaching, scheme or not being able to develop them. I can't see how you draft a DE in the second round 2 years in a row, then even think about drafting one again in the first round this year. You haven't given the other two a chance to develop and you're replacing them already? It doesn't make sense. Same with DB, they selected Jones last year and want to take Ramsey, a very similar player, this year to basically play the same position?

I think the coaching staff is getting a pass regarding the problems on defense. There is talent there, they have not developed it, or designed a scheme to maximize the players they have. You can't continue to throw high picks at the problem and expect it to fix itself.

I never said there wasn't any talent but the defense does lack talent. The coaching hasn't been good but once you get past Sean Lee this is not a talented defense. We've made several DC changes over the past few years and changed schemes but we still see the same problems and there hasn't been any improvement. The Cowboys almost have to draft a DE in the first round because the lack of a pass rush is our main issue defensively. Hardy isn't coming back and although DLaw came on last season Gregory did nothing as a rookie and is going to miss the first 4 games in 2016 serving a suspension.

The guy is a pot head and it's only a matter of time before he tests positive again and is given the boot. You certainly can't depend on him and we need pass rushers because one of the reasons DLaw was effective last year was defenses having to contain Hardy. Without Hardy, DLaw's effectiveness can be neutralized so we need another pass rusher that has to be accounted for. You can't just put it entirely on the coaches for the lack of development with some of these players the Cowboys haven't drafted well defensively. When you have a problem you have to continue to throw high picks at it to try and fix it that's how we landed Ware.

You're not going to fix anything taking flyers in the 4th and 5th round unless you get real lucky you have to take your chances with the higher pick. We used a number of high picks on DEs before we hit on Ware. There's no question coaching and scheme is part of the problem with the defense but the players haven't been very good either. When Lee's been healthy he's looked great despite the DC and scheme changes because he's a damn good player but once you get past him the rest are average.

 

[KJJ]

You haven't given the other two a chance to develop and you're replacing them already? It doesn't make sense. Same with DB, they selected Jones last year and want to take Ramsey, a very similar player, this year to basically play the same position?

Ramsey is rated much higher than Jones and with reports saying the Cowboys are going to move Jones to safety they need a corner. What makes me nervous about Ramsey is no one seems to know what if he's a safety or a corner? It would make me nervous drafting a player in the top 5 that doesn't excel at one position. If we draft Ramsey and find out he's a better safety than corner then we have a dilemma because most feel Jones is a better safety than corner. I like to keep moving a player around you have to settle on a position or they can lose their confidence.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

Ramsey is rated much higher than Jones and with reports saying the Cowboys are going to move Jones to safety they need a corner. What makes me nervous about Ramsey is no one seems to know what if he's a safety or a corner? It would make me nervous drafting a player in the top 5 that doesn't excel at one position. If we draft Ramsey and find out he's a better safety than corner then we have a dilemma because most feel Jones is a better safety than corner. I like to keep moving a player around you have to settle on a position or they can lose their confidence.

https://realfootballnetwork.com/2016/03/16/podcast-kirwan-robinson-on-dbs/

 

[KJJ]

https://realfootballnetwork.com/2016/03/16/podcast-kirwan-robinson-on-dbs/

I don't want to spend 20 minutes listening to a pod cast of someones opinion of a player.

 

[plymkr]

Spencer.

Spencer and Jenkins. I remembered drafting Jenkins but wasn't sure of pro bowl. For some reason I completely forgot about Spencer's existence. Forgot about drafting him, him having the one good year, all of it.

Thanks guys

 

[plymkr]

I'm sorry to tell you but the "golden cock" was not retained this year and is a free agent.

Out of pure curiosity, who is the "golden cock"? I feel like I'm missing out on this discussion without this knowledge.

 

[CCBoy]

Unmovable is a bit of an overstatement.

If you look at the cost of holding Romo's dead weight and paying the rookie QB something like $5M/year, the combined cost is still less than the current cost of having Romo on the roster. If he retires next year the combined cap charge for his dead money and the rookie would be $15.7M in 2017 and $13.9M in 2018. The charges for both years would be less than the charge the Bears are scheduled to take for Cutler, or the charge the 49ers are scheduled to take for Kaep.

Currently, Romo's charge for 2017 is $24.7M and it's $25.2 for 2018.

Furthermore, if Dallas can't afford to draft a QB then they can't afford to draft anyone because the contract is going to be the same regardless of who they pick. The rookie pay scale is perfect for grooming a QB. The prior pay scale made it impossible to even think about doing something like this with a pick this high. If Dallas hits on a QB at #4 they would have 2-3 years of good QB play at the cost of $5M/season. This offseason we saw Bradford go for $17.5M per year and Osweiler go for $18.5M per year. RG3 went for $7.5M himself. Even if Tony played 2 years, the Cowboys would have 2 rookie contract years and the 5th option year. Call it $20M for that 5th year. Looking at $30M total for 3 seasons of QB play so $10M/season, on average.

The drafted QB wouldn't even have to be all that good to still come out on top in terms of getting good returns on your dollars spent. The break even point would probably be somewhere around the 20th ranked QB, and 5 years from now it will undoubtedly be lower. $10M/year will be an absolute steal in 5 years for a QB who's just mediocre.

That isn't to say the article isn't right in some aspects. Having Tony retire or get cut will hurt. If Dallas drafts the QB and Tony retires after 2016, there's about $10M/year for the next 2 years that is doing nothing. That's 1 damn good player at any of a number of positions, or 2-3 solid starters. I can't even remember the number of times I saw various posters say that the Seahawks were competitive largely because they didn't have to pay market rate for their QB. Stuff like:

​

If that's the case, Dallas has a perfect opportunity to lay the foundation for a dominant team by getting a QB at a price that wouldn't be possible on the market. The ability is dampened relative to Seattle's based not only on draft position, but also on the fact that a player like Richard Sherman wold largely be covered for 2 years if only they had access to Tony's dead money. The point remains, the opportunity still exists.

There may be reasons to pass on a QB, but the cap damn sure isn't one of them. In fact, if all you could get out a QB at #4 was an average QB, you should heavily consider pulling the trigger. You'd essentially buy yourself 5 additional years to find a legitimate star at QB and all the while you'd be able to use more resources at other positions to help build the team. The Chiefs are competitive with Alex Smith. If you tell me I would get nothing less than a bus driver like Alex Smith, I'd take it in a heart beat because it would allow me to build around the QB position so once a more capable player is found everything is in place to contend for a title.

I see what was done there...oh, it makes a difference when one raises his pinkie finger when waving a wand...

His initial contract has been expanded twice, and the total amounts due for the next three seasons are:

2016 $20.8
2017 $24.7
2018 $25.2

Those amounts are on the book already. as are a total cap amount of $146.9 for the year 2017. How one attempts to wave a magical wand around, doesn't remove the simple fact that the Dallas Cowboys plan on Tony being the team's undisputed leader for EVERY ONE OF THE THREE YEARS. Break up those amounts as one wishes, but don't also assume they go away when one cross compares to actual money on position. Sorry, those numbers will still put one's butt into bankruptcy court at some level.

That amount is already figured into a consideration of managing future come due contracts and maintaining roster strengths. But in considerations of more than the quarterback position. What are YOU going to do when Tony Romo is STILL around in 2018? But a drafted quarterback...not a defensive end, or cornerback, or running back, and the cap hit then is $5 million a year as well.

The QB positional group will then be well over $26 million for three quarterbacks.

Simple fact of economics, to maintain a NFL team, a percentage of cap money has to be spread around all positional groups. Outside rushers, cornerbacks, top receivers, and high performance offensive linemen, all demand rather large amounts on the cap.



I know that you are looking at the positive sides to taking what is considered a potential franchise quarterback, and reshuffling current status around. I have to agree, that as a fan, looks pretty tastey...but in a limited economy, I have to also consider long termed budget projections as well.

Who wouldn't like the bench that supported the likes of a Wentz or Goss? Shoot, no one...but look a little deeper as well. Once Rogers did push Farve out of the picture, was the status of the entire team looked at as well? That team hit a cap wall after about five seasons into that series of progressions. Have they re-established a dominating receiver corp the past season? Why not?

The were having to rob Peter to pay Paul...and bankruptcy hit the courts on cap hits.

Your snap shot for a progression of a single quarterback is true...funny although. It doesn't reincorporate a realistic picture of Tony sticking it out all the way to 2018, and the Cowboys being competitive playoff levels that only he can provide in this and probably the next two seasons as well. That is the course that the team is headed towards, and if not what the team intended, despite being responsible in free agency the past three seasons, then the team has point blank, been lying to it's fans and players. That one would then fall upon Jerry.

Not upon the likes of you or me for facts involved. If Dallas doesn't add change makers to DE, DT, CB, and a future RB...the circus won't reach the next town. It will have to then face squaring with creditors...the fans and players. It's what goes on upon the carpet now. In the past three seasons, the defenses fielded have been among the very worst in Cowboys history. Fix it, or the Cowboys need to just shut up and take their blows.

 

[LittleD]

Out of pure curiosity, who is the "golden cock"? I feel like I'm missing out on this discussion without this knowledge.

Let me help you find out who it is... It is a Defensive Tackle nicknamed "golden cock" by none other than Marinelli himself. Just a very little digging and
you will have the answer for yourself.

 

[Alexander]

If this has been linked before, my apologies.

http://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/201...y-key-positions-usually-worth-drafting-early/

Best to note, much of our recent draft "success" is by taking tackles, usually the better ones. In other words, we have been good at taking players at the easiest position to do so.

When you start taking CBs, then the degree of difficulty sharpens dramatically. And as we should have learned from Claiborne, you can get burned.

 

[jnday]

We need defense 3 of the first 4 picks. We need serious talent infusion there.

The only strength this team has is the offensive line. That is it. I agree that the defense needs help, I am all for drafting a QB at 4, and for drafting Henry if he is available to at least have one side of the ball secure. If the team can run the ball well, it helps the defense as much as it helps the offense because it keeps the defense off the field. There is not an elite pass rusher in this draft from what I have read. Many fans want Ramsey and I have read all the hype about him being the best defensive player in the draft. It also states that he is a DB. He is not the best corner or safety, but because of this ability to play both , he is rated as the best overall DB. I don't want a player that is not even the best at his position at 4. It really is a weak draft class in many ways. If Jacks knee wasn't causing concerns and Sean Lee and Jacks didn't both play the same position , he would be a good pick. I really don't care what they do if a QB is not rated high enough to draft at 4.

 

[big dog cowboy]

If we draft Ramsey and find out he's a better safety than corner then we have a dilemma because most feel Jones is a better safety than corner.

Why would we have a dilemma? Can't Ramsey and Jones be our starting safeties?

 

[jnday]

The truth is the top 2016 QBs could be out performed by the 2nd and 3rd tier.

While pure physical traits dictate QB drafts in most years, there are countless factors for Pro success. Many intangibles make NFL passers elite, but in the 2016 Draft the attributes are available for realistic development as starting QBs well into the 2nd day. Could be looking back very soon asking why Hackenberg, Jones and Cook all with NFL arms were blatantly disregarded as spoofs, while Goff and Wentz were uber-hyped into the top 10.

The top two QBs have been over evaluated and force fed up Draft boards this year by the so-called experts.

There are legit reasons why Hackenburg, Jones and Cook are rated where they are. Wentz or Goff doesn't have the concerns that the others have and have tons of ability . In the case of Hackenburg, he was great under one coach and stunk under another. Cook has character concern and Jones has questions about his passing and pro ability. Can you name a big concern about Goff or Wentz? Goff had little talent around him but he made them better. Wentz played at a lower level of competition but he won and performed just as a superior talent should.

 

[KJJ]

Why would we have a dilemma? Can't Ramsey and Jones be our starting safeties?

They could but do you really want to use the 4th overall pick on a safety when you just used a #1 on a player who's slotted to play safety in 2016? Would hate to be drafting another safety with the 4th overall pick when we have a bigger need at corner. It's been mixed on Ramsey some seem to think he'll make a better safety than corner while others seem to think he's a corner. No one really seems to know for sure what he is and if the Cowboys were to select him they would benefit much more with him playing corner. Bosa may end up being the pick a pass rush would help our secondary but there's pot concerns with him after he tested positive at the start of the 2015 college season. Everything seems to be pointing to the Cowboys trading down I don't think they feel totally comfortable with any of the players in the top 5.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Can you name a big concern about Goff or Wentz?

You mean Alex "Goff" Smith and Patrick "Wentz" Ramsey?