If this is true, maybe we should go QB in the first

[plymkr]

If that's true that 9 of the last 14 1st rounders made the pro bowl with the Cowboys then I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Jerry Jones for all the negative things I have said about him as a drafter. He's better than I thought he was and a lot better than the credit I gave him him.

So I'm sorry Jerry, I'm an emotional fan with a keyboard and time on my hands. But no matter how emotional I get I'll always be a Cowboy fan for life.

So now off the top of my head I'm trying to figure out who these cowboys are that made the pro bowl as 1st rounders. Without checking the internet I'm going with
Dez
Martin
Fredericks
Tyron Smith
Ware
Roy williams, safety
Terence Newman
That's all I can think of. Tell me who I'm missing. Did Mike Jenkins make the pro bowl, Claiborne?

Who am I missing

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It us just your opinion and a laughable one at that

Plenty of reputable evaluators have praised Wentz and Goff as having the talent to be franchise QBs

Good Luck.

 

[Beast_from_East]

You actually miss the tealeaves of the plan for the Cowboys that is being worked as we speak on the keyboards. Jerry has invested lots of money and draft capital
in Romo, OL, Dez, Witten so that they have a shot over the next 2-3 years to win another SB. Jerry is not looking long term because at the end of the 3 years he
will have to dump salaries, enter cap hell, have a rebuilding year and hopefully draft in the top 5 again. It will be in that time that the Cowboys will hopefully draft
their next franchise QB. They are not likely to invest a #4 on a QB who makes 5-7mil per year holding a clipboard. More likely that they draft a backup QB in
the 3-5th round that might learn to win a game or two if Romo gets hurt again.

The scenario you just laid out does not seem like the scenario the Cowboys are following.

If the Cowboys are loading up for a 2-3 year run and then blowing it all up, why have they sat on their hands in free agency? Teams that load up for a 2-3 year run would sign as many free agents as they can to give the team the best chance to win right now. Contrary to that, the Cowboys have done the opposite. They have been very frugal in free agency, signed players to team friendly contracts, and have concentrated on building through the draft. They have used about 6 or 7 of their pre-draft visits on QBs that will most likely go in the first 2 rounds of the draft, not in the 3-5 round area you are describing.

The team also has cut ties with Hardy, even though pass rush is a huge weakness on the team (again, counter-intuitive if the plan is to win now), and both Jerry and Stephen have made comments that free agency is where you get backups, the draft is where you get starters.

So the team does not seem to be following your scenario of a 2-3 year run and then blow it up, they actually are managing the salary cap very well and by getting starters through the draft instead of free agency, they will continue to keep their salary structure reasonable. Thus, there will be no cap hell coming up, so there will be no mass dumping of salaries. Carr is in the last year of his contract, and other than him nobody else on the team is grossly overpaid. Additionally, most of the resignings this offseason have been on 1 and 2 year deals, not long term cap killing deals.

Just saying that the scenario you are describing does not match the reality of what is going on at Valley Ranch.

 

[BigStar]

We don't have the cap space right now to sign Fred. He will likely want between 45-50mil to sign a long term deal. We need about 7mil to sign all our draft picks this
year and account for the UDFA's and the top 53 players salaries and injury settlements. Now if they cut or restructure someone, we might be able to lure him.

Like cutting Mr. Carr and Mr. Church after the draft? Hell, cut the "Golden Cock" to clear nearly 1M right now I think he would resign if we are fair and he sees the franchise going in an upward direction; having a potential franchise QB waiting in the wings would help this angle as well.

 

[LittleD]

Like cutting Mr. Carr and Mr. Church after the draft? Hell, cut the "Golden Cock" to clear nearly 1M right now I think he would resign if we are fair and he sees the franchise going in an upward direction; having a potential franchise QB waiting in the wings would help this angle as well.

I'm sorry to tell you but the "golden cock" was not retained this year and is a free agent.

 

[LittleD]

The scenario you just laid out does not seem like the scenario the Cowboys are following.

If the Cowboys are loading up for a 2-3 year run and then blowing it all up, why have they sat on their hands in free agency? Teams that load up for a 2-3 year run would sign as many free agents as they can to give the team the best chance to win right now. Contrary to that, the Cowboys have done the opposite. They have been very frugal in free agency, signed players to team friendly contracts, and have concentrated on building through the draft. They have used about 6 or 7 of their pre-draft visits on QBs that will most likely go in the first 2 rounds of the draft, not in the 3-5 round area you are describing.

The team also has cut ties with Hardy, even though pass rush is a huge weakness on the team (again, counter-intuitive if the plan is to win now), and both Jerry and Stephen have made comments that free agency is where you get backups, the draft is where you get starters.

So the team does not seem to be following your scenario of a 2-3 year run and then blow it up, they actually are managing the salary cap very well and by getting starters through the draft instead of free agency, they will continue to keep their salary structure reasonable. Thus, there will be no cap hell coming up, so there will be no mass dumping of salaries. Carr is in the last year of his contract, and other than him nobody else on the team is grossly overpaid. Additionally, most of the resignings this offseason have been on 1 and 2 year deals, not long term cap killing deals.
Just saying that the scenario you are describing does not match the reality of what is going on at Valley Ranch.

They really don't have unlimited money left. That is unless you want to restructure Romo again or Dez. I think they are doing the best they can
and trying to plan to at least keep the OL intact for a few years. No team can have "all pros" at every position. Jerry thinks if Romo and Dez can
stay healthy they have a good chance this year.

 

[BigStar]

I'm sorry to tell you but the "golden cock" was not retained this year and is a free agent.

Really? Damn, whiff on my part. Thanks for info though even after trying to be a jerk though think we can keep the OL in tact if we are smart about it. What do you have like integrity or something? Kudos

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

The truth is the top 2016 QBs could be out performed by the 2nd and 3rd tier.

While pure physical traits dictate QB drafts in most years, there are countless factors for Pro success. Many intangibles make NFL passers elite, but in the 2016 Draft the attributes are available for realistic development as starting QBs well into the 2nd day. Could be looking back very soon asking why Hackenberg, Jones and Cook all with NFL arms were blatantly disregarded as spoofs, while Goff and Wentz were uber-hyped into the top 10.

The top two QBs have been over evaluated and force fed up Draft boards this year by the so-called experts.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Let's look at this:

Claiborne, top 10 pick
Carr, top price FA agent signing
Scandrick, your best CB fith round pick
Jones, 1st round pick
Church, UDFA needs replacement
Lee, 2nd round pick
McClain, top 10 pick
Lawernce, 2nd round pick
Crawford, 3rd round, high contract guy
Thornton, prize FA signing this off season
Gregory, top 5 talent take in the 2nd round last year

There is talent on defense, enough to have a pretty decent defense. Has the coaching put them in postion to excel? Well that's debatable. I do not think that this defense is as bad as many make it out to be. I think that they're not put in postion to win, to to play to the palyers strengths, but there is lots of talent.

Defense wasnt why we were 4-12 by a long shot

 

[KJJ]

Defense wasnt why we were 4-12 by a long shot

No, but it was clearly part of the problem which is why our offense never saw the field in two OT games last season. The defense has been an ongoing problem for a number of years and we can forget about ever going deep in the playoffs until it becomes significantly better. We have problems upfront and with the pass rush. We've had serious issues with the secondary for more than a decade.

In 2014 we had an offense that was clearly championship caliber with arguably the top OL in the league, a dynamic #1 receiver and 2 MVP candidates at QB and RB and we couldn't get past the second round of the playoffs because of the defense.

 

[rpntex]

The youtube podcaster who created the videos I posted (Matt Waldman) gets featured on draftbreakdown.com. He probably does the most in depth prospect film breakdowns freely available around, he really breaks plays down with pretty insightful analysis.

What you are saying about Lynch seems to assume Goff doesn't have as much room for improvement. He has significant room for improvement and has a lot of physical projection. Being the most NFL ready doesn't automatically assume less projection or ceiling. Lynch for me is only rated for his size, arm and his passable athleticism at 6'7. I don't particularly see the high level intelligence there at all. Any QB taken is about the future, not right now, but the only question that should be asked in regards to Goff's ability to help straight away is whether it is possible he could be better than our current backup. It's a good possibility.

I don't like any of the non QB prospects rated at the top of this draft, I've even gone off Ramsey. Give me a potential future franchise, or even well above avg QB at 4, over some athletic utility guys in Ramsey and Jack with confusion about what their best position is and health concerns in the latter. Get those positions in later rounds. Guys at the top of the draft shouldn't have those question marks when you are looking at the positions those two play. They should have a clear position and have elite potential there, none of this jack of many trades stuff. The only other guy that looks odds on to be elite at a valuable position is Tunsil, and we don't need him.

Goff or Wentz or trade down.

The thought that Lynch has the highest ceiling is not mine and mine alone. Nor is there any implication that just because Lynch has a high ceiling means Goff doesn't. In reports I've read, Lynch's physical tools and athleticism is what will eventually separate him from both Goff and (to a lesser degree) Wentz. Of course, only time will tell.

I do agree with your last statement. Unless something has really changed as of late, #4 is too rich to take Lynch. He's going to be available later in the first, so I would definitely pursue a trade back to pick up value and still get our QB.

In the end, I would be very happy with any of the three. I'd be happiest with Lynch, however, followed by Wentz, then Goff.

 

[rpntex]

You actually miss the tealeaves of the plan for the Cowboys that is being worked as we speak on the keyboards. Jerry has invested lots of money and draft capital
in Romo, OL, Dez, Witten so that they have a shot over the next 2-3 years to win another SB. Jerry is not looking long term because at the end of the 3 years he
will have to dump salaries, enter cap hell, have a rebuilding year and hopefully draft in the top 5 again. It will be in that time that the Cowboys will hopefully draft
their next franchise QB. They are not likely to invest a #4 on a QB who makes 5-7mil per year holding a clipboard. More likely that they draft a backup QB in
the 3-5th round that might learn to win a game or two if Romo gets hurt again.

In today's NFL, you can compete of you have a top-notch QB. I think the rebuilding process (should it actually come to pass) will be much easier, and happen much faster, if the QB is already in place. '11-13 under Romo was a good example of that. While they were playoff-dry years, It can argued that each of those teams had no business winning 8 games, and the only reason they weren't 5-11 or 6-10 was Tony Romo.

Take the QB when you get the chance. If Dallas feels any of them have the potential to be a "franchise" level QB, they can't afford to not take one.

 

[Dundalis]

The thought that Lynch has the highest ceiling is not mine and mine alone. Nor is there any implication that just because Lynch has a high ceiling means Goff doesn't. In reports I've read, Lynch's physical tools and athleticism is what will eventually separate him from both Goff and (to a lesser degree) Wentz. Of course, only time will tell.

I do agree with your last statement. Unless something has really changed as of late, #4 is too rich to take Lynch. He's going to be available later in the first, so I would definitely pursue a trade back to pick up value and still get our QB.

In the end, I would be very happy with any of the three. I'd be happiest with Lynch, however, followed by Wentz, then Goff.

Not sure how Lynch's athleticism will separate him from Wentz who is a clearly superior athlete. If that is the attribute that will separate these three then Wentz should be the pick. Goff's athletic measurables, including his arm strength are pretty consistently underrated. He's also the one of the three with significant room to add weight to his frame and get a lot bigger and stronger.

For me athleticism comes a distant second to what is between the ears. If that brain isn't smart enough, tough enough etc, all the athleticism in the world won't do any good. All these guys have warts that need to be coached out of them, but I think Goff has the least, while also seeming to be the most advanced in the attributes that IMO are the most important for a successful NFL QB.

 

[CCBoy]

...Even if the Cowboys did take a quarterback, the reality is that Romo's not going anywhere for a while: his contract is unmoveable, either via trade, release, or retirement. Thanks to past contractual missteps and desperate maneuverings to clear out cap space, the Cowboys have needed to restructure Romo's deal twice to convert his base salary into signing bonuses, pushing the cap hit for those deals into the future. That leaves Romo with massive cap hits on the Dallas roster, regardless of whether the Cowboys keep him or get rid of him:

CAP-HIT-ROMO ONROSTER
ROMO/TRADED/RELEASED/RETIRED/
ROMO RELEASED ASPOST-JUNE 1 CUT
2016/$20.8m/$31.9m/$12.3m
2017/$24.7m/$19.6m/$10.7m
2018/$25.2m/$8.9m/$5.7m

If the Cowboys cut Romo as a post-June 1 release, they would absorb the remaining dead money on their cap the following year; in other words, if the Cowboys cut Romo as a post-June 1 release before the 2017 season, they would owe $10.7 million on their cap in 2017 and the other $8.9 million in 2018. Dallas already has $146.9 million on their cap in 2017, the second-highest figure in football behind Philadelphia, so leaving even $12.7 million in dead money on their cap would be disastrous.

In reality, the earliest the Cowboys can move on from Romo -- assuming that they don't restructure his deal again -- is 2018. They could turn Romo into the most expensive backup QB in the history of pro football, but that's probably not going to happen, either. So if the Cowboys draft a passer, you have to assume that he'll spend a minimum of two seasons serving as a backup and injury replacement before stepping in as the full-time starter in 2018...


http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/st...16-nfl-draft-quarterback-instant-impact-piece

 

[LittleD]

In today's NFL, you can compete of you have a top-notch QB. I think the rebuilding process (should it actually come to pass) will be much easier, and happen much faster, if the QB is already in place. '11-13 under Romo was a good example of that. While they were playoff-dry years, It can argued that each of those teams had no business winning 8 games, and the only reason they weren't 5-11 or 6-10 was Tony Romo.

Take the QB when you get the chance. If Dallas feels any of them have the potential to be a "franchise" level QB, they can't afford to not take one.

I understand that's what you think and feel and many on the zone feel the same way. Jerry does not play poker that way. He goes all in now and lets
the chips fall where they may. Many on the zone disagree with that approach but that is how Jerry and the Cowboys have operated for over a decade now.

 

[vicjagger]

Very true as to the need for a QB in round 1. As true as the stubble on ol' Merle Haggard's face.
Say, mates, is Merle a usual name for a man?

It's a very common name for wizards.

 

[BigStar]

If that's true that 9 of the last 14 1st rounders made the pro bowl with the Cowboys then I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Jerry Jones for all the negative things I have said about him as a drafter. He's better than I thought he was and a lot better than the credit I gave him him.

So I'm sorry Jerry, I'm an emotional fan with a keyboard and time on my hands. But no matter how emotional I get I'll always be a Cowboy fan for life.

So now off the top of my head I'm trying to figure out who these cowboys are that made the pro bowl as 1st rounders. Without checking the internet I'm going with
Dez
Martin
Fredericks
Tyron Smith
Ware
Roy williams, safety
Terence Newman
That's all I can think of. Tell me who I'm missing. Did Mike Jenkins make the pro bowl, Claiborne?

Who am I missing

Jenkins made it as an alternate and tanked the following season and wanna say Spencer made it one year as well (not sure if alt or not) . But your point is valid, they are; absent the recent OL/Dez (past 1st round successes are exaggerated) and made the Pro Bowl as alternates. Damn, I miss Roy's first 2 seasons...

 

[Frosty]

...Even if the Cowboys did take a quarterback, the reality is that Romo's not going anywhere for a while: his contract is unmoveable, either via trade, release, or retirement. Thanks to past contractual missteps and desperate maneuverings to clear out cap space, the Cowboys have needed to restructure Romo's deal twice to convert his base salary into signing bonuses, pushing the cap hit for those deals into the future. That leaves Romo with massive cap hits on the Dallas roster, regardless of whether the Cowboys keep him or get rid of him:

CAP-HIT-ROMO ONROSTER
ROMO/TRADED/RELEASED/RETIRED/
ROMO RELEASED ASPOST-JUNE 1 CUT
2016/$20.8m/$31.9m/$12.3m
2017/$24.7m/$19.6m/$10.7m
2018/$25.2m/$8.9m/$5.7m

If the Cowboys cut Romo as a post-June 1 release, they would absorb the remaining dead money on their cap the following year; in other words, if the Cowboys cut Romo as a post-June 1 release before the 2017 season, they would owe $10.7 million on their cap in 2017 and the other $8.9 million in 2018. Dallas already has $146.9 million on their cap in 2017, the second-highest figure in football behind Philadelphia, so leaving even $12.7 million in dead money on their cap would be disastrous.

In reality, the earliest the Cowboys can move on from Romo -- assuming that they don't restructure his deal again -- is 2018. They could turn Romo into the most expensive backup QB in the history of pro football, but that's probably not going to happen, either. So if the Cowboys draft a passer, you have to assume that he'll spend a minimum of two seasons serving as a backup and injury replacement before stepping in as the full-time starter in 2018...


http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/st...16-nfl-draft-quarterback-instant-impact-piece

Is the Cap Hit the same if Romo is forced to retire?

 

[USMarineVet]

It seems like a lot of mock drafts have us taking Bosa at 4.

That's not very exciting.

True. But how often does that pan out?

 

[Mr Cowboy]

No, but it was clearly part of the problem which is why our offense never saw the field in two OT games last season. The defense has been an ongoing problem for a number of years and we can forget about ever going deep in the playoffs until it becomes significantly better. We have problems upfront and with the pass rush. We've had serious issues with the secondary for more than a decade.

In 2014 we had an offense that was clearly championship caliber with arguably the top OL in the league, a dynamic #1 receiver and 2 MVP candidates at QB and RB and we couldn't get past the second round of the playoffs because of the defense.

It is absolutely part of the problem, but to say there is not talent there is not correct. There is plenty of talent, and IMO it is not being maximized due to coaching, scheme or not being able to develop them. I can't see how you draft a DE in the second round 2 years in a row, then even think about drafting one again in the first round this year. You haven't given the other two a chance to develop and you're replacing them already? It doesn't make sense. Same with DB, they selected Jones last year and want to take Ramsey, a very similar player, this year to basically play the same position?

I think the coaching staff is getting a pass regarding the problems on defense. There is talent there, they have not developed it, or designed a scheme to maximize the players they have. You can't continue to throw high picks at the problem and expect it to fix itself.