If you were a coach and could hire Bill Parcells or Wade Phillips as DC...

[theogt]

Where was Ellis in that game, theogt? Was he injuried, or are you saying that Parcells did not use him in that game?

Honest question...

Injured.

 

[5Stars]

Injured.

What happened? I cannot recall?

He was not activated?

 

[theogt]

What happened? I cannot recall?

He was not activated?

He tore his achilles the week before against Arizona.

 

[5Stars]

He tore his achilles the week before against Arizona.

You are right...I went to the stats page on the official Dallas Cowboys and he was not listed on defense during that game...

 

[theogt]

You are right...I went to the stats page on the official Dallas Cowboys and he was not listed on defense during that game...

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

 

[5Stars]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:



you!!

 

[jobberone]

No, it didn't.

Because it didn't work.

You can't just chunk out an entire 1/3 of the season and say well, the rest of the games were nice, so it was a pretty good defense.

What explains the passrush in the Colts game? Ellis wasn't there. The players commented on the different scheme we ran (after numerous fans commented on it) and that worked -- without Ellis. Unfortunately, we didn't go back to that.

You mean, you can argue that teams figured out how to completely dismantle the defense.

No team, no defense, no scheme, no coach will have a decent passrush playing the way that Parcells did.

Your counter is bunk. Ellis wasn't in that game.

You can't guarantee anything. Would the team, in all likelihood, have been better off with a less conservative scheme? Well, DUHHH!!!!

You're conflating two issues. Did Bill rebuild this team? Of course he did. Only an idiot would refuse to see that. But we're not talking about GM Bill -- we're talking about DC Bill. I'll take the former and not the latter, please.

Ok. We're replacing a 32 year old, injured player. What's your point?

I didn't say safety was the first addressed or anything else about the safety situation. You must be referring to someone else.

This is the greatest thing about this season. We get to settle the "scheme" argument. We get to see what an aggressive scheme can do with the same talent. It's a football nerd's wet dream.

Glad we can agree.

Probably, yes.

Not sure, but again you're conflating two separate issues. This isn't about Bill as a GM. This is about Bill as a DC. They're two totally separate positions.

You're right. I was wrong about Ellis playing in that game. I was thinking he got hurt that game.

I typed responses to your post then decided to not post them. I'm not going to get into a multipage argument with you. So I'll just say we disagree and let it go at that. Other than you're right about Ellis.

 

[theogt]

You're right. I was wrong about Ellis playing in that game. I was thinking he got hurt that game.

I typed responses to your post then decided to not post them. I'm not going to get into a multipage argument with you. So I'll just say we disagree and let it go at that. Other than you're right about Ellis.

Oh it wouldnt take multiple pages for me to convince you I'm right.

 

[superpunk]

You're right. I was wrong about Ellis playing in that game. I was thinking he got hurt that game.

I typed responses to your post then decided to not post them. I'm not going to get into a multipage argument with you. So I'll just say we disagree and let it go at that. Other than you're right about Ellis.

You're a man of rare restraint.

One thing that's interesting to notice, and I'm not sure where this fits in, although if I get some time and some video capture software I might go to it - is that we played New Orleans the exact same way we played Indy. We did the same things with Ware, he had to make the same decisions where Indy would flank out a back/TE/WR and force Ware out, forcing him to go pass or rush. If you watch them back to back, the similarities in attack strategy were exactly the same.

It's amazing what good execution will do for your defense.

It's also amazing that it's never "Zimmer's defense never worked here." Conveniently forgotten in disdain for Bill, is who was actually working up our defensive plans for the week. Which is always generally countered with "Bill wouldn't let Zimmer run what he wanted to - he suffocated him, just like he did Payton" (who, coincidentally heaps praise upon Parcells for his development as a coach DESPITE the suffocation). Interestingly, these are the same people who claim Bill is nothing without Bellichick - whom he apparently wasn't suffocating?

I don't know - it all gets so confusing once you pass into irrationality. I get mixed up. Parcells owes all his credit to his assistants, who he won't allow to coach. It makes more sense if you're drinking, so raise a glass.

Wade is likely a better X's and O's guy. I don't have any knowledge of Bill as a defensive coordinator. But I really like what Wade does. I really hope that he's gonna be the right guy at the right time in Dallas.

 

[DallasEast]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I never knew Bob Barker was secretly Darth Vader...

 

[Seven]

I just have to laugh...

Pull your pants up..............better?

I'm taking the Tomson75 angle here.

 

[jobberone]

You're a man of rare restraint.

One thing that's interesting to notice, and I'm not sure where this fits in, although if I get some time and some video capture software I might go to it - is that we played New Orleans the exact same way we played Indy. We did the same things with Ware, he had to make the same decisions where Indy would flank out a back/TE/WR and force Ware out, forcing him to go pass or rush. If you watch them back to back, the similarities in attack strategy were exactly the same.

It's amazing what good execution will do for your defense.

It's also amazing that it's never "Zimmer's defense never worked here." Conveniently forgotten in disdain for Bill, is who was actually working up our defensive plans for the week. Which is always generally countered with "Bill wouldn't let Zimmer run what he wanted to - he suffocated him, just like he did Payton" (who, coincidentally heaps praise upon Parcells for his development as a coach DESPITE the suffocation). Interestingly, these are the same people who claim Bill is nothing without Bellichick - whom he apparently wasn't suffocating?

I don't know - it all gets so confusing once you pass into irrationality. I get mixed up. Parcells owes all his credit to his assistants, who he won't allow to coach. It makes more sense if you're drinking, so raise a glass.

Wade is likely a better X's and O's guy. I don't have any knowledge of Bill as a defensive coordinator. But I really like what Wade does. I really hope that he's gonna be the right guy at the right time in Dallas.

I understand your confusion. Salute! On me.

I think Wade will get the opportunity to take a team that needs polishing more than rebuilding. With the addition of Spencer and the return of Ellis he'll have so much more flexibility than we had at the end of last year.

I'm excited about using more schemes. And the team is well versed in cover 2. Adding more schemes is going to do what the players are saying; adding more weapons to the arsenal. I think if you put that all together we will have a great chance to exceed what was going on up to the last 1/3 of the year.

And I think the offense which plagued us for years finally got fixed. I know Romo could fail but I think it unlikely. Of course we just got lucky fixing the Offense. It's better in spite of a tyrranical, stupid, out of date and touch fossil like Parcells. How we overcame that and scored 425 points or so baffles me.

 

[eduncan22]

this post says exactly what would be.... BP would make a good HC as long as he let his assistants do their job with little to no interference by Bill. That would never happen with Bill, and seeing how Bill let this defense fall apart with his passive 3-4 defense... I would have to say it would have to be Wade Phillips.

besides, do not forget, we do have a DC in James Stewart.

Perhaps you prefer the Dave Campo years....

 

[theogt]

You're a man of rare restraint.

One thing that's interesting to notice, and I'm not sure where this fits in, although if I get some time and some video capture software I might go to it - is that we played New Orleans the exact same way we played Indy. We did the same things with Ware, he had to make the same decisions where Indy would flank out a back/TE/WR and force Ware out, forcing him to go pass or rush. If you watch them back to back, the similarities in attack strategy were exactly the same.

It's amazing what good execution will do for your defense.

Interesting hypothesis. I'll get back to you.

It's also amazing that it's never "Zimmer's defense never worked here." Conveniently forgotten in disdain for Bill, is who was actually working up our defensive plans for the week. Which is always generally countered with "Bill wouldn't let Zimmer run what he wanted to - he suffocated him, just like he did Payton" (who, coincidentally heaps praise upon Parcells for his development as a coach DESPITE the suffocation). Interestingly, these are the same people who claim Bill is nothing without Bellichick - whom he apparently wasn't suffocating?

I don't know - it all gets so confusing once you pass into irrationality. I get mixed up. Parcells owes all his credit to his assistants, who he won't allow to coach. It makes more sense if you're drinking, so raise a glass.

It's not inconsistent if you really think about it. He's not an X's and O's guy. He's more of a parameters type guy. Obviously his parameters with Zimmer were pretty tight. Everyone in the organization, including Parcells himself, said as much. His parameters with Belicheck must have been much less strict, which makes sense given he was a 3-4 guy and with Parcells for a long time. These are all reasons to not want Bill over Wade. With Wade we're getting his defense. With Bill we're getting some constrained hybrid.

But I don't think it was Zimmer that was insisting on sticking with the base package on 4 receiver sets. I don't think it was Zimmer that insisted on playing a 2-gap exclusively. I don't think it was Zimmer that insisted on playing a very basic and flawed (given our personnel) coverage scheme over and over and over and over and over. I don't think it was Zimmer that had Bradie James playing at 265.

Maybe it was. But they're both at fault and if the choice between them and Wade, it's an easy choice.

 

[5Stars]

But I don't think it was Zimmer that was insisting on sticking with the base package on 4 receiver sets. I don't think it was Zimmer that insisted on playing a 2-gap exclusively. I don't think it was Zimmer that insisted on playing a very basic and flawed (given our personnel) coverage scheme over and over and over and over and over. I don't think it was Zimmer that had Bradie James playing at 265.

Maybe it was. But they're both at fault and if the choice between them and Wade, it's an easy choice.

So...do you think it was Zimmer that messed up the defense?

 

[theogt]

So...do you think it was Zimmer that messed up the defense?

I don't think he knew how to fix it within Parcells' parameters. Maybe he was too scared to say, "F you, I'm doing this." Dunno. Maybe it was all his idea. If it was and Bill signed off on it, shame on him as well.

 

[AsthmaField]

Wade Phillips, circa 2007.