Iloka versus Thomas

[jterrell]

I'm so glad that you feel that you're in position to speak for Kris Richard. Or what this team will do.

Some people think they know more than they do.

Some people are obtuse and ignore obvious facts.

 

[J-man]

Thomas is a much better player. But George is no scrub and could be signed regardless of what happens with him.

 

[Sydla]

In DAL Iloka would be a Box safety. He can not play free safety here.
He is a good man coverage guy but he is not a sideline to sideline guy in a cover 3.
He ran a 4.66 40 yard dash at the combine.
I was a box safety in college and ran a 4.65 btw.

Xavier Woods ran a 4.54 and Jeff Heath as run high 4.3s but officially listed at 4.48.

40 times have nothing to do with whether a guy can play it or not. He played FS in Cincy for 2-3 years.

I can only go by actual facts and now what people think he can play based on estimated 40 times and his vitals.

 

[Stash]

Some people are obtuse and ignore obvious facts.

And some people are ignorant and think that they know everything.

 

[Sydla]

Yes but in Cover 2 schemes where a safety has 1 half the field or man coverage duties.
That's not what Richard does.

So you say Iloka can only play FS in a Cover 2? And that he can't play FS in a Cover-3 system like Richard's?

You better tell people that follow the Bengals he can't play FS in a Cover 3...........

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/6/21/17486954/bengals-most-success-of-any-nfl-team-running-cover-3

These two lines caught my eye:

Cover-3 splits the field into deep thirds, with the free safety taking the middle, and the outside cornerbacks dropping deep on either side. This allows the defense to put eight men in the box using the strong safety,

A huge reason for the Bengals’ success in Cover-3 would probably be George Iloka’s ability to cover the middle of the field.

 

[northerncowboynation]

I know but the guy that does is the one who took one look at BJones and said he is a CB then promoted him to starting outside CB after about 5 minutes.

Hey man. I'm not debating this. I think Jones is best left at CB but remember that same guy who made the decision on moving Jones to CB, now finds himself down one FS and again, just an opinion, ET is never coming here. So, will we look at moving BJ back to S, neither you or I will be part of that decision. I'm going to guess, just a guess mind you, that it will be part of the discussion.

 

[Ken]

Why the infatuation with this guy? He is an average SS and we already have 2 of those. We need a FS....

 

[ThrowuptheXDez88]

lol so why in the world would we want him if Cinci releases him 2 weeks into pre-season??? I don't get it at all, that should speak volumes on what they think of his play at the moment.. I'm so confused why we want anyone that becomes available just b/c we aren't deep at safety.. GO GET EARL THOMAS NOW!!! Ioka won't be a difference maker when it comes to wins and losses, EARL THOMAS WILL!

 

[Stash]

So you say Iloka can only play FS in a Cover 2? And that he can't play FS in a Cover-3 system like Richard's?

You better tell people that follow the Bengals he can't play FS in a Cover 3...........

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/6/21/17486954/bengals-most-success-of-any-nfl-team-running-cover-3

These two lines caught my eye:

 

[erod]

This is like comparing Zeke to Olawale.

They are different players that play different positions.

 

[Sydla]

This is like comparing Zeke to Olawale.

They are different players that play different positions.

Except........... they might not play different positions.

I just linked an article from a Bengals writer showing that Iloka played FS for the Bengals and did so successfully when the team went Cover 3, which is the same position Thomas plays.

Thomas is the better player. No one debates that. But he's likely a very tough acquisition and right now the Cowboys don't have the luxury of waiting Seattle out. They are down to two safeties and one, Frazier, can't play FS and the other, Heath, Richard seemingly thinks is a better SS than FS.

 

[Stash]

Except........... they might not play different positions.

I just linked an article from a Bengals writer showing that Iloka played FS for the Bengals and did so successfully when the team went Cover 3, which is the same position Thomas plays.

Thomas is the better player. No one debates that. But he's likely a very tough acquisition and right now the Cowboys don't have the luxury of waiting Seattle out. They are down to two safeties and one, Frazier, can't play FS and the other, Heath, Richard seemingly thinks is a better SS than FS.

It's the "Earl Thomas at all costs" thing. It totally clouds some people's judgement.

 

[erod]

Except........... they might not play different positions.

I just linked an article from a Bengals writer showing that Iloka played FS for the Bengals and did so successfully when the team went Cover 3, which is the same position Thomas plays.

Thomas is the better player. No one debates that. But he's likely a very tough acquisition and right now the Cowboys don't have the luxury of waiting Seattle out. They are down to two safeties and one, Frazier, can't play FS and the other, Heath, Richard seemingly thinks is a better SS than FS.

Cover 3 is three deep safeties. Kris Richard likes Cover 1 with a single deep safety. Iloka can't do that. Woods can't do that yet. Dallas doesn't need another strong safety. They need a real deep safety, and have for years.

 

[Sydla]

Cover 3 is three deep safeties. Kris Richard likes Cover 1 with a single deep safety. Iloka can't do that. Woods can't do that yet. Dallas doesn't need another strong safety. They need a real deep safety, and have for years.

Seattle runs primarily a Cover 3 defense.

https://emeraldcityswagger.com/2017/04/09/seattle-seahawks-breaking-down-4-2-5-defense/

The Seahawks primarily run a Cover 3 zone. In layman’s terms, the two outside corners are responsible for the one-third of the field each, from the hash marks to the sideline. The free safety, Earl Thomas, is responsible for covering the middle third:

 

[Stash]

Seattle runs primarily a Cover 3 defense.

https://emeraldcityswagger.com/2017/04/09/seattle-seahawks-breaking-down-4-2-5-defense/

 

[erod]

Seattle runs primarily a Cover 3 defense.

https://emeraldcityswagger.com/2017/04/09/seattle-seahawks-breaking-down-4-2-5-defense/

And you think Iloka can play the center field spot in that? If he could, he still be a Bengal.

Big safeties are everywhere, but very few can play deep these days. Jeff Heath is a good safety, as long as you don't ask him to roam deep.

This is a good defense, but if they don't get a really player back there, it's going to get torched by good teams.

 

[Batman1980]

And you think Iloka can play the center field spot in that? If he could, he still be a Bengal.

Big safeties are everywhere, but very few can play deep these days. Jeff Heath is a good safety, as long as you don't ask him to roam deep.

This is a good defense, but if they don't get a really player back there, it's going to get torched by good teams.

Alshon Jeffrey/Megatron/Brandon Marshall flashbacks from when they high pointed the ball over our DBs.

 

[Sydla]

And you think Iloka can play the center field spot in that? If he could, he still be a Bengal.

Big safeties are everywhere, but very few can play deep these days. Jeff Heath is a good safety, as long as you don't ask him to roam deep.

This is a good defense, but if they don't get a really player back there, it's going to get torched by good teams.

So let's follow this.

First you say it doesn't matter that Iloka played FS in the Bengals Cover 3 because Seattle played Cover 1.

Now all of a sudden after realizing you had no idea what Seattle/Richard primary cover scheme is, you are going to go back and say Iloka can't play it despite the fact we have people from Cincy saying he played it and played it well.

And by almost all accounts, his cut from Cincy caught everyone by surprise because, in fact, he had played just fine for Cincy as a FS. It's not like he sucked last year and they just set him free.

Why is it so hard to just say, "Wow, you are right, I didn't realize the similarities in the two defenses and Iloka actually played a competent FS there......"

I mean one can still say that and think Thomas is a much better option. I am no big Iloka fan. But I am dealing with two realities here. Thomas is a tough get, possibly an impossible get because we need Seattle to give him to us. The other reality is we are down to two healthy safeties and neither is a FS. So that leaves me scouring the available players that could at least play an adequate FS. Iloka appears to be the best fit considering he was, at the very least, adequate playing the FS spot in the Bengals Cover 3 coverages.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

He sounds like a decent safety.
Don't really get the feeling he'd be all that expensive either.
Why not? Bring the guy in.
We need another safety like Rosie O'Donnell needs someone to bag on.

 

[erod]

So let's follow this.

First you say it doesn't matter that Iloka played FS in the Bengals Cover 3 because Seattle played Cover 1.

Now all of a sudden after realizing you had no idea what Seattle/Richard primary cover scheme is, you are going to go back and say Iloka can't play it despite the fact we have people from Cincy saying he played it and played it well.

And by almost all accounts, his cut from Cincy caught everyone by surprise because, in fact, he had played just fine for Cincy as a FS. It's not like he sucked last year and they just set him free.

Why is it so hard to just say, "Wow, you are right, I didn't realize the similarities in the two defenses and Iloka actually played a competent FS there......"

I mean one can still say that and think Thomas is a much better option.

Look, I'd much rather see Iloka back there than any of the cast we have right now. But he's not anywhere near Earl Thomas when it comes to playing deep safety.

You can put up videos of the handful of plays he made, but there are PLENTY more where he got beaten badly back there. He ain't great.

As far as the football semantics, Richard wants to play our corners up on the line with a deep high safety. (Which is wonderful.) That's not Cover 3. Seattle had teams in 3rd-and-long a LOT, which is the perfect time to play Cover 3.

Dallas needs a guy that can roam, and more imporantly, a guy that can call the defensive secondary like Sean Lee.

No doubt Dallas is interested because they love the bargain bin these days. But I hope it's just posturing leverage for a real run at Thomas, which is the only guy that can make this defense elite.