Interesting Kiper idea...

[Cbz40]

I actually would prefer that. The Draft is an allocation where you choose from who is left to you when it is your turn. Once the Draft was done let's say your only holes left was kicker and Free Safety, you would then go into Free Agency more focused on filling those 2 needs.

Well and good but......there are always holes that you would prefer filling w/vets rather than rookies.(OT, C, FS) Would you not want to fill those holes before the draft?

 

[Hostile]

Well and good but......there are always holes that you would prefer filling w/vets rather than rookies.(OT, C, FS) Would you not want to fill those holes before the draft?

As I said, I'd rather go into Free Agency completely focused on finishing the roster additions. In other words, knowing what is needed.

Here's a theoretical for you using 2 players. Let's say we were looking to add a Nose Tackle and Jason Ferguson were a Free Agent this year. Let's also assume that there is a run on offense and somehow Haloti Ngata of Oregon falls to us at #18.

Which would you prefer?

1. Draft Ngata, and use the FA money Ferguson would cost on another need?

or...

2. Sign Ferguson, and then have to make a choice of going ahead and Drafting Ngata, knowing one or the other is going to sit?

 

[AbeBeta]

That's one thing I considered...

BUT... if it was contracts alone it would make it worth it, plus most graduating seniors have very light loads their final semester anyway...

Since when do graduating seniors have light loads? Most have to fill various "capstone" requirements. Many have senior theses and other various large scale projects.

But still -- the fact remains -- if you aren't graduated you can't participate in leage stuff until your semester or quarter is over. I doubt seriously that the league is going to change that rule.

 

[speedkilz88]

Well and good but......there are always holes that you would prefer filling w/vets rather than rookies.(OT, C, FS) Would you not want to fill those holes before the draft?

Most nfl people have the thinking that you build your team through the draft, so free agency after to fill your holes would be preferred I think.

 

[Cbz40]

As I said, I'd rather go into Free Agency completely focused on finishing the roster additions. In other words, knowing what is needed.

Here's a theoretical for you using 2 players. Let's say we were looking to add a Nose Tackle and Jason Ferguson were a Free Agent this year. Let's also assume that there is a run on offense and somehow Haloti Ngata of Oregon falls to us at #18.

Which would you prefer?

1. Draft Ngata, and use the FA money Ferguson would cost on another need?

or...

2. Sign Ferguson, and then have to make a choice of going ahead and Drafting Ngata, knowing one or the other is going to sit?

Thank you Sir.....I see your pont.

For some of us it's better when you draw a picture. You've heard the old saying.... a picture is worth a 1000 words.

 

[Wheat]

I think if they move it up.

Then they also really need to copy the NBA system for rookies, so they are no hold-outs.

If you're going to make a change, might as well do it all at once.

No rookie QB should get a bigger bonus than a guy who's proven himself. I don't care if its Alex Smith or the 2nd coming of Sammy Baugh.

Guys should be cashing in on their 2nd contract.

 

[trickblue]

Since when do graduating seniors have light loads? Most have to fill various "capstone" requirements. Many have senior theses and other various large scale projects.

But still -- the fact remains -- if you aren't graduated you can't participate in leage stuff until your semester or quarter is over. I doubt seriously that the league is going to change that rule.

Well I certainly did... and I know many that did...

Most fututre NFL'ers aren't completing a thesis anyway... and a ton of draftees are underclassmen that already quit school, provided they even went to class at all...

As far as the league rule on the semester being ove, I said that could be time to work out a contract

 

[Cbz40]

Most nfl people have the thinking that you build your team through the draft, so free agency after to fill your holes would be preferred I think.

I do and have always agreed that building through the draft should be the preferred strategy.........This FA junk has clouded my thinking.

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't see the holdout issue as a reason for moving the draft up. If anything, it only gives more time for posturing. When was the last major holdout in the NFL? The league rarely has serious ones. In the past it was only a couple of cheap owners who regularly had holdouts -- the slotted pay system is very effective in that regard.

I could care less about the #1 pick getting a massive deal -- he should get it. The NFL is very different than the NBA -- the average career is far shorter -- guys need to cash in as soon as they can.

 

[Alexander]

Exactly... and I think that is part of what Kiper was talking about... overanalyzation...

These teams already pretty much know what the kid is capable of, why break him down to "We really liked his 40 time but his vertical jump was an inch shorter than a few others at his position, plus his reaction time in Madden 2005 was just not up to par"...

I do agree overanalysis leads to some poor decisions.

But only the very foolish put that much stock in the workouts. You have a collection of brass that do and the smart ones that do not.

 

[AbeBeta]

As far as the league rule on the semester being ove, I said that could be time to work out a contract

What? These kids are working on contracts themselves now? That's all the agent dude. It isn't that teams don't have the time to work out deals -- it is that teams don't have the motivation to work out deals until TC is approaching. Why would that change with a longer period before.

 

[trickblue]

I do agree overanalysis leads to some poor decisions.

But only the very foolish put that much stock in the workouts. You have a collection of brass that do and the smart ones that do not.

I think it is more the "geek factor" intering the NFL...

Our own Cowboys started the trend of overanalyzation of players back in the 60's/70's...

It worked out well for us early, but our last few years of Gil Brandt drafts were not that good...

 

[Wheat]

I don't see the holdout issue as a reason for moving the draft up. If anything, it only gives more time for posturing. When was the last major holdout in the NFL? The league rarely has serious ones. In the past it was only a couple of cheap owners who regularly had holdouts -- the slotted pay system is very effective in that regard.

I could care less about the #1 pick getting a massive deal -- he should get it. The NFL is very different than the NBA -- the average career is far shorter -- guys need to cash in as soon as they can.

well, if you copy the NBA model. then the rookie contract is shorter.

How about this.

Make it shorter, and for less money. But make a rookie deal 100% guaranteed.

Believe me, if you're the top overall pick. You'll get a nice 3 or 4 year deal, with like 20 mil PROMISED to go to you. That's nothing to sneeze at. it also lets teams rewards guys who have been there for you, and actually produced.

 

[trickblue]

What? These kids are working on contracts themselves now? That's all the agent dude. It isn't that teams don't have the time to work out deals -- it is that teams don't have the motivation to work out deals until TC is approaching. Why would that change with a longer period before.

Quit being facetious... of course agents work out deals "dude"...

I am merely stating that agents and teams would have more time to hammer out a deal...

 

[Hostile]

Thank you Sir.....I see your pont.

For some of us it's better when you draw a picture. You've heard the old saying.... a picture is worth a 1000 words.

Another possible benefit could be that teams would get their Draft Picks singed before the mini camps.

Probably not, but I like thinking about no holdouts.

 

[Alexander]

I think it is more the "geek factor" intering the NFL...

Our own Cowboys started the trend of overanalyzation of players back in the 60's/70's...

It worked out well for us early, but our last few years of Gil Brandt drafts were not that good...

True, but back then scouting was very primitive and we were the pioneers. Once everyone caught on and thought "wait a minute, this draft thing is a great way to get talent", Brandt's results took a nosedive.

 

[AbeBeta]

Well I certainly did... and I know many that did...

Most fututre NFL'ers aren't completing a thesis anyway... and a ton of draftees are underclassmen that already quit school, provided they even went to class at all...

with all respect TB -- you likely finished college what? 20 years ago? there have been several prominent movements since them -- most focused on providing broad finishing experiences to all students (theses, capstone courses, exit exams)

athletes (at least FB guys) are likely taking lighter loads during the season and heavier loads every spring. so the final semester of the senior year would likely be a heavier load if they wanted to finish.

yes, many do quit school -- but the league shouldn't encourage that by moving the draft up even earlier - practically forcing kids to give up that semester so that they can study the playbook.

 

[AbeBeta]

Quit being facetious... of course agents work out deals "dude"...

I am merely stating that agents and teams would have more time to hammer out a deal...

It isn't the time. It is the motivation -- why do you think we wait until TC is about to start? So that we don't have time to screw around. This proposal gives MORE time to screw around.

 

[Hostile]

True, but back then scouting was very primitive and we were the pioneers. Once everyone caught on and thought "wait a minute, this draft thing is a great way to get talent", Brandt's results took a nosedive.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[Qwickdraw]

I was listening to ESPNRadio last night and they had Mel Kiper on...

He feels the draft should be moved up to around Feb 25 so teams could quit overanalyzing the players and go with what they have (recently) seen on the field.

I got to thinking that this was a good idea for several reasons...

1. As Kiper said, it would stop the constant overanalyzing of college players.
2. It would allow contracts to get done a LOT faster, thereby ending alot of holdouts
3. It would allow teams to get rooks into mini-camps earlier and make the transition into the NFL smoother.
4. It would allow rooks the chance to start studying schemes and plays 2 months earlier.
5. The combine would come into more importance as it would occur just before the draft.

I fully agree.
All good points.

However, what would we talk about for the remaining months if it were moved up?