Interesting Kiper idea...

[trickblue]

especially coming from a troublemaker like yeag and a skins fan.......

One in the same...

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Well thank you pops. haha.

Something like that ever comes to fruition and teams will start to draft needs to improve weaknesses, as opposed to needs to fill holes. Ala the Commanders needing to draft Carlos Rogers and 2 RBs last year. Derek Smith and his 100 tackles per year would still be playing MLB for the Commanders.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

One in the same...

:laugh2:

I dont start trouble. I try to keep you guys grounded. While at the same time singing the praises of the mighty Commanders. haha.

 

[Cbz40]

One in the same...

Very true tb......:laugh2:

 

[AbeBeta]

Here's another issue to consider. The fate of rookie FA's and late round picks. Every year there are about 400 undrafted rookie FA's signed.

If a team knows that a rookie FA is going to be finishing his degree -- and thus won't have time to devote to learning the playbook etc. Do you think he's getting signed? Likely not. To get signed, these guys would pretty much be forced to give up their final semester.

This is an especially harsh aspect of the proposal as these are the players who are the least likely to make a lot of money in the NFL. In this case an early draft would strongly encourage these guys to skip their final semester --making it very unlikely that they'll ever finish their degree. These are the guys who need a college degree the most as few will make a living in the NFL.

 

[Hostile]

Here's another issue to consider. The fate of rookie FA's and late round picks. Every year there are about 400 undrafted rookie FA's signed.

If a team knows that a rookie FA is going to be finishing his degree -- and thus won't have time to devote to learning the playbook etc. Do you think he's getting signed? Likely not. To get signed, these guys would pretty much be forced to give up their final semester.

This is an especially harsh aspect of the proposal as these are the players who are the least likely to make a lot of money in the NFL. In this case an early draft would strongly encourage these guys to skip their final semester --making it very unlikely that they'll ever finish their degree. These are the guys who need a college degree the most as few will make a living in the NFL.

I think you're fishing now.

Every year guys go undrafted and every year some of them finish their degrees and get picked up by NFL teams.

It's still about wanting it.

I say Emmitt Smith again. He left college without a degree and went back and got one. If he can do it with his busy plate anyone can. The student/athlete has to want it.

Changing the date of the Draft wouldn't alter the desire to earn a degree in anyone already set in his mind to get it.

 

[AbeBeta]

I think you're fishing now.

Every year guys go undrafted and every year some of them finish their degrees and get picked up by NFL teams.

It's still about wanting it.

I say Emmitt Smith again. He left college without a degree and went back and got one. If he can do it with his busy plate anyone can. The student/athlete has to want it.

Changing the date of the Draft wouldn't alter the desire to earn a degree in anyone already set in his mind to get it.

Well, I think you are wrong.

You can say it is about "wanting it" but it is a ton easier to "want it" if you are able to support your family and live comfortably. Emmitt had a "busy plate" but he could afford to do college on his own terms because he was rich.

That undrafted FA's finish their degrees now totally ignores the point I made in my post.

 

[Longboysfan]

Nothing new. Same thing I heard from a lot of other pro scouting groups and some NFL presonell. For the past 5 plus years.

Del Kupper late to the dance and with old information. :shootme:

 

[Hostile]

Well, I think you are wrong.

You can say it is about "wanting it" but it is a ton easier to "want it" if you are able to support your family and live comfortably. Emmitt had a "busy plate" but he could afford to do college on his own terms because he was rich.

That undrafted FA's finish their degrees now totally ignores the point I made in my post.

I decided I wanted my degrees when I was 28 years old. I was working 2 jobs at the time and had a wife and 2 kids. It took me 7 years but I finished them.

Don't tell me about wanting it and supporting a family and living comfortably. I've lived it.

 

[AbeBeta]

I decided I wanted my degrees when I was 28 years old. I was working 2 jobs at the time and had a wife and 2 kids. It took me 7 years but I finished them.

Don't tell me about wanting it and supporting a family and living comfortably. I've lived it.

But you insist on focusing on your own atypical case -- not what happens to 99% of people. The fact is that most kids who leave college NEVER return. Also, folks without a college degree have greatly reduced earning potential. Based on these facts, any act the NFL takes to further encourage student athletes to leave college is simply bad for the students.

 

[Seven]

It has been my experience that someone who wants the degree will finish it no matter what it takes. Someone who is indifferent to it, is not going to benefit from any scenario of when the Draft is held.

Effort gets you to the end goal, not time.

I'm thinking about putting that on my headstone.

 

[Yeagermeister]

especially coming from a troublemaker like yeag

Me a troublemaker?

 

[Hostile]

But you insist on focusing on your own atypical case -- not what happens to 99% of people. The fact is that most kids who leave college NEVER return. Also, folks without a college degree have greatly reduced earning potential. Based on these facts, any act the NFL takes to further encourage student athletes to leave college is simply bad for the students.

Who forces those kids to stay away from college?

Who holds them at gunpoint?

Who threatens the lives of their family members if they get a degree?

If they don't want the degree that's on them, not the NFL. If they want the degree, they'll find a way.

My sister-in-law's husband left her with 3 teenage boys. This is her last semester of nursing school. Was it easy for her to do that and raise her boys alone? No, but she's doing it. 2 of her boys are in college and 1 is graduating this year and going to college. I know for a fact that at times they struggle because I've bought them groceries many times.

My sister has 4 kids she's raising by herself because her husband is a worthless piece of crap who pled no contest and gave up custody to avoid jail. He owes her over 20k in child support. She's putting herself through college.

These are just people I know. I am sure nearly everybody on this forum can come up with examples of people sacrificing somethign to get an education.

You can call me callous and unfeeling if you want to, but I'll maintain until the day I die that if any of those student/athletes want the degree they can get it. Is it always easy? No, and I'll never say it is.

I'm also not going to say we should find all kinds of ways to blame the NFL. That is roughly equivalent to me of the people who sue the cigarette manufacturers because they get lung cancer. Duh.

 

[superpunk]

Who forces those kids to stay away from college?

Who holds them at gunpoint?

Who threatens the lives of their family members if they get a degree?

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

The Shadow knows.....

 

[AbeBeta]

Who forces those kids to stay away from college?
......

Again, you focus on the tiny percent of success stories. I'm talking about a what typically happens to kids who leave college -- and arguing that the league doesn't need to contribute to even more kids leaving college. I respect your point and experiences but fail to see how they are relevant to this situation.

Your smoking analogy is off-based to me. That would be like saying that cigarrette companies who added chemicals to their products to make them MORE addictive -- knowing full well what happens when people get hooked -- shouldn't be responsible for their actions.

 

[Hostile]

I'm thinking about putting that on my headstone.

Just not any time soon hopefully.

:wink2:

 

[Hostile]

Again, you focus on the tiny percent of success stories. I'm talking about a what typically happens to kids who leave college -- and arguing that the league doesn't need to contribute to even more kids leaving college. I respect your point and experiences but fail to see how they are relevant to this situation.

Your smoking analogy is off-based to me. That would be like saying that cigarrette companies who added chemicals to their products to make them MORE addictive -- knowing full well what happens when people get hooked -- shouldn't be responsible for their actions.

A wise old cowboy once told me "if you could kick the person who hurts you right in the pants you'd wear out your own butt."

I'm sorry, but I don't blame the cigarette manufacturers.

Just like I don't blame the gun manufactuers when someone takes a gun and uses it on another human being.

Just like I don't blame the stove for being hot when you touch it.

You want to go through life looking to blame someone else for all your ills that's your business. I'll never buy into it and I'll never feel sorry for people who fail because of their own lack of effort.

Give me an example of 1 person who it is 100% impossible for them to get their degree if the NFL changed their Draft date and I'll grant you a valid point. Just one out of the thousands of college athletes who play.

Until then all this is on your part is a witch hunt to place blame on someone else's shoulders. No one can make me feel inferior without my consent. I'm no different than any human being who has ever breathed. No better, no worse. Yes, I used my own life experinces as an example. I used the life experiences of people I know personally and said others could do the same.

Here's you chance to do the same thing. Give me irrefutable proof that someone could be prevented from getting a degree that they want to get. Just one. If you can do that I'll be amazed. Until then it's just a theory aimed at making someone a victim when they don't have to be one. I don't think your theory can hold water. Not against the desires of the human heart. No way.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I don't like the idea of moving up the draft for several reasons. First and foremost is that it's too close to the conclusion of the college season. Give college players a few months after ending their career and see what they do with it.

It lets the NFL know the commitment level of certain players. Can player A keep his nose clean? Does player B get out of shape? Less than 2 months isn't enough time to find these things out.

There's also the rehab questions. Many times we've seen players hurt late in the year or in bowl games skip the combine because they weren't healthy but they came back at a later pro day date and proved their health before the draft. Look at Bobby Carpenter this year. A february draft probably cost him a few million dollars.

 

[AbeBeta]

A wise old cowboy once told me "if you could kick the person who hurts you right in the pants you'd wear out your own butt."

again we are arguing different points -- you are saying "if they really want it they'll do it" and those aren't the folks i'm arguing for -- I'm not talking about the handful of folks who will go back. I'm talking about the the VAST MAJORITY of students who leave college - those are the kids who never come back. You are saying "give me proof they can't come back" -- again that's not my point. Most who leave never come back. For many of these kids this is a chance at a free college education - the new system would encourage them to throw that away - to me that is an awful thing to promote.

 

[Hostile]

again we are arguing different points -- you are saying "if they really want it they'll do it" and those aren't the folks i'm arguing for -- I'm not talking about the handful of folks who will go back. I'm talking about the the VAST MAJORITY of students who leave college - those are the kids who never come back. You are saying "give me proof they can't come back" -- again that's not my point. Most who leave never come back. For many of these kids this is a chance at a free college education - the new system would encourage them to throw that away - to me that is an awful thing to promote.

Like I said, if they leave and don't go back it's their choice. On them. Their shoulders.

Why should I feel anything for them if that's THEIR choice?

I don't see the big gloom and doom scenario here. Some leave school with the current system. That's their choice. If more leave if the system changed it is still their choice.

If they don't go back, boo hoo hoo. There, I've now felt as soory for them as I am ever going to. What about them? What do you want me to tell you about them? It's their life, they can screw it up if they want to.

The NFL would not be promoting people not finishing their educations. Show me the cheerleaders waving their pom poms and saying "don't go back, don't go back." Show me where the NFL would throw parties about all the guys who don't finish their educations.

I guarantee you more college educations have been given up over pregnancy than this ever could come close to matching in any given year. Why not shout about college kids not having sex? It would do more good.