Interesting Kiper idea...

[AbeBeta]

Like I said, if they leave and don't go back it's their choice. On them. Their shoulders.

again two different points -- their shoulders yes -- but the situation makes them choose either a) finish degree or b) quit school for an outside chance at an NFL career. if they finish the degree at that time they may never have the NFL chance. and if they leave college early, most will not come back.

frankly I find that it takes the whole "camp body" concept to a new, and more exploitive, level.

you are clearly fine with that. i am not.

 

[blindzebra]

6 pages and nobody mentioned the added benefits of players not doing the stupid stuff that gets them hurt like adding a lot of weight the wrong way or losing a lot of weight the wrong way.

Have them getting where they need to be under your program and not their agent's.

As for increasing the drop-out rate, how naive can you be. College football is a business, and the players that will be moving on to the next level, the majority were not exactly emphasizing the student part of student-athlete while they were in school.

If they were, why would there be so much celebration over players that got their degree early, or players making the all-academic team? Because those players are the exceptions, not the rule.

Kids that have worked hard and are near their degree...and VALUE IT...will still do what it takes to get it. Those that have been using college as a stepping-stone and scratching by, waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel, are already dropping out and hitting the gym to improve their workout times under the current time frame.

 

[AbeBeta]

As for increasing the drop-out rate, how naive can you be. College football is a business, and the players that will be moving on to the next level, the majority were not exactly emphasizing the student part of student-athlete while they were in school.

I think you are being the one that is naive - encouraging guys who are just going to be camp bodies to give up school is pretty stupid.

Many schools have strong student-athlete traditions -- with good graduation rates. Broadly saying that these kids aren't emphasizing the student part is something that the NCAA would dispute strongly.

It is fine if a top round pick isn't emphasizing school -- but I'm talking about the guys who have little chance at NFL success and the impact of this change on them.

 

[Hostile]

again two different points -- their shoulders yes -- but the situation makes them choose either a) finish degree or b) quit school for an outside chance at an NFL career. if they finish the degree at that time they may never have the NFL chance. and if they leave college early, most will not come back.

frankly I find that it takes the whole "camp body" concept to a new, and more exploitive, level.

you are clearly fine with that. i am not.

No, it doesn't.

Show me where it means they can't finish the semester or their degree. Offer some proof of this rather than just an insinuation.

Kids don't finish their degrees for all kinds of reasons, but by all means let's villify the NFL if they have an exciting lifestyle to offer someone who is good enough.

I don't get it. I think that's defeatest thinking.

 

[Hostile]

6 pages and nobody mentioned the added benefits of players not doing the stupid stuff that gets them hurt like adding a lot of weight the wrong way or losing a lot of weight the wrong way.

Have them getting where they need to be under your program and not their agent's.

As for increasing the drop-out rate, how naive can you be. College football is a business, and the players that will be moving on to the next level, the majority were not exactly emphasizing the student part of student-athlete while they were in school.

If they were, why would there be so much celebration over players that got their degree early, or players making the all-academic team? Because those players are the exceptions, not the rule.

Kids that have worked hard and are near their degree...and VALUE IT...will still do what it takes to get it. Those that have been using college as a stepping-stone and scratching by, waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel, are already dropping out and hitting the gym to improve their workout times under the current time frame.

Outstanding point. Aces.

 

[jterrell]

I actually would prefer that. The Draft is an allocation where you choose from who is left to you when it is your turn. Once the Draft was done let's say your only holes left was kicker and Free Safety, you would then go into Free Agency more focused on filling those 2 needs.

I agree 100%.

I'd rather draft first then hit free agency as the drfat should be the 1st avenue and I'd hate to pass on the best player at a certian spot because I had already spent 15 mil on the same position in free agency.

 

[blindzebra]

I think you are being the one that is naive - encouraging guys who are just going to be camp bodies to give up school is pretty stupid.

Many schools have strong student-athlete traditions -- with good graduation rates. Broadly saying that these kids aren't emphasizing the student part is something that the NCAA would dispute strongly.

It is fine if a top round pick isn't emphasizing school -- but I'm talking about the guys who have little chance at NFL success and the impact of this change on them.

You mean the ones who play at a 3rd rate school in a smaller conference, have been having girlfriends write their papers, and have all their friends telling them, "Don't forget us when you make it big in the NFL?"

The ones that have valued their educational opportunity will still get their degree. The ones that have been sliding along the entire time and will see the brass ring that isn't there, already threw away the opportunity long before February of their senior year.

 

[Hostile]

I don't like the idea of moving up the draft for several reasons. First and foremost is that it's too close to the conclusion of the college season. Give college players a few months after ending their career and see what they do with it.

It lets the NFL know the commitment level of certain players. Can player A keep his nose clean? Does player B get out of shape? Less than 2 months isn't enough time to find these things out.

There's also the rehab questions. Many times we've seen players hurt late in the year or in bowl games skip the combine because they weren't healthy but they came back at a later pro day date and proved their health before the draft. Look at Bobby Carpenter this year. A february draft probably cost him a few million dollars.

This is an outstanding point.

 

[AbeBeta]

You mean the ones who play at a 3rd rate school in a smaller conference, have been having girlfriends write their papers, and have all their friends telling them, "Don't forget us when you make it big in the NFL?"

The ones that have valued their educational opportunity will still get their degree. The ones that have been sliding along the entire time and will see the brass ring that isn't there, already threw away the opportunity long before February of their senior year.

Perhaps you should focus more on the bulk of the student-athletes rather than a stereotype of the student-athlete.

 

[jterrell]

I was in school with 5 first day draft picks in college.
Not a one passed a single class that last semester.

They simply stopped going to class and their full time job became getting drafted as highly as possible.

Now there's 2 ways to look at that.

1. Academically it turns folks off and seems improper.
2. In terms of common sense you are going to college to invest in your future and nothing is gonna invest more heavily than gaining a round and 3 to 5 million over the life of a 4 year contract. That extra 3 to 4 million can pay for you to be a full time student down the road if you so choose.

If I could be an Academic All-American drafted in round 6 or a college drop out drafted in round 2 I'd have to choose being a drop out.

If you get drafted high and fall out of the league you are still going to have the benfit of having earned some cash which makes returning to school quite possible if not easy.

Lets be honest. Colleges are not so much academic institutions as they are career prep seminars. The point is not to be educated but to become hirable. While that isn't the case 100% of the time it is the case the vast majority as colleges recognize what type of education parents will fund.

 

[blindzebra]

Perhaps you should focus more on the bulk of the student-athletes rather than a stereotype of the student-athlete.

How is my "stereotype" worse than yours?

You are the one saying they are blinded by greed, unrealistic, and so easily led astray, that moving the draft up will make them all drop out and never get their degree.

 

[AbeBeta]

How is my "stereotype" worse than yours?

You are the one saying they are blinded by greed, unrealistic, and so easily led astray, that moving the draft up will make them all drop out and never get their degree.

No, I'm saying that if you move the draft up that teams will be strongly encouraging guys that would be undrafted FA's to sign with them. That isn't blinded by greed -- it is a realistic opportunity - unfortunately because of the timing of the opportunity it will mean that they will be pressured to drop out of school. And it isn't a stereotype to say that most students who leave college never come back -- that's a fact.

 

[blindzebra]

No, I'm saying that if you move the draft up that teams will be strongly encouraging guys that would be undrafted FA's to sign with them. That isn't blinded by greed -- it is a realistic opportunity - unfortunately because of the timing of the opportunity it will mean that they will be pressured to drop out of school. And it isn't a stereotype to say that most students who leave college never come back -- that's a fact.

So the same players that would be reaching for the same opportunity 2 months later, who know they will be more marketable if their measurables were better would still be skipping class to go to the gym, they will also drop out with weeks to go to increase their chance of making the team that signs them.

The timing makes no difference.

Those who value the degree will get it, those who don't...most likely never did...will still not finish 2 months later.

 

[AbeBeta]

So the same players that would be reaching for the same opportunity 2 months later, who know they will be more marketable if their measurables were better would still be skipping class to go to the gym, they will also drop out with weeks to go to increase their chance of making the team that signs them.

The timing makes no difference.

Those who value the degree will get it, those who don't...most likely never did...will still not finish 2 months later.

the timing does make a difference -- end of the semester vs. the beginning of it. why do you think the draft is late April in the first place?

and we aren't talking about the top guys here -- I'm talking about -- and have been consistently talking about -- the undrafted FA's who aren't going to be going to have special training programs or any agent money invested in improving their measureables.