Interesting stuff on Bobby Carpenter

[dbair1967]

Well you do have a point, I'll admit that. But I think Carp was a good fit in BP's 3-4. Wade prefers a different type of OLB. It really is screwed up for Carp cuz he does have talent and I think he could still play OLB in Wade's scheme, he just wouldn't be as effective rushing the passer as Spencer/Ellis.

However, we could of just used him in coverage more and blitzed the safety or ILB more. Wade says he changes his scheme to fit the player, but that clearly isn't the case with Carp. He didn't even give him a chance.

And there's no doubt in my mind Carp does much better then Spencer while Ellis was out if they'd started him instead of Spencer. Probably would of got more then 1 sack too. However, in the long run, SPencer has more potential (in Wade's scheme).


Can't really say anything about this year since Carp is hurt, but it would be nice to see him get a shot eventually. Fact of the matter is he hasn't been given a fair opportunity, but that's life sometimes.

He was the best defensive player on the field in our playoff game last year. You'd think that would earn him a shot at the starting job this year, but I guess not.

I still think he'll end up being a good player...once he gets healthy and they nail him down for one spot and leave him there, he'll be fine...I would not be surprised at all if he starts at ILB next yr...

David

 

[theogt]

I still think he'll end up being a good player...once he gets healthy and they nail him down for one spot and leave him there, he'll be fine...I would not be surprised at all if he starts at ILB next yr...

David

Honestly, I expect him to. The light has to come on eventually. It's clear he's a better athlete than Ayodele. The only problem is whether he can be a better football player. And you'd think that light comes on eventually.

 

[Rack]

Spencer actually had 2 sacks. One was on the 2-point conversion attempt. It's only recorded as a special teams tackle, but he sacked the QB and prevented points.

I think it's hard to say whether Carp would have done better. I doubt it. But it's a sad statement that it's even up for debate that a player drafted higher and in his 2nd season would do better than a rookie that was drafted lower.

If Wade thought Carpenter would have done better than Spencer at OLB with Ellis out, he would have had him there. There was no question in his mind that Spencer was the better option.

That's not a sack. Just like it wouldn't of been an int if Eli had thrown it right to one of our defenders.

And you assume you know Wade, but you obviously don't. No doubt BP would of had Carp in there instead of Spencer, but Wade doesn't mind playing rookies. Wade figured "Might as well get the guy in there that's gonna eventually be in there anyway". Especially since Carp had been playing ILB almost all training camp.


There's no doubt MB3 is the "Better option" yet JuJo continues to be the starter.

 

[dallasfan]

You know darn well if Parcells had stayed here Spencer wouldn't be a cowboy. Wade prefers two pass rushers at OLB. BP preferred one of this LBs be able to cover and play the run.

Why do you say that? If this was true why move Ellis DE, when he obviously can't cover and move Carpenter inside. Parcells had no intentions of ever moving the guy outside unless someone went down.

 

[theogt]

That's not a sack. Just like it wouldn't of been an int if Eli had thrown it right to one of our defenders.

It's not called a sack. But for the purpose of our discussion it might as well have been one.

And you assume you know Wade, but you obviously don't.

Well, I assume Wade doesn't lie. During TC, when asked if Spencer was the starter with Ellis out, he replied, "Of course." As if it was a joke that anyone even asked the question.

No doubt BP would of had Carp in there instead of Spencer, but Wade doesn't mind playing rookies.

I think there's doubt.

Wade figured "Might as well get the guy in there that's gonna eventually be in there anyway". Especially since Carp had been playing ILB almost all training camp.

Carp was playing ILB becuase he wasn't considered a starting option at OLB.

There's no doubt MB3 is the "Better option" yet JuJo continues to be the starter.

That's a terrible analogy. Doesn't even make sense in the context.

 

[dallasfan]

There's no doubt MB3 is the "Better option" yet JuJo continues to be the starter.

While I agree, I have no problem with Jones starting because Barber gets more carries, especially in the 2nd half

 

[BlueStar II]

Some on here have suggested that we "could" try to include Carpenter in a possible trade package to move up in April, and if that happens, I wouldn't object. Frankly though, I would be surprised if there would be much interest on another teams part who would want him enough to bother including him in a trade package. He just hasn't shown enough, IMO. Of course he "could" end up going to another team and become a significant player for them, but I doubt it though.

 

[dallasfan]

Overall I think Carpenter will one day make a good 4-3 OLB, but imo he'll never be a good 3-4 OLB.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I dunno, Rack, I remember Madden saying even last year that Parcells eventually saw Carp as an inside player. I have no idea why, other than the fact that Carp "looks" more like an inside player to him. Meaning that he's shorter and stockier than most OLBs, probably. Parcells said on his radio show when talking about OLBs that the average NFL OLB is 6-2.5, but he prefers his outside backers be taller, more like 6-4.

And I don't know if he can grow into being a tougher, more physical player. Like the old saying goes, if they don't bite when they're puppies, they're probably not going to bite.

 

[tomson75]

Of course he "could" end up going to another team and become a significant player for them, but I doubt it though.

I don't.

Think Shanle, Fowler, and Fujita. All limited to special teams and backup duty during their tenure with Dallas...all starters on their current teams with varying levels of success. Even Boiman has carved out a niche in a defferent scheme with the Colts. It's definitely not an unreasonable idea.

 

[Beast_from_East]

He was moved inside because he was unable to win the job book ending Ware. Thats the only reason he was moved inside. He has the size. Didnt work but I get why they tried.

I do like him on STs. I know thats not where we want our 1st round bust, I mean pick, but lets get something out of him. And we are. If his role is ST because out starters are better, I can live with that for the remainder of the year.

Dude, you are depressing me here.

You telling me we just burned a first rounder on a kick coverage guy

I am going to go cry now, thanks buddy

 

[Beast_from_East]

I think he's been a massive disappointment. Thought he'd be a great fit for the defense.

He's always been compared to Vrabel. Although Vrabel was a third round pick, he didn't really start much until his fourth year.

EVERYBODY missed the boat on Bobby. I remember before the draft, he was was very highly rated and was graded out about where we took him. There was no "reach" with Bobby.

Also, most analyst called him "the safest pick in the draft".

So, I cant critize Jerry or the Boyz scouts on this one, EVERYBODY though Bobby was a good pick. That is just how it goes sometimes, a guy that you draft where he is actually graded out to go and most analyst are postive on, sometimes just cant make the transition to the NFL for some reason.

It sucks, but that is the draft for you, 50/50 most of the time

 

[Beast_from_East]

I doubt this. If the team saw Carpenter as a viable OLB option then Spencer wouldn't have been our target in the draft - Carp wasn't getting much time outside, even with Ellis out.

But hey, he's developing into a great ST player.

You make a good point. I think the Boyz realized that Carpenter would never be an edge rusher in the Phillups 34. The Boyz also did not know about Ellis, was he coming back and would he even be the same player?

We all saw last year when Ware was the only legit rusher in the game, he was double and tripled teamed every freaking play and the secondary got exposed.

So the team had to "buy some insurance" if you will. They had to have somebody else that could bring some pressure besides Ware if Ellis was done. That is why Spencer was drafted.

So in reality, whiffing on Carpenter cost the team 2 first rounders since we had to draft another linebacker to make up for it. I know it sucks, but sometimes that is how it goes.

 

[theogt]

EVERYBODY missed the boat on Bobby. I remember before the draft, he was was very highly rated and was graded out about where we took him. There was no "reach" with Bobby.

Also, most analyst called him "the safest pick in the draft".

So, I cant critize Jerry or the Boyz scouts on this one, EVERYBODY though Bobby was a good pick. That is just how it goes sometimes, a guy that you draft where he is actually graded out to go and most analyst are postive on, sometimes just cant make the transition to the NFL for some reason.

It sucks, but that is the draft for you, 50/50 most of the time

Very few people had Bobby rated that high. It was almost universally considered a "slight reach."

 

[Beast_from_East]

Very few people had Bobby rated that high. It was almost universally considered a "slight reach."

I thought Bobby and Hawk were both graded as first rounders by most draft publications.

I stand corrected then.

 

[theogt]

I thought Bobby and Hawk were both graded as first rounders by most draft publications.

I stand corrected then.

Hawk was. Bobby was a borderline first rounder. At 18, it was considered a reach. Probably should have gone, at most, 25+.

 

[dallasfan]

Hawk was. Bobby was a borderline first rounder. At 18, it was considered a reach. Probably should have gone, at most, 25+.

Bobby was definately considered a first rounder, but as pointed out he was supposed to be a late first rounder, not a mid first rounder.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I'm always a bit weary of 'can't miss' guys coming out of the same position as other 'can't miss' guys (A.J. Hawk).

However Carp just got handed a poor set of cards as far as changing positions, and playing behind such a deep group of LBs. Looking at the 2006 draft, only guy in round 1 after Carp that is shaking up the world is Santonio Holmes. I'm not gonna call him a bust, more of a push, trading out of that pick was the best call for such a weak draft class. Hindsight is 20/20 though, so we're stuck with the porno-stache for a while.

 

[Nors]

Lawson is a big time athlete - he blew his ACL early in season. So that means he sucks - LOL

 

[theogt]

I'm always a bit weary of 'can't miss' guys coming out of the same position as other 'can't miss' guys (A.J. Hawk).

However Carp just got handed a poor set of cards as far as changing positions, and playing behind such a deep group of LBs. Looking at the 2006 draft, only guy in round 1 after Carp that is shaking up the world is Santonio Holmes. I'm not gonna call him a bust, more of a push, trading out of that pick was the best call for such a weak draft class. Hindsight is 20/20 though, so we're stuck with the porno-stache for a while.

There are more than that if you look into the early 2nd round. Hell, there's a DROY and pro bowler picked behind him. Beyond that there's more than a handful of pretty good starters, including a starter on the SB champ.