Is a Manziel trade already in the works?

[Manwiththeplan]

If Manziel was coming out this year he would be picked ahead of Lynch. Your statement that he has not been good is based on a small number of starts on one of the worst teams in the league with no receivers. But despite that he has been playing fairly well and will continue to develop as the game slows down around him. Manziel makes a better prospect than Lynch.

Manziel wasn't picked ahead of Bortles who is a very similar prospect to Lynch. Same conference, similar size and athletic abilities and if you look at the numbers, they're even similar. Considering this, what did you base your statement on?

Of course it is doubtful that Ramsey ends up being as good as Ed Reed but he is certainly one of the best Safety's to come out in years. I for one am tired of the Wilcox experiment but maybe we find a replacement elsewhere.

Ed Reed is just a horrible comparison, and you're not the only person to do that. He may be good in coverage, but he just isn't a playmaker.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

There is a reason why Brees is one of the highest paid players in the league. I simply said he is the same height. You seemed to believe it mattered.

It does matter, but I didn't mention height.

 

[darthseinfeld]

You determined that based on 6 games? He might just improve as the game slows down around him.

He has decent arm, but not one that can every singles throw in the NFL. You can see some throws he just can generate the velocity to get the ball in the right spot with the right trajectory. His accuracy isnt at all consistent either. He makes poor use of the pocket at times, and that is something he needs to be exceptional at at his height. He is also very undisplined with the ball both running and passing and that has made him turnover prone.

Watching him I just dont see a player that is ever going to be a franchise type QB. I see a guy that if he makes significant improvements can be as good as Tyrod Taylor. Now whether or not he is the type of person that has the discipline to improve is a whole nother question

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You determined that based on 6 games? He might just improve as the game slows down around him.

The problem is, franchise QBs are rare, but what's even more rare, is the opportunity to draft one. Just think, who was the last franchise QB for Washington? How bout Chicago, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, San Francisco, St. Louis, Miami, Buffalo, NY Jets, Cleveland, Tennessee, Houston, Oakland, Kansas City? Some of those teams hope they have that guy now, but odds are between Cousins, Bridgewater, Winston, Mariotta and Carr, several will end up being average at best, similar to what Miami is seeing now with Tannehill.

So if your scouts say Lynch has franchise potential, but needs 2-3 years, you take him and you don't let a guy who has up until now, failed to show he is a franchise QB even enter into the equation.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Manziel wasn't picked ahead of Bortles who is a very similar prospect to Lynch. Same conference, similar size and athletic abilities and if you look at the numbers, they're even similar. Considering this, what did you base your statement on?



Ed Reed is just a horrible comparison, and you're not the only person to do that. He may be good in coverage, but he just isn't a playmaker.

I think Lynch is rich mans Blake Bortles.

Manziel is a late first/early second round picin any draft. And my evaluation of him is as a 3rd round talent who goes higher due to being a QB

 

[Manwiththeplan]

He has decent arm, but not one that can every singles throw in the NFL. You can see some throws he just can generate the velocity to get the ball in the right spot with the right trajectory. His accuracy isnt at all consistent either. He makes poor use of the pocket at times, and that is something he needs to be exceptional at at his height. He is also very undisplined with the ball both running and passing and that has made him turnover prone.

Watching him I just dont see a player that is ever going to be a franchise type QB. I see a guy that if he makes significant improvements can be as good as Tyrod Taylor. Now whether or not he is the type of person that has the discipline to improve is a whole nother question

which sums it up for me. if he dedicates him self, I think he can be a journey man QB. always will have a job either a back-up behind a good QB or a starter on a team that isn't going far. Put a good enough team around him, he *could* have Alex Smith type success (more plays down field obviously, but he'd never be as accurate either). And given his off field issues, there's no reason to suggest that is a given.

 

[darthseinfeld]

It does matter, but I didn't mention height.

If you are short you need to be able to make good use of the pocket to see passing lanes. Its something Brees and Wilson are exceptional at and something Manziel is still very inconsistent at. I do think he can improve

 

[Killerinstinct]

Manziel wasn't picked ahead of Bortles who is a very similar prospect to Lynch. Same conference, similar size and athletic abilities and if you look at the numbers, they're even similar. Considering this, what did you base your statement on?



Ed Reed is just a horrible comparison, and you're not the only person to do that. He may be good in coverage, but he just isn't a playmaker.

Bortles showed the ability to win some big games. Beat no 8 louiseville and then knocked off no 6 Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl and the timing could not have been better as it caused his stock to rise going into the draft. Lynch has not demonstrated this ability. Lynch seems to me like the kind of college QB that feasts on inferior opponents padding his stats. There are things to like about him. He is big and Physical and has a strong arm. He doesn't throw particularly well on the move and he is a guy that wasn't highly recruited and came out of nowhere. Possibly a product of the system. One which I am not particularly fond of with most of his passes being under 10 yards and a huge chunk of them being dinks and dunks behind the line of scrimmage. His style reminds me in some ways of the old run and shoot QB's which is odd for a guy his size. Anyway, I think he is a mixed bag and very risky. But that is just my opinion.

Ramsey has all of the tools to be an elite player and can develop into a play maker. Similar physical skills as Byron Jones but admittedly has not been a ball hawk yet. Maybe he never becomes one and he is just one player that might be there at 4 that fills a need. My point is taking a Lynch at 4 means missing out on an immediate impact player that can help the team while he rides the pines and MIGHT develop into a starting caliber QB.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Bortles showed the ability to win some big games. Beat no 8 louiseville and then knocked off no 6 Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl and the timing could not have been better as it caused his stock to rise going into the draft. Lynch has not demonstrated this ability.

He beat at the time, 13th ranked Mississippi.

Lynch seems to me like the kind of college QB that fests on inferior opponents padding his stats. There are things to like about him. He is big and Physical and has a strong arm. He doesn't throw particularly well on the move and he is a guy that wasn't highly recruited and came out of nowhere. Possibly a product of the system. One which I am not particularly fond of with most of his passes being under 10 yards and a huge chunk of them being dinks and dunks behind the line of scrimmage. His style reminds me in some ways of the old run and shoot QB's which is odd for a guy his size. Anyway, I think he is a mixed bag and very risky. But that is just my opinion.

If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion

Ramsey has all of the tools to be an elite player and can develop into a play maker. Similar physical skills as Byron Jones but admittedly has not been a ball hawk yet. Maybe he never becomes one and he is just one player that might be there at 4 that fills a need. My point is taking a Lynch at 4 means missing out on an immediate impact player that can help the team while he rides the pines and MIGHT develop into a starting caliber QB.

Ramsey is no more of a guarantee to be immediately ready to make an impact than any other top prospect, including Lynch, who very easily could be the top QB taken of Goff. 0 ints this season and only 1 last year, is alarming. And not an, ok, he won't be Ed Reed, but still elite kinda way. I don't know how scouts will ultimately rank the top 4-5 players, but I really don't think anyone is heads and shoulders above the pack this year, including Bosa.

I get the logic your trying to sell, needing a QB, doesn't mean you pass on a Calvin Johnson, Ndamakun Suh, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, ect. But I don't see JBosa, JRamsely, JMyles, VHargroves, JSmith or JTunsil as those type of prospects. And this isn't to say that Goff and Lynch are Andre Luck, but this is not a year where the top 5-6 prospects are non QBs, all 7 will likely have similar grades after the pro day season.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Ramsey is no more of a guarantee to be immediately ready to make an impact than any other top prospect, including Lynch, who very easily could be the top QB taken of Goff

I guess we will find out which one makes more of an immediate impact. I hope Lynch looks like a keeper holding that clipboard.

 

[joseephuss]

I believe he has only started 6 games this year. So a 33% winning percentage is pretty decent on a team that wins at a twenty something percent clip. Besides he just ran out of time last week and is the only reason Cle was in the game vs KC. It would appear that Cle is so afraid he will beat the Steelers they came up with a concussion excuse.

Manziel has started 8 games with the Browns winning only 2. That is 25%. Weeden started 20 games in Cleveland winning only 5. That is also 25%. Weeden is labeled a loser.

"Just rant out of time." That is funny.

 

[Hoofbite]

Although technically a team can not agree to trade a player to another team after the trade deadline has passed, it happens a lot, just unofficially behind close door, and cannot actually take place until February.

Yeah, sure it does.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So sick of Manziel to Dallas threads...

I already hate them more than the "A.P. to Dallas" threads last offseason.

 

[pjtoadie]

I know it's ESPN and John Clayton but he thinks Manziel is for sure done in Cleveland and they'll look to trade him for a 5th or 6th rounder and he mentioned Dallas.

 

[Sydla]

"Combine that with the off-the-field issues and Cleveland has zero leverage in this situation, I don't see it happening. They might get a 6th rounder for Manziel at best."

This is not true at all. The off field issues are minor and he is playing better than most realize. He is not a finished product by any means but he is way ahead of any rookie that could be brought in. He also has a very favorable contract. One that a team could afford even if they already have a franchise QB on the roster like Dallas does.

Minor?

I get you are a big Manziel guy but his off the field problems aren't "minor" especially when considering he keeps talking about how he's changed and then finds himself in trouble again.

He's a clown. Plain and simple.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Im sorry but you are picking a Safety in the top he better be a legitimate playmaker, not a player who isnt but could possibly develope into one later. Ramsey is well behind where Berry and Thomas were as prospects and neither of them went #4. I dont even see Ramsey as a top 10 prospect

 

[kevm3]

Whatever qb that lands on the browns will look like garbage. Year after year, they are loading up on qbs instead of building an infrastructure that will actually allow the qb to succeed. Who is goff going to do there when he's forced to play his first year, getting hit every other play and when he has nobody to throw to because they have no receivers? Then they'll think the qb is the problem and go draft another one high the next couple of years for the cycle to start all over again.

If Jerry gets Manziel for a 5th rounder or so and can get the guy to clean up, that would be a steal. It allows us to use all of the other high picks to stack this team and possibly give Romo another shot while also filling this team with talent for the next in line.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Whatever qb that lands on the browns will look like garbage. Year after year, they are loading up on qbs instead of building an infrastructure that will actually allow the qb to succeed. Who is goff going to do there when he's forced to play his first year, getting hit every other play and when he has nobody to throw to because they have no receivers? Then they'll think the qb is the problem and go draft another one high the next couple of years for the cycle to start all over again.

If Jerry gets Manziel for a 5th rounder or so and can get the guy to clean up, that would be a steal. It allows us to use all of the other high picks to stack this team and possibly give Romo another shot while also filling this team with talent for the next in line.

I do agree to a certain extent. Even Goff, who right now is the #1 QB, would benefit from sitting a year, if for no other reason than to work on his footwork. If I'm Cleveland, I likely still keep Manziel, even if I use the #2 pick on a QB.

 

[DallasBlockersClub]

I am not buying the concussion. He almost beat a superior Chiefs team last week with almost no help on the offensive side of the ball. They are in tank mode. If so, it is likely to have the choice of QB's in the draft.

Dallas doesn't need a rookie that has no shot of winning now and they don't need an older established vet that has reached his full potential and will never be Romo's eventual replacement.

They need a guy like Manziel. He is worth the early 3rd round pick allowing us to use two premium picks to address other needs with impact players.

Manziel has a great pocket presence and his mobility allows receivers to get open down field which leads to big plays. He also can get first downs with his legs. He is going to get better too but he is already ahead of any rookie we could bring in. He could win games now if Romo went down.

I hope Jerry Does it. It would not surprise me at all.

Manziel is absolutely NOT worth the early 3rd round pick.

 

[IAmLegend]

And here we go..