Is a Manziel trade already in the works?

[Killerinstinct]

even without his off field issues, Goff and Lynch look to be better prospects.

You think Goff and Lynch can come off the bench next year and win games?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You think Goff and Lynch can come off the bench next year and win games?

Possibly, however, me saying they are better prospects is not the same as saying they are better than Manziel right now. By next year, he would have been through 3 NFL training camps, so I'd expect him to be a head of them, however, basing a decision like who to spend the #4 pick on, on who would be better immediately is really short sighted.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Possibly, however, me saying they are better prospects is not the same as saying they are better than Manziel right now. By next year, he would have been through 3 NFL training camps, so I'd expect him to be a head of them, however, basing a decision like who to spend the #4 pick on, on who would be better immediately is really short sighted.

O.K. So you believe Goff and Lynch will someday be better than Manziel. I could see that possibly. Especially Goff. So who do we sign to be the backup next year so if/when Romo gets injured we don't end up throwing the entire season away?

Also if you use your 1st rd pick on Goff or Lynch then you lose out on the best LB in the draft or the best WR in the draft or the best CB or the best safety etc etc.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

"Manziel has marginal NFL talent"

I hope he gets a chance to play on a team where he has a better supporting cast. I think he is playing about as well as a QB could in the situation he is in. Playing well enough that the team is afraid that if he plays, they will beat the steelers.

meh, we've seen really good QBs elevate the talent around them, so I hope we can at least agree Manziel hasn't done that.

also, fwiw, Manziel is playing behind one of the better offensive lines in football. Joe Thomas, Alex Mack are two of the better players at their position. And while he's not as good as Zack Martin, Cleveland guard Joel Bitonio is a future pro-bowler. The skill players are meh, but the team plays about the same when he's not in.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

O.K. So you believe Goff and Lynch will someday be better than Manziel. I could see that possibly. Especially Goff. So who do we sign to be the backup next year so if/when Romo gets injured we don't end up throwing the entire season away?

Also if you use your 1st rd pick on Goff or Lynch then you lose out on the best LB in the draft or the best WR in the draft or the best CB or the best safety etc etc.

I would say someday soon, but either way. we should not emphasize next year too much. Getting a good back-up would be fine, but if Romo misses 12 next year, it's a throw away season anyway. And if your scouts tell you Goff or Lynch have franchise potential, you don't care about losing the best LB in a draft.

 

[Killerinstinct]

I would say someday soon, but either way. we should not emphasize next year too much. Getting a good back-up would be fine, but if Romo misses 12 next year, it's a throw away season anyway. And if your scouts tell you Goff or Lynch have franchise potential, you don't care about losing the best LB in a draft.

I agree to a certain extent. With Goff anyway. I think he does have the potential to be a franchise QB. But I also think Manziel has that potential too. Besides Cle will be picking ahead of us. What if they take the QB we believe has franchise potential? We end up with the no 2 option at pick no 4? Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer Geno Smith, Jake Locker, Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinert, Byron Leftwich, Joey Harrington.

Some of the 2nd qb's taken in the draft. Manziel was also the 2nd qb taken the year he was drafted but there is a big diff between using our no 4 pick vs a 3rd rd pick.

Jalen Ramsey
Jeremy Cash
Johnny Manziel

or

Lynch
Cash
Henry

Just as an example.

Or if you have addressed your QB need with a trade then that no 4 pick becomes an attractive trade chip for anyone wanting to jump ahead of SF for the no 2 qb in the draft. I say let someone else have Lynch.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I agree to a certain extent. With Goff anyway. I think he does have the potential to be a franchise QB. But I also think Manziel has that potential too. Besides Cle will be picking ahead of us. What if they take the QB we believe has franchise potential? We end up with the no 2 option at pick no 4? Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer Geno Smith, Jake Locker, Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinert, Byron Leftwich, Joey Harrington.

Some of the 2nd qb's taken in the draft. Manziel was also the 2nd qb taken the year he was drafted but there is a big diff between using our no 4 pick vs a 3rd rd pick.

Not sure what the point of rattling off a bunch of 2nd QBs taken was, I can do that to. Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, Joe Flacco, Phillip Rivers and Donovan McNabb

Jalen Ramsey
Jeremy Cash
Johnny Manziel

or

Lynch
Cash
Henry

Just as an example.

Or if you have addressed your QB need with a trade then that no 4 pick becomes an attractive trade chip for anyone wanting to jump ahead of SF for the no 2 qb in the draft. I say let someone else have Lynch.

If Lynch becomes a franchise QB, then that trumps just about anything Ramsey could do

 

[Killerinstinct]

Not sure what the point of rattling off a bunch of 2nd QBs taken was, I can do that to. Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, Joe Flacco, Phillip Rivers and Donovan McNabb




If Lynch becomes a franchise QB, then that trumps just about anything Ramsey could do

That's a big "IF"

What if Manziel becomes a franchise QB and Ramsey ends up being Ed Reed and Lynch ends up being Leaf or Quinn?

 

[joseephuss]

Guys do grow up. Besides how would Meredith, Namath and Stabler do in this era where the tabloid media is all about trying to destroy people? Manziel drinks. O.K. So do I! Don't get me wrong, I grew up idolizing Staubach and he is about as solid of a human being as you could ask for and you never had to worry about character issues but Manziel has some skills and he is going to mature and he will get better. I like him better than any of the QB prospects this year and I really want to use our premium picks on some players that can contribute now.

Meredith, Namath and Stabler were all bigger and had stronger arms than Manziel.

 

[joseephuss]

One of the biggest complaints I heard about Brandon Weeden is that he was a loser. He won only 5 games during his first two years in Cleveland. Manziel has won only 2.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Meredith, Namath and Stabler were all bigger and had stronger arms than Manziel.

The post was in response to the drinking/Partying.

Not their physical stature or arm strength.

Manziel is the same height as Drew Brees. His arm is plenty strong enough. He also has the ability to improvise and turn nothing into a big play.

 

[Killerinstinct]

One of the biggest complaints I heard about Brandon Weeden is that he was a loser. He won only 5 games during his first two years in Cleveland. Manziel has won only 2.

I believe he has only started 6 games this year. So a 33% winning percentage is pretty decent on a team that wins at a twenty something percent clip. Besides he just ran out of time last week and is the only reason Cle was in the game vs KC. It would appear that Cle is so afraid he will beat the Steelers they came up with a concussion excuse.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That's a big "IF"

What if Manziel becomes a franchise QB and Ramsey ends up being Ed Reed and Lynch ends up being Leaf or Quinn?

To be honest, Manziel is the biggest "IF" by far because we've seen him on the pro level and he has not been good. Lynch of course is far from a sure thing, but I don't think his bust potential is any higher than any other prospect in this drarft.

And Ramsey isn't even comparable to Ed Reed as a prospect coming out of Miami. He'll get picked much higher, mainly due to how the NFL viewed safeties in 2002 vs 2016, but Ed Reed 21 career ints with 4 going back for TDs in 4 years at Miami. 8 as a junior (2 TDs) and 9 as a senior (2 TDs). Jalen Ramsey has 3, through his junior season, none of which came this year. Ramsey may certainly become a good safety or corner, where ever he ends up at, and could even be an all pro safety, but he will not suddenly develop a nose for the football that will cause people top compare him to Ed Reed.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The post was in response to the drinking/Partying.

Not their physical stature or arm strength.

Manziel is the same height as Drew Brees. His arm is plenty strong enough. He also has the ability to improvise and turn nothing into a big play.

Not nearly as accurate, not nearly as good of a decision maker, and has shown no indication that he will dedicate himself the way Brees does.

 

[Killerinstinct]

To be honest, Manziel is the biggest "IF" by far because we've seen him on the pro level and he has not been good. Lynch of course is far from a sure thing, but I don't think his bust potential is any higher than any other prospect in this drarft.

And Ramsey isn't even comparable to Ed Reed as a prospect coming out of Miami. He'll get picked much higher, mainly due to how the NFL viewed safeties in 2002 vs 2016, but Ed Reed 21 career ints with 4 going back for TDs in 4 years at Miami. 8 as a junior (2 TDs) and 9 as a senior (2 TDs). Jalen Ramsey has 3, through his junior season, none of which came this year. Ramsey may certainly become a good safety or corner, where ever he ends up at, and could even be an all pro safety, but he will not suddenly develop a nose for the football that will cause people top compare him to Ed Reed.

If Manziel was coming out this year he would be picked ahead of Lynch. Your statement that he has not been good is based on a small number of starts on one of the worst teams in the league with no receivers. But despite that he has been playing fairly well and will continue to develop as the game slows down around him. Manziel makes a better prospect than Lynch. Goff might be a different story. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I guess we will find out over time. Whomever we end up with, I hope it works out for the best. If Romo go's down next year and Lynch has to come in I fear he would play at a much lower level than Manziel would but again, just opinion and conjecture. I guess the opinion that matters is Jerry and those around him.

Of course it is doubtful that Ramsey ends up being as good as Ed Reed but he is certainly one of the best Safety's to come out in years. I for one am tired of the Wilcox experiment but maybe we find a replacement elsewhere.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Not nearly as accurate, not nearly as good of a decision maker, and has shown no indication that he will dedicate himself the way Brees does.

There is a reason why Brees is one of the highest paid players in the league. I simply said he is the same height. You seemed to believe it mattered.

 

[darthseinfeld]

You think Goff and Lynch can come off the bench next year and win games?

Matt Ryan won 11 games as a rookie QB

 

[darthseinfeld]

After watching all of Manziel's starts this year, his upside is a poor mans Tyrod Taylor.

He has the ability to be a decent starter in NFL. Not the ability to be a franchise QB

 

[Killerinstinct]

After watching all of Manziel's starts this year, his upside is a poor mans Tyrod Taylor.

He has the ability to be a decent starter in NFL. Not the ability to be a franchise QB

You determined that based on 6 games? He might just improve as the game slows down around him.

 

[Killerinstinct]

Matt Ryan won 11 games as a rookie QB

Yes and I think Goff might be able to win sooner rather than later. Lynch though looks like a guy that will need years of grooming.