Is a team wrong to use the Franchise Tag?

[Reid1boys]

There are some greater examples out there the Cowboys can aspire too. And at least these other franchises have an opportunity to finally get it right .

Those arguing that hanging around the rim without more playoff success are pandering to our owners agendas.

And if your argument is these other successful models to follow all hover around an Elite QB then why hasn’t our ownership been more pursuant of an Elite QB instead of content with less than Elite QB’s like Romo and Prescott.

Two things:
1) You cant pander to people that never read a word you say.

2) With the exception of the sure thing QB like Manning... Peyton that is, The niners lucked into Montana, The ptas lucked into Brady, The Chiefs lucked into Mahomes.... yes, LUCK. They were smart in that they took a gamble on a guy and it HIT, but if teams thought Mahomes would be Mahomes, he wouldnt have been around that late for the Chiefs to take him.

And my point was simple.. I am a fan and if this team wins a SB (which I would love) it isnt changing my life in the slightest. Sure, you talk smack for a week and then it fades away , next season starts, and thats it. So Id rather have a team in the hunt more times then not, then a team like the Falcons that lucked out in one season, made it and lost the SB, then returned to nothingness again like they had been for the previous 25 seasons.

I enjoy football season, I enjoy the games and the hunt. How much hunt has the fans of 35% of the league had in the past 30 years?? How would you like to be a Browns fans? Chargers... and on and on, but *** am I doing. You and I have been down this road at least a dozen times over the years.

You know our current setup works for you. I think you love being able to write critical posts covering so many topics. If we actually won a SB, wth would you be able to talk about?

 

[blueblood70]

I wish we had real football people running things... like the Giants.

or the browns not even a DIUV title since 1986 i beleive .. There sure is a lot of regular GM's being beat by the Dallas Cowboys given that they're top 6 in regular season wins the last decade been the playoffs 5 out of the last eight years with Prescott no losing seasons I realize things could be better and I wish they were but it could be far worse that should be the learning lesson here the whole grass is greener on the other side they all want Jerry to step down sell the team because instantly we will start winning Super Bowls because that's what all the other teams have done over the last 28 years while we've been in hibernation..

Ohh wait the reality is the Dallas Cowboys are still one of only three teams that have three Super Bowl wins or more since 1989 the other two are the chiefs and the patriots we're still third all time in Super Bowl wins it's kind of odd after 28 years teams are not catching up and as much as I would like to go back to an NFC championship game like right now I mean the 49ers looks like the gold standard right no pun intended maybe it is but they haven't won a Super Bowl since 1994 that's longer than us so as much as it's been said about Jerry Jones true or not true our teams in a much better spot than many teams in the NFL. We may struggle against three of them and that's what's been holding us back but still they act like we're A 5 win team the way people complain.

 

[Diehardblues]

Two things:
1) You cant pander to people that never read a word you say.

2) With the exception of the sure thing QB like Manning... Peyton that is, The niners lucked into Montana, The ptas lucked into Brady, The Chiefs lucked into Mahomes.... yes, LUCK. They were smart in that they took a gamble on a guy and it HIT, but if teams thought Mahomes would be Mahomes, he wouldnt have been around that late for the Chiefs to take him.

And my point was simple.. I am a fan and if this team wins a SB (which I would love) it isnt changing my life in the slightest. Sure, you talk smack for a week and then it fades away , next season starts, and thats it. So Id rather have a team in the hunt more times then not, then a team like the Falcons that lucked out in one season, made it and lost the SB, then returned to nothingness again like they had been for the previous 25 seasons.

I enjoy football season, I enjoy the games and the hunt. How much hunt has the fans of 35% of the league had in the past 30 years?? How would you like to be a Browns fans? Chargers... and on and on, but *** am I doing. You and I have been down this road at least a dozen times over the years.

You know our current setup works for you. I think you love being able to write critical posts covering so many topics. If we actually won a SB, wth would you be able to talk about?

First of all you are the kind of fan that Jethro loves if you’re content with this era. One of his strongest supporters I’ve seen on this site.

The more I hear of your support for our owner makes me question if you were around for previous eras. Or just want to feel good about it to justify traveling to see the team.

And in those eras I was as supportive a fan could be as a season ticket holder and traveling to road games as well boasting how awesome our organization was.

During those glory eras we had very little to criticize. We did have some off seasons and issues we did critique . That’s the nature of critical minds is to offer thoughts when it appears we need new direction and leadership,

It was a life I lived very passionately planning my life around the Cowboys for 5 months a year from Training Camp to Playoffs and Super Bowls.

While I continue following and supporting from a distance and proud of our history I’m not proud of our current situation and leadership.

And most Cowboy fans I’ve known for 50+ years have similar apathetic feelings.

 

[Flamma]

how many top players have you seen get tagged and then eventually walk away to another team? Ive seen Bell and cousins. Worked well for cousins, not so well for Bell... but that is two players that I could think of. Teams need to start using the tools at their disposal to help in these "Negotiations."

He wants 40 because it's early in his contract. If he got a 4 year 160M contract now, the average cap hit would be almost the same as if Lamb got a 4 year 140M dollar contract. If Chase just accepted 35M a year now, it would actually help the team.

 

[blueblood70]

He wants 40 because it's early in his contract. If he got a 4 year 160M contract now, the average cap hit would be almost the same as if Lamb got a 4 year 140M dollar contract. If Chase just accepted 35M a year now, it would actually help the team.

but he hasnt but fans here think Lamb would have taken cheaper deal same with Dak , NOT TRUE. Players and agents have changed, and they KNOW its shorter deal like3 yeas if you want a better deal if you want the 4+ its top money or they wait and know the market will explode. Lamb did this not the jones family, THIS TIME..they wanted to see what Chase or JJ got and then said ok heres what i want.

 

[Flamma]

but he hasnt but fans here think Lamb would have taken cheaper deal same with Dak , NOT TRUE. Players and agents have changed, and they KNOW its shorter deal like3 yeas if you want a better deal if you want the 4+ its top money or they wait and know the market will explode. Lamb did this not the jones family, THIS TIME..they wanted to see what Chase or JJ got and then said ok heres what i want.

There's also a little risk on those three year deals too. For the player. Those short deals can benefit the team if the player doesn't live up to their contract. It benefits the player if they do.

 

[Reid1boys]

He wants 40 because it's early in his contract. If he got a 4 year 160M contract now, the average cap hit would be almost the same as if Lamb got a 4 year 140M dollar contract. If Chase just accepted 35M a year now, it would actually help the team.

I dont care if it is early. There is a reason the CBA has the AGREED upon terms for 1st contracts. The players wanted this, and this is what they got. Now, years later we get to hear this whining about "Out performing" their deal. Sorry, no such thing. They are getting paid EXACTLY what the CBA calls for. The players want to have 1 set of rules for 99% of the players and then have the 1% get to have a separate set of rules.

 

[Reid1boys]

or the browns not even a DIUV title since 1986 i beleive .. There sure is a lot of regular GM's being beat by the Dallas Cowboys given that they're top 6 in regular season wins the last decade been the playoffs 5 out of the last eight years with Prescott no losing seasons I realize things could be better and I wish they were but it could be far worse that should be the learning lesson here the whole grass is greener on the other side they all want Jerry to step down sell the team because instantly we will start winning Super Bowls because that's what all the other teams have done over the last 28 years while we've been in hibernation..

Ohh wait the reality is the Dallas Cowboys are still one of only three teams that have three Super Bowl wins or more since 1989 the other two are the chiefs and the patriots we're still third all time in Super Bowl wins it's kind of odd after 28 years teams are not catching up and as much as I would like to go back to an NFC championship game like right now I mean the 49ers looks like the gold standard right no pun intended maybe it is but they haven't won a Super Bowl since 1994 that's longer than us so as much as it's been said about Jerry Jones true or not true our teams in a much better spot than many teams in the NFL. We may struggle against three of them and that's what's been holding us back but still they act like we're A 5 win team the way people complain.

this is EXACTLY my point.bBut I digress.... Jerry sucks, hes not a real football guy, and....blah, blah , blah.

 

[Reid1boys]

First of all you are the kind of fan that Jethro loves if you’re content with this era. One of his strongest supporters I’ve seen on this site.

The more I hear of your support for our owner makes me question if you were around for previous eras. Or just want to feel good about it to justify traveling to see the team.

And in those eras I was as supportive a fan could be as a season ticket holder and traveling to road games as well boasting how awesome our organization was.

During those glory eras we had very little to criticize. We did have some off seasons and issues we did critique . That’s the nature of critical minds is to offer thoughts when it appears we need new direction and leadership,

It was a life I lived very passionately planning my life around the Cowboys for 5 months a year from Training Camp to Playoffs and Super Bowls.

While I continue following and supporting from a distance and proud of our history I’m not proud of our current situation and leadership.

And most Cowboy fans I’ve known for 50+ years have similar apathetic feelings.

Critical minds? that is absolutely hilarious to me. A critical mind would look out and see the CURRENT landscape of the NFL. A critical mind would understand that the "Glory years," were played under no salary cap. A critical mind would see that these rules are designed to keep teams mediocre. A critical mind would see that teams RARELY are able to have runs like the old Steelers, Raiders, Dolphiins, Vikings, Bills and yes, our Cowboys.

Now, the only teams to have that kind of sustained success.... and her e we go again, something a "Critical mind would accept" is the FACT that without a generational QB, you are playing roulette in this league from season to season. The Chiefs immediately became dominanant the day one Patrick Mahomes arrived, so spare the absolute garbage about thei coach and front office. A coach that had coached for 746 years without a title, before Mahomes arrived.

 

[blueblood70]

There's also a little risk on those three year deals too. For the player. Those short deals can benefit the team if the player doesn't live up to their contract. It benefits the player if they do.

i disagree i don't see many teams doing it if at all because it doesn't allow void years or extra amount of time to spread the money out. it makes it tough to manipulate the salary cap without longer contracts.. i mean show me a list of all the teams that have implemented a three-year deal.... and i'm not talking about free agent types por PT rental type.. good to great players up for new deal.

 

[blueblood70]

Critical minds? that is absolutely hilarious to me. A critical mind would look out and see the CURRENT landscape of the NFL. A critical mind would understand that the "Glory years," were played under no salary cap. A critical mind would see that these rules are designed to keep teams mediocre. A critical mind would see that teams RARELY are able to have runs like the old Steelers, Raiders, Dolphiins, Vikings, Bills and yes, our Cowboys.

Now, the only teams to have that kind of sustained success.... and her e we go again, something a "Critical mind would accept" is the FACT that without a generational QB, you are playing roulette in this league from season to season. The Chiefs immediately became dominanant the day one Patrick Mahomes arrived, so spare the absolute garbage about thei coach and front office. A coach that had coached for 746 years without a title, before Mahomes arrived.

and you can add to that now players used to take a top five deal see how fast and quiet the Diggs deal was done, he took the 4th highest CB pay still top 5 a year later, made it easier to negotiate but NOW this " we want to be the highest paid non-qb in the league" waiting on others to set market before coming rto the table, is now making it twice as hard to get deals done sooner.

this is a terrible trendsetting contract demand...

 

[Reid1boys]

and you can add to that now players used to take a top five deal see how fast and quiet the Diggs deal was done, he took the 4th highest CB pay still top 5 a year later, made it easier to negotiate but NOW this " we want to be the highest paid non-qb in the league" waiting on others to set market before coming rto the table, is now making it twice as hard to get deals done sooner.

this is a terrible trendsetting contract demand...

and, they want short deals so they can get back to the table as soon as possible. They see the cap continuing to rise, so nope, I wants 3 year deal so I can hold you ahostage as soon as possible.

I agree, this is a terrible trend, and only teams using the CBA, ALA the franchise tag can stop it.

Unfortunately, most teams are weak and wont do it.

 

[Flamma]

I dont care if it is early. There is a reason the CBA has the AGREED upon terms for 1st contracts. The players wanted this, and this is what they got. Now, years later we get to hear this whining about "Out performing" their deal. Sorry, no such thing. They are getting paid EXACTLY what the CBA calls for. The players want to have 1 set of rules for 99% of the players and then have the 1% get to have a separate set of rules.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but I think you have a misunderstanding of how contracts work. Chase is not asking for more money in his current contract. He's asking for an extension following his current contract.

I'll make it short and sweet. Chase has 2 years left on his rookie deal that totals 31,622M. If he gets a 4 year 160M dollar extension, that doesn't start until 2026. You take that 160M, and add the 31,622 from his remaining rookie years. Then they spread out 191,622M over a 6 year period any way they like. Which adds up to an average of close to 32M a year against the cap. He's not asking for any extra money not afforded to him by the CBA.

 

[Flamma]

i disagree i don't see many teams doing it if at all because it doesn't allow void years or extra amount of time to spread the money out. it makes it tough to manipulate the salary cap without longer contracts.. i mean show me a list of all the teams that have implemented a three-year deal.... and i'm not talking about free agent types por PT rental type.. good to great players up for new deal.

Just off the top of my head, DeVonta Smith on the Eagles. Whoever that QB was for the Seahawks last year. He's good, not great. And you absolutely can use void years on a 3 year deal.

 

[Diehardblues]

Critical minds? that is absolutely hilarious to me. A critical mind would look out and see the CURRENT landscape of the NFL. A critical mind would understand that the "Glory years," were played under no salary cap. A critical mind would see that these rules are designed to keep teams mediocre. A critical mind would see that teams RARELY are able to have runs like the old Steelers, Raiders, Dolphiins, Vikings, Bills and yes, our Cowboys.

Now, the only teams to have that kind of sustained success.... and her e we go again, something a "Critical mind would accept" is the FACT that without a generational QB, you are playing roulette in this league from season to season. The Chiefs immediately became dominanant the day one Patrick Mahomes arrived, so spare the absolute garbage about thei coach and front office. A coach that had coached for 746 years without a title, before Mahomes arrived.

And if your argument is solely predicated on obtaining an Elite QB then the Cowboys organization and front office this era have failed.

There are a group of other teams who have had more success than the Cowboys this era without an Elite QB but for some reason you’re still more supportive of this ownerships level of success.

 

[Reid1boys]

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but I think you have a misunderstanding of how contracts work. Chase is not asking for more money in his current contract. He's asking for an extension following his current contract.

I'll make it short and sweet. Chase has 2 years left on his rookie deal that totals 31,622M. If he gets a 4 year 160M dollar extension, that doesn't start until 2026. You take that 160M, and add the 31,622 from his remaining rookie years. Then they spread out 191,622M over a 6 year period any way they like. Which adds up to an average of close to 32M a year against the cap. He's not asking for any extra money not afforded to him by the CBA.

I read the 1st paragraph, skipped the 2nd. I know exactly how these deals work. But if it was so simple and sweet, why wouldnt EVERY team lock up their guys after 3 years? Wh benefits from this? Especially when... and tri-ust me, this is where this is headed, Micah signs an extension right now for 5 years 240 million with 160 million guaranteed.

Then in 3 years from now, Micah is the 10th highest paid defender so he says Im not coming to camp (Martin) until you give me more money?

So my question about who is benefitting from this was really rhetorical.
Point being, the CBA spells out the rules to which the teams and players play by.

 

[Reid1boys]

And if your argument is solely predicated on obtaining an Elite QB then the Cowboys organization and front office this era have failed.

There are a group of other teams who have had more success than the Cowboys this era without an Elite QB but for some reason you’re still more supportive of this ownerships level of success.

no, I have explained what I think of your "More success argument."
And yea, the Cpwboys have failed at landing a Patrick Mahomes. Jones should be taken out back and .... well you know the story.

Only if we hired a real Gm, wed have Two Mahomes sitting on our roster.... one just in case the first goes down.

 

[Diehardblues]

no, I have explained what I think of your "More success argument."
And yea, the Cpwboys have failed at landing a Patrick Mahomes. Jones should be taken out back and .... well you know the story.

Only if we hired a real Gm, wed have Two Mahomes sitting on our roster.... one just in case the first goes down.

You continue to use the extreme examples to support your opinion but it actually falls more in the middle.

Theres been several franchises this era who have won or even played for Super Bowls without a Mahomes or Brady.

 

[Flamma]

I read the 1st paragraph, skipped the 2nd. I know exactly how these deals work. But if it was so simple and sweet, why wouldnt EVERY team lock up their guys after 3 years? Wh benefits from this? Especially when... and tri-ust me, this is where this is headed, Micah signs an extension right now for 5 years 240 million with 160 million guaranteed.

Then in 3 years from now, Micah is the 10th highest paid defender so he says Im not coming to camp (Martin) until you give me more money?

So my question about who is benefitting from this was really rhetorical.
Point being, the CBA spells out the rules to which the teams and players play by.

Why doesn't every team lock up their players after 3 years? Ask them. But if you think the Martin hold out was the same as Lamb's, you really do need to read the 2nd paragraph. It's not complicated at all. There are real life examples available for everyone to see. Just look at the Trevor Lawrence contract. It's exactly what my 2nd paragraph points out. You keep bringing up the CBA, and he's doing nothing to violate the CBA money wise. absolutely nothing. He is not asking for his rookie contract to be more money. Nor would he ever get more money in his rookie deal even if he had 2500 yards receiving. Rookie deals are written in stone.

 

[Flamma]

I'll try to make this as simple as possible.

Lets say you pay me 5 dollars a day all week. After Wednesday I hold out for an extension paying me 20 dollars a day next week. We have Thursday and Friday left at 5 each. That's 10. Plus the 100 next week adds up to 110. Now spread that 110 out any way you want for the next 7 days starting on Thursday. There's no extra money for week 1.