Is Garrett getting a pass for lack of discipline?

[gimmesix]

I think Garrett gets to voice his opinion like anyone else and its taken into account. But ultimately the Jones' make the decisions. Do I think they run to Garrett and give him final say? 100% no way do I believe that. I dont think Garrett wanted Gregory. Jones would have been smart to listen to him. I think Jones would be better off listening to Garretts RKG mantra, but he doesnt.

I agree with you to some extent, but don't believe Gregory would be here if Garrett had adamantly said no. I think it is more like Parcells has said about his dealings with Jones — they might not always agree on a move, but there's a difference in not agreeing and being adamantly against it. I saw no signs that Garrett was adamantly against it.

Does this look like a coach who was standing on the table protesting the pick?

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2015/05/01/secret-audio-randy-gregory-becomes-cowboy

 

[CowboyRoy]

I agree with you to some extent, but don't believe Gregory would be here if Garrett had adamantly said no. I think it is more like Parcells has said about his dealings with Jones — they might not always agree on a move, but there's a difference in not agreeing and being adamantly against it. I saw no signs that Garrett was adamantly against it.

Does this look like a coach who was standing on the table protesting the pick?

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2015/05/01/secret-audio-randy-gregory-becomes-cowboy

No it does not, but that is part of his job to call the guys. But go back and look at the tape when Gregory was actually picked. He doesnt look happy at all. In fact, he looks the opposite.

 

[gimmesix]

No it does not, but that is part of his job to call the guys. But go back and look at the tape when Gregory was actually picked. He doesnt look happy at all. In fact, he looks the opposite.

Not being happy is not the same as as saying no, I am adamantly opposed to drafting this player.

I think Parcells made it clear to Jones that he was very wary about signing Terrell Owens, but I don't think there's anything that indicates that he told Jones that he absolutely did not want the player. I think the Gregory situation, and the Hardy situation, and the McClain situation are possibly similar for Garrett so he can't wash his hands of them.

Now, I'm not a fan of Jones being the GM of our team, but I do believe his process now at least does consider the input of the scouts, the coaching staff and Stephen, where I don't believe that was always the case before Parcells was hired. Unless Garrett practically threw a fit and Jones ignored him, I can't absolve him of acquiescing to the pick. Like Parcells with the Owens signing, Garrett owns some of the responsibility as the head coach and not all of the blame goes to Jones. Marinelli seemed very happy with the pick, so it's possible he deserves more of the blame, or maybe even McClay does.

I'm not saying that ultimately it doesn't fall at Jones' feet, I just get tired of fans trying to throw all of Dallas' bad moves on him and credit all of Dallas' good moves to others. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[DFWJC]

the clapper

 

[Stash]

I've often been an outspoken critic of Garrett and in some areas, I still am, but he's not the least bit accountable for the mistakes these players are making.

This has absolutely nothing to do with him.

In fact, he's doing anything and everything he can personally for these sort of things to not happen.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Not being happy is not the same as as saying no, I am adamantly opposed to drafting this player.

I think Parcells made it clear to Jones that he was very wary about signing Terrell Owens, but I don't think there's anything that indicates that he told Jones that he absolutely did not want the player. I think the Gregory situation, and the Hardy situation, and the McClain situation are possibly similar for Garrett so he can't wash his hands of them.

Now, I'm not a fan of Jones being the GM of our team, but I do believe his process now at least does consider the input of the scouts, the coaching staff and Stephen, where I don't believe that was always the case before Parcells was hired. Unless Garrett practically threw a fit and Jones ignored him, I can't absolve him of acquiescing to the pick. Like Parcells with the Owens signing, Garrett owns some of the responsibility as the head coach and not all of the blame goes to Jones. Marinelli seemed very happy with the pick, so it's possible he deserves more of the blame, or maybe even McClay does.

I'm not saying that ultimately it doesn't fall at Jones' feet, I just get tired of fans trying to throw all of Dallas' bad moves on him and credit all of Dallas' good moves to others. It just doesn't work that way.

Not sure why you are comparing Garrett to Parcells. Parcells had much more control then Garrett does. Part of the dynamics when you know you have someone in charge is that you often wind up agreeing with them or acting like you agree with them, or dont put up much of a stink because you realize that you will look dumb doing it. I highly doubt that Garrett has ever told Jones he doesnt want anyone definitively. There is no way that Garrett has final say over personnel. Not a chance.

And then we get back to the RKG thing. Garrett is either a complete BS artist about RKG or he has little say in who they take on. Because lots of WKG's they sign, keep around, and draft.

 

[loublue22]

He's getting a free pass for being a bad coach

 

[Floatyworm]

Time to do a background check on Garrett....Jerry. Wouldn't shock me to see them both having huge skeletons in the closet. Would explain alot.

 

[gimmesix]

Not sure why you are comparing Garrett to Parcells. Parcells had much more control then Garrett does. Part of the dynamics when you know you have someone in charge is that you often wind up agreeing with them or acting like you agree with them, or dont put up much of a stink because you realize that you will look dumb doing it. I highly doubt that Garrett has ever told Jones he doesnt want anyone definitively. There is no way that Garrett has final say over personnel. Not a chance.

And then we get back to the RKG thing. Garrett is either a complete BS artist about RKG or he has little say in who they take on. Because lots of WKG's they sign, keep around, and draft.

No one said Garrett has final say. Parcells didn't even have final say. Both had a say and are complicit in the acquisitions the team makes. I think his say is much more than you believe it is. Jones makes the final decision based on the other voices in the war room.

There also seems to be an misinterpretation of what RKG means to Garrett. Frankly, it is the same thing Parcells was looking for, players who love football. The only player who didn't really fit that was McClain, and I believe the team (yes, that means Garrett, too) decided to take a relatively low-risk chance with him to give him a shot to show that he did. Fans attach some kind of morality clause or no-goofballs clause to RKG, but there isn't one. It's all about the desire to play and be part of the team.

Here's how Garrett defined it:

“We’re looking for the right kind of guy,” he said. “The right kind of guy, to us, is someone who loves to play football, who is very passionate about it, willing to work hard at it, willing to be part of a team, willing to be part of something that is maybe greater than himself.

“We want a guy who has an ego. Egos are important. But ego in the context of what we’re trying to accomplish as a team. Guys who are willing to work, are great teammates – there’s always going to be a place for those guys.”

 

[cowboyblue22]

I am not saying its garrett but when you keep having several players suspended year after year somewhere there is a problem within the organization its the players the coaches or the top of the ladder. I do know that other teams have the same problems so it may be a league wide thing but the cowboys sure have their share.

 

[Idgit]

...There also seems to be an misinterpretation of what RKG means to Garrett. Frankly, it is the same thing Parcells was looking for, players who love football. The only player who didn't really fit that was McClain, and I believe the team (yes, that means Garrett, too) decided to take a relatively low-risk chance with him to give him a shot to show that he did. Fans attach some kind of morality clause or no-goofballs clause to RKG, but there isn't one. It's all about the desire to play and be part of the team.

Here's how Garrett defined it:

“We’re looking for the right kind of guy,” he said. “The right kind of guy, to us, is someone who loves to play football, who is very passionate about it, willing to work hard at it, willing to be part of a team, willing to be part of something that is maybe greater than himself.

“We want a guy who has an ego. Egos are important. But ego in the context of what we’re trying to accomplish as a team. Guys who are willing to work, are great teammates – there’s always going to be a place for those guys.”

No matter how many times it's quoted, people will continue to intentionally take RKG and twist the definition into something it is not. And when you point it out, as you did here, it just gets ignored.

100% offseason participation. Players saying and doing the right things and parroting the things the coach says in the press constantly. Players like Zack Martin and Dez alking openly about how close the team is and the fact that they believe they're building something special. The fact that we get a 15 page thread this offseason about the mental state of the football team when all the evidence suggests it's one of the closest-knit lorckerrooms in the NFL is absurd.

We have issues in Dallas. They are with the quality of the defensive personnel. Not with the coaching staff. Not with team discipline. We get beat by really good teams because we can't stop their really good QBs often enough, period. Get more pressure, cover better, get deeper along the bottom of the 53, stay in contention, and see what happens. It's a pretty simple formula.

 

[gimmesix]

No matter how many times it's quoted, people will continue to intentionally take RKG and twist the definition into something it is not. And when you point it out, as you did here, it just gets ignored.

100% offseason participation. Players saying and doing the right things and parroting the things the coach says in the press constantly. Players like Zack Martin and Dez alking openly about how close the team is and the fact that they believe they're building something special. The fact that we get a 15 page thread this offseason about the mental state of the football team when all the evidence suggests it's one of the closest-knit lorckerrooms in the NFL is absurd.

We have issues in Dallas. They are with the quality of the defensive personnel. Not with the coaching staff. Not with team discipline. We get beat by really good teams because we can't stop their really good QBs often enough, period. Get more pressure, cover better, get deeper along the bottom of the 53, stay in contention, and see what happens. It's a pretty simple formula.

Yes, in saying that if we blame Jones, we should also blame Garrett, I don't mean that these suspensions are a big deal. I was only taking aim at those who are so blinded by their hatred that they cast all the bad things at Jones' feet while never crediting him for the good things when the truth is everyone in Dallas' front office bears some responsibility for both.

Suspensions happen. Not all risks pan out. It doesn't mean there's a lack of discipline. It doesn't mean the team is in shambles. It doesn't mean Garrett's a bad coach. (I maintain my position that he's a good head coach, at least in several aspects, but a bad coordinator, and am glad he's no longer a coordinator.)

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He's getting a free pass for being a bad coach

So what do you make of him getting CotY honors?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not sure why you are comparing Garrett to Parcells. Parcells had much more control then Garrett does. Part of the dynamics when you know you have someone in charge is that you often wind up agreeing with them or acting like you agree with them, or dont put up much of a stink because you realize that you will look dumb doing it. I highly doubt that Garrett has ever told Jones he doesnt want anyone definitively. There is no way that Garrett has final say over personnel. Not a chance.

And then we get back to the RKG thing. Garrett is either a complete BS artist about RKG or he has little say in who they take on. Because lots of WKG's they sign, keep around, and draft.

There are some pretty famous examples of Parcells not getting his way while in Dallas. Care to revisit them or you just going to go on with your narrative?

 

[big dog cowboy]

So what do you make of him getting CotY honors?

Bad coaches don't win these?

 

[Alexander]

Bad coaches don't win these?

I guess not.

He can join other all timers who have won it, like Lindy Infante, Dom Capers, Ray Rhodes, Dick Jauron, Jim Haslett and Marvin Lewis.

 

[CowboyRoy]

There are some pretty famous examples of Parcells not getting his way while in Dallas. Care to revisit them or you just going to go on with your narrative?

I dont recall ever saying that Parcells always got his way. My narrative is quite clear. Parcells had much more control then the hapless Garrett.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I guess not.

He can join other all timers who have won it, like Lindy Infante, Dom Capers, Ray Rhodes, Dick Jauron, Jim Haslett and Marvin Lewis.

LOL...........Coach of the year is a team success award nothing more.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No matter how many times it's quoted, people will continue to intentionally take RKG and twist the definition into something it is not. And when you point it out, as you did here, it just gets ignored.

100% offseason participation. Players saying and doing the right things and parroting the things the coach says in the press constantly. Players like Zack Martin and Dez alking openly about how close the team is and the fact that they believe they're building something special. The fact that we get a 15 page thread this offseason about the mental state of the football team when all the evidence suggests it's one of the closest-knit lorckerrooms in the NFL is absurd.

We have issues in Dallas. They are with the quality of the defensive personnel. Not with the coaching staff. Not with team discipline. We get beat by really good teams because we can't stop their really good QBs often enough, period. Get more pressure, cover better, get deeper along the bottom of the 53, stay in contention, and see what happens. It's a pretty simple formula.

Actually, its quite the opposite. The definition of RKG is clear as day. Everyone knows what RKG is: Hard working, leader types both on and off the field. Plays hard, trains hard and is an example to his team mates. Doesnt miss practice, loves to play the game, ect....ect..... Basically Jason Witten/Dak Prescott/Jaylon Smith/Sean Lee are prefect examples.

What has happened is over the years its been quite obvious to Garrett and EVERYONE that Jones doesnt bother subscribing to the RKG mantra. So in the face of constant badgering by the media, Garrett has been forced to dumb down his public definition in order to not look stupid. At this point it is dumb down to ONLY on the field behavior and loving to play the game.

Which even in that dumb down definition players like McClain and Gregory and others dont even fit in there.

By any standard of the definition of RKG, if players like McClain and Gregory fit into the definition then it is completely useless and meaningless.

There is obviously no length you wont go in order to defend your hero Garrett. In this instance there is simply no defending him.

And dont tell me that he tries to have RKG's and that all of them dont have to be RKG's. If they are not ALL RKG types then why even use the term. You either subscribe to it or you dont. Its not a theory or philosophy that you can choose to ignore whenever you like and still maintain credibility.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No one said Garrett has final say. Parcells didn't even have final say. Both had a say and are complicit in the acquisitions the team makes. I think his say is much more than you believe it is. Jones makes the final decision based on the other voices in the war room.

There also seems to be an misinterpretation of what RKG means to Garrett. Frankly, it is the same thing Parcells was looking for, players who love football. The only player who didn't really fit that was McClain, and I believe the team (yes, that means Garrett, too) decided to take a relatively low-risk chance with him to give him a shot to show that he did. Fans attach some kind of morality clause or no-goofballs clause to RKG, but there isn't one. It's all about the desire to play and be part of the team.

Here's how Garrett defined it:

“We’re looking for the right kind of guy,” he said. “The right kind of guy, to us, is someone who loves to play football, who is very passionate about it, willing to work hard at it, willing to be part of a team, willing to be part of something that is maybe greater than himself.

“We want a guy who has an ego. Egos are important. But ego in the context of what we’re trying to accomplish as a team. Guys who are willing to work, are great teammates – there’s always going to be a place for those guys.”

That is the dumb down, pathetic definition of RKG. Do you really need Garret to tell you what RKG means? I dont. Its pretty obvious what a RKG is.

Guys who are willing to work, are great teammates

Does Mcclain, Gregory fit into that definition? Definitely not.