Is Jerry Jones the new Al Davis?

[Bach]

Then came 2008. Given the current mess , Jerry's role in it, and his seeming indecision as to just how to rectify it I'm going to stop defending our GM/owner and wait for new evidence as to just how much he has learned.

Am I taking the definitive position of some who proclaim we'll never win a playoff game with Jones as GM? No. But I'm not going to engage them in discussion and try to point out otherwise. Been there, done that. If they want to cry doomsday, have at it.

Right now I will concede that it appears Jones creates certain additional obstacles to overcome. Maybe he'll take some effective corrective action. Maybe he'll set a tone at VR that supports the structures necessary to maximize potential. Maybe he'll learn on this front like he apparently did on the draft. I'll wait and see.

And I'll hope the collective rest of the organization can overcome enough to help us win a playoff game or more next year. We shall see.

Scary thing to say, but "its your move Jerry."

Some come to this realization at different points in time. It's a shame that it's gone on so long that even many of his staunchest supporters are even seeing the problems now.

One note though, I haven't noticed anyone claim we will never win another playoff game again. Then again, there are millions of Cowboys fans worldwide so it's possible someone somewhere has taken that definitive position, I just haven't seen it. I think we still have enough talent to get back to the playoffs and maybe win a game or even two at some point in the future. I just think winning a Super Bowl or even being serious contenders for it are looking bleak as long as Jerry keeps meddling and running things the way he has been.

Like I mentioned before my only hope is purely blind at this time. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and then, but I'm not expecting it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've been a Jerry Jones defender of sorts through the years. While I was absolutely willing to acknowledge the many mistakes he had made as GM (most notably the drafts of 1995 through 2001 excepting Ellis & Adams in 98) I was quick to also state that I believed he was learning from his mistakes and making the adjustments necessary to get us back in contention.

2003-2006 results on the field were validating that. The 2007 & 2008 drafts, sans Parcells and then Ireland lent further credence to Jerry's growth as GM. And though the 13-3 season ended in bitter disappointment it seemed a new page had truly been turned that would outlast even Parcells departure.

Then came 2008. Given the current mess , Jerry's role in it, and his seeming indecision as to just how to rectify it I'm going to stop defending our GM/owner and wait for new evidence as to just how much he has learned.

Am I taking the definitive position of some who proclaim we'll never win a playoff game with Jones as GM? No. But I'm not going to engage them in discussion and try to point out otherwise. Been there, done that. If they want to cry doomsday, have at it.

Right now I will concede that it appears Jones creates certain additional obstacles to overcome. Maybe he'll take some effective corrective action. Maybe he'll set a tone at VR that supports the structures necessary to maximize potential. Maybe he'll learn on this front like he apparently did on the draft. I'll wait and see.

And I'll hope the collective rest of the organization can overcome enough to help us win a playoff game or more next year. We shall see.

Scary thing to say, but "its your move Jerry."

Levity. I love it and thank you sir.

 

[FCBarca]

Yeah, I don't think it would be a fair comparison to make of Jerry...Al Davis has certain traits that separates him from most human beings let alone billionaire owners.

I think Jerry sincerely wants to do well with the club and wants the fans to love and respect the franchise...More than even making money, he certainly comes off as someone who wants the franchise to be successful...And from a fans perspective, I think that's pretty special, honestly.

It's clearly more about the manner in which he tries to achieve those objectives/goals and the 'risks' (Experience in oil perhaps?) he's willing to take that others would not...So in some respects he's not conservative enough or perhaps reflecting an apparent lack of integrity/ethics in some decisions...Personally, I think more than anything else, I think he's too much of a gambler on things and doesn't adhere to a set philosophy and rules on how to be successful...In other words, the goal posts seem to move for him and that's where he gets into trouble.

The coaching carousel is disappointing but the lack of fire and discipline from the past couple of years has to also be shared by Jerry in terms of blame...He's involved enough that he could have assisted in cracking the whip or recognizing the failings that were obvious to many of us for some time...That's not just on the coaching staff or the players, Jerry is complicit as well...And I'm sure that players not unlike in Al Davis' case, probably recognized that complicity and refusal to put the hammer down on some personnel...That leads to further discipline issues...If you're no nonsense, players will see that and have no choice but to respect it...If you're wishy washy, you can't be surprised at what that results in either.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Jimmy Johnson was the reason why Dallas won those Superbowls along with the scouts he employed.

Yes Jerry Jones is the new Al Davis minus the Superbowl appearance in 2002 by the Raiders...

 

[rangers71]

Jerry drafted Shante Carver, Kavika Pittman, Shane Hannah, Kendall Watkins, Sherman Williams, Ebeneezer Ekuban, Kareem Larrimore, Dwayne Goodrich, Tony Dixon, Quincy Carter.

As for Walker and Haley, Jones only finished those deals, he didn't initiate them. And Jimmy was the man who turned all those draft picks into prime players that helped get us to the Super Bowls.

I guess the truth is too much for some to handle, so they have to ignore it.

Ok how is this for truth. Jimmy drafted the following players: Barry Minter, James Brown, Kelvin Pritchett, James Richards, Alexander Wright, and Mike Middelton. Boy that is an all star team isn't it? Try to spin it how you want but everything Jimmy touched didn't turn to gold. Jerry deserves just as much credit for the success as Jimmy does. You can't give him no credit when we win and turn around in the same breath and lay all the blame at his feet when we lose. That is ridiculous. Sure he should take a lot of the blame for current affairs but he also should get some credit when we were on top as well.

 

[Bach]

Ok how is this for truth. Jimmy drafted the following players: Barry Minter, James Brown, Kelvin Pritchett, James Richards, Alexander Wright, and Mike Middelton. Boy that is an all star team isn't it? Try to spin it how you want but everything Jimmy touched didn't turn to gold. Jerry deserves just as much credit for the success as Jimmy does. You can't give him no credit when we win and turn around in the same breath and lay all the blame at his feet when we lose. That is ridiculous. Sure he should take a lot of the blame for current affairs but he also should get some credit when we were on top as well.

Never said every player Jimmy drafted was great or everything he touched turned to gold. He missed on a fair number of players. He missed on some trades. He missed on a coaching hire or two.

But the bottomline is he was the one making those decisions in those days and those decisions led us to three Super Bowl championships.

Jerry's decisions helped lead us to three 5-11 seasons.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I'm not dreading next season because I've loweredc my expectations to believing next year will be a garbage year...to give Phillips and Garrett their last lame-duck year as coaches in Dallas...to keep T.O. and other high priced misfits to absorb their salaries in 2009...and to do all this so that all of these pathetic coaches and players can be let go in 2010, with a clener cap and an opportunity to hire a new coaching staff to rebuild the Cowboys from scratch.

Don't be fooled y Jones talk about "having something to prove" in 2009; we don't have the players whop share that sentiment.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Ok how is this for truth. Jimmy drafted the following players: Barry Minter, James Brown, Kelvin Pritchett, James Richards, Alexander Wright, and Mike Middelton. Boy that is an all star team isn't it? Try to spin it how you want but everything Jimmy touched didn't turn to gold. Jerry deserves just as much credit for the success as Jimmy does. You can't give him no credit when we win and turn around in the same breath and lay all the blame at his feet when we lose. That is ridiculous. Sure he should take a lot of the blame for current affairs but he also should get some credit when we were on top as well.

What players in particular was Jerry responsible for bringing in during Jimmy's tenure that Jimmy himself did not initiate?

 

[Bach]

What players in particular was Jerry responsible for bringing in during Jimmy's tenure that Jimmy himself did not initiate?

Good luck with that.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Of course not.

The Raiders have actually won playoff games within the past 12 years. They even played in a Super Bowl.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Of course not.

The Raiders have actually won playoff games within the past 12 years. They even played in a Super Bowl.

Really.

They are giving Jerry way too much credit.

 

[rangers71]

Good luck with that.

Well the answer to that is we don't know because none of us were ever in the draft room. There is no way to answer that. I am not going to argue with either of you because it won't do any good. Your hatred for Jones is so much so that you can't even give the guy any credit. Can you at least give the guy credit for hiring Jimmy? Or was that just luck that he fell into. Also if the guys drafted last year turn out to be as good as they looked this year who gets that credit? Is that still Jimmy or was or Parcells?

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

What players in particular was Jerry responsible for bringing in during Jimmy's tenure that Jimmy himself did not initiate?

Charles Haley is one.

 

[chinch]

Is Jerrry Jones the new Al Davis?

Sadly, Al has a better track record over the years and more recent playoff win & superbowl appearance.

Jerry has done NOTHING but run the franchise down without the FOOTBALL GUY who ran the club he took over (jimmah).

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Well the answer to that is we don't know because none of us were ever in the draft room. There is no way to answer that. I am not going to argue with either of you because it won't do any good. Your hatred for Jones is so much so that you can't even give the guy any credit. Can you at least give the guy credit for hiring Jimmy? Or was that just luck that he fell into. Also if the guys drafted last year turn out to be as good as they looked this year who gets that credit? Is that still Jimmy or was or Parcells?

Plenty of interviews state that Jimmy ran the draft room, instigated the Walker trade, etc. Many instances were outlined in "Boys will be Boys". I don't hate Jones, but I am not going to give him "GM Credit" where he deserves none. Jerry deserves Owner Credit for bringing in the best candidate to get his team to multiple championships. For that, he should be applauded.


Jerry's Big "Fail" was when, as an Owner, he decided he could be a competant GM without Jimmy. Jerry's ego got in the way of a very good thing, which resulted in his learning lessons the hard way. He started to rectify that with the hiring of Parcells.

Last years draft was awesome and Jerry deserves praise for it. Now GM Jones needs to fix the poor culture in the lockerroom that he helped allow to enter or Owner Jones will end up with empty seats in his new stadium.

 

[Bach]

Well the answer to that is we don't know because none of us were ever in the draft room. There is no way to answer that. I am not going to argue with either of you because it won't do any good. Your hatred for Jones is so much so that you can't even give the guy any credit. Can you at least give the guy credit for hiring Jimmy? Or was that just luck that he fell into. Also if the guys drafted last year turn out to be as good as they looked this year who gets that credit? Is that still Jimmy or was or Parcells?

I've always given him credit for hiring Jimmy and letting Jimmy and the staff do their jobs.

As for the '08 draft, neither Jimmy or Parcells were here for that, so I don't know why you'd mention them.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Jerry drafted Shante Carver, Kavika Pittman, Shane Hannah, Kendall Watkins, Sherman Williams, Ebeneezer Ekuban, Kareem Larrimore, Dwayne Goodrich, Tony Dixon, Quincy Carter.

As for Walker and Haley, Jones only finished those deals, he didn't initiate them. And Jimmy was the man who turned all those draft picks into prime players that helped get us to the Super Bowls.

I guess the truth is too much for some to handle, so they have to ignore it.

And many have mentioned that Jimmy didn't WANT Emmitt Smith. He wanted a linebacker in that spot. I don't mean many, as in this one topic on the subject either. Jimmy also made that brilliant move to bring in Steve Walsh.

Now since it was ALL JIMMY when it was good things how is it that those bad picks you have up there aren't on Barry, or Chan, or Dave? Instead those are all Jerry.

The only simple minded person here is you. I have not once said, ever, that Jimmy gets zero credit for what was done in Dallas. My point, which you clearly missed cause you're either blind or your comprehension skills are terrible, is that Jimmy didn't do it on his own, just like Jerry doesn't.

They were great together and NEITHER have been good without the other.

He didn't drive the Dolphins to 5-11 either.

But since Jimmy didn't win big in Miami that means to the simpleminded that he wasn't responsible for the success in Dallas.

By their rationale, I guess since Vince Lombardi was only 7-5-2 with the Commanders that it signals he wasn't instrumental with the Packers success of the 60's.

As I said the only one simpleminded here is you cause you can't comprehend anything. When you learn to do that then I'll respect your opinion. Until then you're just another Monday Morning Moron who doesn't know a third of what you'd like to believe you know.

 

[CoCo]

Some come to this realization at different points in time. It's a shame that it's gone on so long that even many of his staunchest supporters are even seeing the problems now.

One note though, I haven't noticed anyone claim we will never win another playoff game again. Then again, there are millions of Cowboys fans worldwide so it's possible someone somewhere has taken that definitive position, I just haven't seen it. I think we still have enough talent to get back to the playoffs and maybe win a game or even two at some point in the future. I just think winning a Super Bowl or even being serious contenders for it are looking bleak as long as Jerry keeps meddling and running things the way he has been.

Like I mentioned before my only hope is purely blind at this time. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and then, but I'm not expecting it.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144192

This is what you said in post #73.

"Now Jerry is back to controlling the coaching staff, ruining any chance for team chemistry or unity and any chance we have to advance in the postseason."

Is my statement that you referred to above an exaggeration of what you stated here. Maybe it is. But I don't think its too far off.

You can read some other examples at #13, #15, #27 & #46 in that same string.

I'm really not trying to show anyone up. Part of the premise of my post in this thread that "I'm done defending Jones" is based on the fact that some folks go to unreasonable lengths to criticize him. Now the other part, that of late he's definitely fueling the fire, is also part of why I'm done.

But like most topics on this board there are some who tend to push opinions to extreme perspectives - both their own and the supposed positions of those who disagree.

Thats why I'm finally deciding some of these topics are better left undiscussed.

 

[Bach]

As I said the only one simpleminded here is you cause you can't comprehend anything. When you learn to do that then I'll respect your opinion. Until then you're just another Monday Morning Moron who doesn't know a third of what you'd like to believe you know.

As opposed to you who tries to give Jerry credit for other people's success and then deflects any blame for his own failures.

But hey, if believing in your fairy tales makes you happy then don't let me stop you. Just don't get upset if many of the rest of us live in reality.

 

[bbgun]

Well, both are aging terribly.