Is Jerry Jones the new Al Davis?

[TellerMorrow34]

As opposed to you who tries to give Jerry credit for other people's success and then deflects any blame for his own failures.

But hey, if believing in your fairy tales makes you happy then don't let me stop you. Just don't get upset if many of the rest of us live in reality.

Please direct me to the posts where i give him no blame. I'll wait while you attempt to dig that jewel out of your *** like the rest of your thoughts.

I said, in this thread in fact, that neither he, nor Jimmy, have been good without the other. I don't know how to make that more clear for you.

Jimmy didn't do it all on his own. Jerry didn't do it all on his own. Jimmy never would get it all done on his own, and Miami is a great indicator of that fact, and Jerry hasn't gotten it done on his own either. The last 14 years have been a very nice indicator of that.

Maybe that will be clear enough for you, though I doubt it. Reading is clearly not one of your strong suits. Pretty much like football knowledge is also one of your weak points.

 

[ZeroClub]

Jerry and Al (of a few years ago) are similar in that both are more active in the day-to-day operation of their club and more involved in personnel decisions than is the average owner.

 

[Bach]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144192

This is what you said in post #73.

"Now Jerry is back to controlling the coaching staff, ruining any chance for team chemistry or unity and any chance we have to advance in the postseason."

Is my statement that you referred to above an exaggeration of what you stated here. Maybe it is. But I don't think its too far off.

You can read some other examples at #13, #15, #27 & #46 in that same string.

He is ruining our chances to advance in the postseason. That's another way of saying go deep in the playoffs, make a serious run at the Super Bowl. It's not a definitive claim that we will never win another playoff game.

I'm really not trying to show anyone up. Part of the premise of my post in this thread that "I'm done defending Jones" is based on the fact that some folks go to unreasonable lengths to criticize him. Now the other part, that of late he's definitely fueling the fire, is also part of why I'm done.

But like most topics on this board there are some who tend to push opinions to extreme perspectives - both their own and the supposed positions of those who disagree.

Thats why I'm finally deciding some of these topics are better left undiscussed.

At this point it would take someone totally out of touch with reality to continue defending him. At least over the last decade some could use one excuse or another to blame for the teams lack of success all the while acting like Jerry was blameless, even though he wasn't. It's just a shame that here we are a dozen or more years later and he's still doing the same things that helped dismantle the Super Bowl teams. And the only ones going to unreasonable lengths are those who are still trying to defend him. I would say it's good you've finally seen the light, but it's not good because it only means the problems have continued and to such a degree that even his defenders like you can no longer defend.

 

[Bach]

P
Jimmy didn't do it all on his own. Jerry didn't do it all on his own. Jimmy never would get it all done on his own, and Miami is a great indicator of that fact, and Jerry hasn't gotten it done on his own either. The last 14 years have been a very nice indicator of that.

Maybe that will be clear enough for you, though I doubt it. Reading is clearly not one of your strong suits. Pretty much like football knowledge is also one of your weak points.

Jimmy could've won here in Dallas with any owner who opened his wallet.

But you are right, Jerry on his own over the last 14 years hasn't been able to get it done. And he wasn't responsible for the Super Bowl years either, other than hiring his former college roommate to be the HC.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Jimmy could've won here in Dallas with any owner who opened his wallet.

But you are right, Jerry on his own over the last 14 years hasn't been able to get it done. And he wasn't responsible for the Super Bowl years either, other than hiring his former college roommate to be the HC.

Ok. Sure.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Charles Haley is one.

That was one a few things that Jerry was jointly involved with Jimmy on, so he should get some of the credit for that.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

On my Americas Game DVD set there is an extra on there, about the Walker trade, and it's from their interview with Jimmy for his part on the 1993 DVD.

Jimmy told the story of the trade and how he'd gotten a deal, in place, with Cleveland for Walker and he took the deal to Jerry and said this is what I've got why don't you go out and see if you can get anything more.

Jimmy in the interview talked about how Jerry talked the Vikings and got that deal in place that eventually allowed for the Cowboys to start working back toward the top.

It was a pretty cool interview extra on there and the run down on that (There is a shot in the episode of the 1992 season) that shows exactly what Dallas got for Walker and it was just insane.

 

[visionary]

Darn, I was hoping no one would notice until I actually achieved this singular honor. I'm working on it. Almost there.

Regards

JJ

 

[5mics]

I was reading the article over in the news section of the website and after I finished the story I had a question. Is Jerrry Jones the new Al Davis?

You got this owner, who has complete contol of his team. And unfortunately, utilizes his ownership to its fullest, making a mockery of a great franchise. All the while, his twisted mentallity refuses to accept and acknowledge what everyone else, including the fans, sees. Think I'm wrong? Reread just this paragraph and instead of thinking about Jerry, think of ol' Al. Pretty similar right?

As a GM, I have no doubt in my mind that Jerry is on board the Al Express to Raidersville. Jerry's a great owner but a mediocre GM at best.....

 

[lewpac]

The similarity's are obvious..............and few. Two owners who insist on being involved and meddle too much. That's about it.

Consider the differences if you want to make this discussion complete:


1. Jerry's not vindictive and vengeful, Davis is.
2. Jerry doesn't plot and scheme to ruin a player's or coach's entire careers simply because that player or coach "crossed him". Davis does.
3. Jerry doesn't react with spite and bitterness when things don't go "just perfect". Davis does.
4. Jerry isn't paranoid, looking for ghosts and shadows and goblins at every turn. Davis is.
5. Jerry doesn't act like the Duke Brothers (Trading Places) when he lose's out, and starts shouting "We founded this exchange, turn those machines back on, TURN THOSE MACHINES BACK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Davis does.
6. Jerry's a far better business man and politician than Davis could ever be.
7. Jerry cooperates with the league. Davis fights the leagues every move, only because HE CAN and it entertains him and makes him feel powerful. Jerry KNOWS he's powerful already. Davis needs to antagonize and be "sand in the machinery" to fill some weird vacuum of power he's lost.........or maybe never had.
8. Jerry gets new stadiums built and the "cherry" sponsor deals. Davis can't get a stadium built before 1970, and has a hard time getting KFC and Radio Shack on board.
9. Jerry will actually talk to and get to know his players. Davis couldn't be botherd.
10. Jerry's gonna' live another 30 years. Davis is the walking-dead.

But don't be confused by this. I still think that Jerry should hire a GM and take a vacation between April and February of every football year........

 

[rangers71]

Ok. Sure.

Stop trying to make this moron understand. He has his own agenda and will never change. It isn't worth it.

 

[rangers71]

On my Americas Game DVD set there is an extra on there, about the Walker trade, and it's from their interview with Jimmy for his part on the 1993 DVD.

Jimmy told the story of the trade and how he'd gotten a deal, in place, with Cleveland for Walker and he took the deal to Jerry and said this is what I've got why don't you go out and see if you can get anything more.

Jimmy in the interview talked about how Jerry talked the Vikings and got that deal in place that eventually allowed for the Cowboys to start working back toward the top.

It was a pretty cool interview extra on there and the run down on that (There is a shot in the episode of the 1992 season) that shows exactly what Dallas got for Walker and it was just insane.

They will ignore this fact also.

 

[Bach]

Stop trying to make this moron understand. He has his own agenda and will never change. It isn't worth it.

Namecalling is the best you've got? And the only agenda is by those who keep defending that man after all these years.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Quick blurb from an interview with Ron Pearlman, who might have done a little research on the topic since he wrote a book:

If you had to pick the one indispensable JJ (Johnson or Jones), who would it be? And who was in the right in their bitter breakup?

Oh, Jimmy, without question. There are a lot of rich men with deep pockets who can buy football teams. But Johnson was a personnel genius. The Herschel Walker trade that turned around the franchise in ‘89—all Jimmy. The Steve Walsh trade a year later that netted a slew of more picks—Jimmy, too. He wasn’t the greatest Xs and Os coach we’ll ever see, but the man knew talent. Put it this way: Under Jimmy, the Cowboys drafted guys like Erik Williams and Leon Lett and Kenny Gant and Clayton Holmes—small-school guys many other personnel guys hadn’t even heard of. When Jerry fired Jimmy and took over the draft, his first first-round pick was Shante Carver from Arizona State. “If you had drafted Shante Carver in the fourth, fifth, sixth rounds people would have said, ‘Hey, that’s not a terrible pick,’” Nate Newton told me. “But you can’t take a guy like that in the first round. When you draft guys in the first round you’re saying, ‘In a year this guy is going to be something.’ When did anybody say that with Shante?” In fact, from 1994 through 96, I’d argue the Cowboys put together the three worst drafts in league history. That said, Jones has really seemed to pick things up recently. He’s learned.

 

[Bach]

Quick blurb from an interview with Ron Pearlman, who might have done a little research on the topic since he wrote a book:

[qoute] If you had to pick the one indispensable JJ (Johnson or Jones), who would it be? And who was in the right in their bitter breakup?

Oh, Jimmy, without question. There are a lot of rich men with deep pockets who can buy football teams. But Johnson was a personnel genius. The Herschel Walker trade that turned around the franchise in ‘89—all Jimmy. The Steve Walsh trade a year later that netted a slew of more picks—Jimmy, too. He wasn’t the greatest Xs and Os coach we’ll ever see, but the man knew talent. Put it this way: Under Jimmy, the Cowboys drafted guys like Erik Williams and Leon Lett and Kenny Gant and Clayton Holmes—small-school guys many other personnel guys hadn’t even heard of. When Jerry fired Jimmy and took over the draft, his first first-round pick was Shante Carver from Arizona State. “If you had drafted Shante Carver in the fourth, fifth, sixth rounds people would have said, ‘Hey, that’s not a terrible pick,’” Nate Newton told me. “But you can’t take a guy like that in the first round. When you draft guys in the first round you’re saying, ‘In a year this guy is going to be something.’ When did anybody say that with Shante?” In fact, from 1994 through 96, I’d argue the Cowboys put together the three worst drafts in league history. That said, Jones has really seemed to pick things up recently. He’s learned. .

Funny that the revisionists around here will try to make you believe Jimmy couldn't do it without Jerry. But all Jimmy needed was an owner with deep pockets who got out of the way.

 

[bigE79]

Namecalling is the best you've got? And the only agenda is by those who keep defending that man after all these years.

:troll:

 

[rangers71]

Funny that the revisionists around here will try to make you believe Jimmy couldn't do it without Jerry. But all Jimmy needed was an owner with deep pockets who got out of the way.

Once again you have proven you can't read. Was it not pointed out a few posts above that Jerry got more from the Vikings that Jimmy would have from Cleveland? This was pointed out on a DVD. If this one move was the biggest reason the Cowboys made it back then Jerry should get some credit for god sake. Also I never said Jerry was above blame. All I said was he isn't the sole reason we are in the shape we are now just as much as Jimmy was not the sole reason we won. How freakin hard is it to understand?

 

[rangers71]

:troll:

By the way I am no troll. I have probably been a cowboy fan for longer than you have been alive so in no way am I a troll.

 

[bigE79]

By the way I am no troll. I have probably been a cowboy fan for longer than you have been alive so in no way am I a troll.

Who the hell called you a troll? READ THE POST AGAIN:starspin

 

[Bach]

Once again you have proven you can't read. Was it not pointed out a few posts above that Jerry got more from the Vikings that Jimmy would have from Cleveland? This was pointed out on a DVD. If this one move was the biggest reason the Cowboys made it back then Jerry should get some credit for god sake. Also I never said Jerry was above blame. All I said was he isn't the sole reason we are in the shape we are now just as much as Jimmy was not the sole reason we won. How freakin hard is it to understand?

So Jimmy initiated trading Walker. Cleveland and Minny were both interested. Jimmy got a deal with Cleveland. Jimmy then "took the deal to Jerry and said this is what I've got why don't you go out and see if you can get anything more." Jerry then called Mike Lynn and let him know they were about to make a deal with Cleveland and Lynn ended up offering more. Then Jimmy made the selections with the picks we got from the deal.

Point is Jimmy had a deal with Cleveland and went to Jerry to see if he could get more. If Jerry wasn't involved Jimmy could've gone to Mike Lynn himself. But without Jimmy, Jerry never would've had any deal and with his draft history, definitely wouldn't have turned those selections into the players we got that helped lead us to the SB's.

I never said Jimmy was the sole reason we won Super Bowls. But we could've easily done so without Jerry. Jerry wouldn't have won any if he had hired soft puppet HC's back then and micromanaged the team and was in total of control of personnel.

What is so hard about that to understand?