Is Kellen Moore the Real Problem on Offense?

[RonnieT24]

You're right not only did they stop blitzing, they would show 8 men in the box and man coverage presnap and right before the snap they drop the safety back after Dak has changed the play.

Yep.. teams used to do that to Romo all the time too.. Clearly the Ravens weren't kidding when they said they could predict our plays and knew our signals. It didn't stop working against us until Romo truly became a Jedi Master and could mind F with the best of them. Dak needs to do the same..

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Good offenses audible at the line of scrimmage more than half the time. Defensive looks determine what's run ultimately.

We just run what's called from the sideline.

All do. WRs and QBs have to be in same page about route options based an defensive alignment. But Moore had many occasions were it was predictable formations for run and passes. It's all about down and distant management. When teams loaded up to stop the run because they saw Lamb bunched in after motioning from right to left, it was always a Zeke run up the middle. When 4 WRs line up and all run a hook route at the depth then it's bad play and formation design. In the old old days the QB called all the plays. They were the OC on the field. Today audibles are controlled audibles with pre determined options.

When you are often in 2nd and long situations then your offense become predictable and defense becomes easier. Our offense wasn't balanced and we often had 2nd and 3rd and long situations.....for a while Moore's response to opening of run game was WR screens. It worked couple of times and defenses adjusted

Moore will/may some day be really good. He is still very green which is why I think McCarthy should be more in solved and I thought it's screwed up that he was told not to interfere with Moore. That's Jerry for ya

 

[CowboyRoy]

Zeke was actually hitting the edge well before he got hurt. I have even see you admit that.

I must have been drunk because I have not seen Zeke consistently take advantage of the edges on runs in years.

As far as Moore I see where they insinuate that, but did he really say that?

I think with Zeke its definitely a seldom used play as he doesnt do it well. With Pollard it could be much more of a common run.

 

[CowboyRoy]

hes a former running back so hes going to have a perspective that leans heavily in favor of an RB. My perspective which isnt always popular is i think with our line from 14-18 we could have had anywhere from 10-15 backs in the league put up the #s Zeke did. where Zeke does seperate himself is hes the best blocking RB in the league (but Ive seen him miss some as well). I want more from an RB than being overpaid FB.

That said i see 0 wrong with his anlaysis in this thread or your for that matter. we can scramble it around however we wish as they all contributed. Im not sure why its so important to us to rank things on this site but its what we do

Looks like we feel the same about Zeke. As far as blocking, thats not something anyone has ever bragged about until Zeke. Its important, but my RB's need to be play makers in the run game.

 

[TwoDeep3]

The best I have seen Dak play, and it may sound strange is when Kitna was the QB coach. Dak sometimes gets into his own head and plays scared almost, when sometimes just getting the ball out is the right play. Kitna is on record saying that he told Dak "let it rip" when the opportunity is there. I am happy to hear they have been working together again this offseason.

Mahomes had this issue early in the year trying to win the game with one throw. Once Reid and Bieinemy reigned him in and told him to take the underneath stuff the Chiefs looked like the Chiefs again. That is on MM and KM.

Its funny though. If Dak was playing like the way we are suggesting and taking the underneath stuff quickly. He gets called Dak and Dunk by the fan base. lol.

If your comments are truly the case, and I believe they are, that means this team needs a QB coach who mentors Dak.

While I have mixed emotions about Romo and his sometimes gunslinger style, if you could bottle Romo's vision and understanding and make Dak a Romoholic by drinking the stuff, that would be great.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I didn't "mention Dak." I responded to another poster's speculation about the role Dak's injury and whatever else played in the demise of the offense. Just as I am now responding to your brain dead trope about Zeke "not getting any blame whatsoever."

What I can say is Zeke was hurt. That severely impacted his effectiveness as a runner. The knee made it take longer for him to find his groove in games and when he did find it he was one hit, one twist or one wrong landing from it flaring up and turning him into a pegleg. That aint rocket surgery. I don't BLAME him for wanting to play rather I applaud it. If he's not playing well it's up to the coaches (ahem Moore) to either bench him or figure out how to get the most out of him given the limitations introduced by the injury. I also don't BLAME Zeke because the coaches didn't trust Pollard to keep Dak upright and were willing to play a guy operating at 65-70% over him most of the snaps. According to some folks he bullied the coaching staff and the training staff into letting him play. Anybody who has ever been on a football team knows that's bunk. Players cannot put themselves into the lineup nor can they call their own number. Other than the QB calling a sneak of course. So no.. I don't put much "blame" on Zeke for the offensive struggles. It's his job to suit up and do his best which he did .. If his best is not good enough it's the coach's job (ahem Moore) to replace him.

So are you saying that Zeke should have been benched and rested by the coaching staff?

You had another long winded rant about Zeke and once again failed to blame him for anything.

There is no doubt Zeke hogs the carries in Dallas. And while its probably smart for his own career, its a detriment to team success.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Dak admitted on multiple occasions last year that he got caught "getting greedy." He's got to fix that mindset if teams are going to keep throwing that 3 shell zone at him. Softheads are claiming it was lack of recognition of the defense on his part. I say poppycock. He recognized it just fine, he just thought he and his guys could beat it if he just bought enough time which is why he stood there holding the ball too long on so many occasions. As dude said, he's gotta take the throws that keep them on schedule and move the chains and wait for the opportunity to take a shot not try to force it.

Clearly the understanding is there. You just get blinded with your love of your hero Zeke.

 

[Ranching]

We have all witnessed the struggle this team has toward the end of the season in recent years. While there will be people making their usual comments about Dak - and I challenge you to not and actually consider the question. There are contributing factors which cannot be answered by pointing at the QB.

Poor offensive line play
Injury
The wrong personnel being used

**There are those who suggest this team feasts on the under .500 teams solely. Defense has a hand in the final score. So this question(s) does ignore the defense and focus on offense, and I think, specifically Moore.

My opinion is the major factor of the offense stalling as the season progresses is Moore. It appears to me he gets stuck on plays - the WR screen just drives me crazy when you see it four times a half. And perhaps he is so married to his game plan he can't shift gears and make in game adjustments. All the clever things he does at times wander off his playbook page as he gets mired in a rut of a hand full of sets and plays.

Do you think he calls plays to the strength of his skill players?
Why doesn't Lamb fit the slant route to a Tee? And yet when was the last time you saw that with this team?

With two running backs, where is the clever play caller who gets both of them on the field at one time?
Fact is, where is the boy genius who devises a play that forces the defense to call a time out because they don't have the correct personnel?

When teams respond with defensive changes, have you seen Moore do anything to change his offense and take advantage of a defense?

I could be wrong about this, and expect the usual suspects will litter this thread with nonsense instead of taking the premise seriously.

But for those who actually like talking about the team and the particulars, and not just Dak hate and Zeke hate, what say you?

MM needs to be a big presences in the offensive war room....he became a walk around coach...might be Jerry or might be him....either way, he needs to have more input. IMO

 

[CowboyRoy]

You're right not only did they stop blitzing, they would show 8 men in the box and man coverage presnap and right before the snap they drop the safety back after Dak has changed the play.

Yah, that would give any QB a problem. 9 men on the line and then select guys dropping back not knowing which ones.

But a defense can ONLY do this if they know the Oline will rarely hold up to the pressure. If the line could actually block, that defense would get torched by some nice deep ball up the seam.

You could also exploit that defense with a few nice sweeps to the outside with great blocking and a back that could get to the edge. But again, they know Zeke cant do that and the line probably wont be able to block it consistently.

 

[birdwells1]

Yah, that would give any QB a problem. 9 men on the line and then select guys dropping back not knowing which ones.

But a defense can ONLY do this if they know the Oline will rarely hold up to the pressure. If the line could actually block, that defense would get torched by some nice deep ball up the seam.

You could also exploit that defense with a few nice sweeps to the outside with great blocking and a back that could get to the edge. But again, they know Zeke cant do that and the line probably wont be able to block it consistently.

That strategy employed by defenses happen to coincide with injuries to the oline and Zeke. We need a strong run game to make teams pay for light boxes if not we’ll be seeing the same thing this season.

 

[RomoIsGod]

Well guys. Remember Dak got that ankle sprain and he was definitely not himself after that.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Well guys. Remember Dak got that ankle sprain and he was definitely not himself after that.

Im not buying that as an excuse.

 

[CowboyRoy]

All do. WRs and QBs have to be in same page about route options based an defensive alignment. But Moore had many occasions were it was predictable formations for run and passes. It's all about down and distant management. When teams loaded up to stop the run because they saw Lamb bunched in after motioning from right to left, it was always a Zeke run up the middle. When 4 WRs line up and all run a hook route at the depth then it's bad play and formation design. In the old old days the QB called all the plays. They were the OC on the field. Today audibles are controlled audibles with pre determined options.

When you are often in 2nd and long situations then your offense become predictable and defense becomes easier. Our offense wasn't balanced and we often had 2nd and 3rd and long situations.....for a while Moore's response to opening of run game was WR screens. It worked couple of times and defenses adjusted

Moore will/may some day be really good. He is still very green which is why I think McCarthy should be more in solved and I thought it's screwed up that he was told not to interfere with Moore. That's Jerry for ya

Zeke up the middle is pretty much every time.

 

[morat1959]

Scapegoat anyone?????

He won’t be the last.

 

[Mr_437]

Moore, McCarthy or Jerry...take your pick.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Either Moore straight-up didn't have an answer for defenses double-teaming Amari Cooper last season, or his answers were on the bench with hurt RBs and a reshuffled O line.

The man deploys more offensive creativity in a week than Garrett did in a decade, and I give him tons of credit for that. But the cute OL pass patterns and WR throws don't work when the base shotgun 11 offense stalls out, and Moore didn't have a changeup for that.

 

[Bobhaze]

We have all witnessed the struggle this team has toward the end of the season in recent years. While there will be people making their usual comments about Dak - and I challenge you to not and actually consider the question. There are contributing factors which cannot be answered by pointing at the QB.

Poor offensive line play
Injury
The wrong personnel being used

**There are those who suggest this team feasts on the under .500 teams solely. Defense has a hand in the final score. So this question(s) does ignore the defense and focus on offense, and I think, specifically Moore.

My opinion is the major factor of the offense stalling as the season progresses is Moore. It appears to me he gets stuck on plays - the WR screen just drives me crazy when you see it four times a half. And perhaps he is so married to his game plan he can't shift gears and make in game adjustments. All the clever things he does at times wander off his playbook page as he gets mired in a rut of a hand full of sets and plays.

Do you think he calls plays to the strength of his skill players?
Why doesn't Lamb fit the slant route to a Tee? And yet when was the last time you saw that with this team?

With two running backs, where is the clever play caller who gets both of them on the field at one time?
Fact is, where is the boy genius who devises a play that forces the defense to call a time out because they don't have the correct personnel?

When teams respond with defensive changes, have you seen Moore do anything to change his offense and take advantage of a defense?

I could be wrong about this, and expect the usual suspects will litter this thread with nonsense instead of taking the premise seriously.

But for those who actually like talking about the team and the particulars, and not just Dak hate and Zeke hate, what say you?

This is a very astute post.

Quite simply, (as you mentioned TD) Kellen Moore has struggled when DCs have taken away the obvious bread and butter plays of this offense. The quality of NFL offenses are often dictated by the critical combination of creativity and execution. Moore has never struck me as being a guy who really knows how to get the ball in the hands of our best players in ways that defenses may not be as prepared to see.

It has continued to be a complete mystery to me why our most explosive offensive weapon (Tony Pollard) is not used as the Swiss Army knife he could be. And it could be with Zeke on the field too.

And why has Mike McCarthy seemingly had little influence on Moore? BigMac has always been known as a decent offensive mind but it’s as if Big Mac has been asked to stay away from Moore. Doesn’t make sense to me unless it’s being dictated from the top.

 

[Buzzbait]

This is a very astute post.

Quite simply, (as you mentioned TD) Kellen Moore has struggled when DCs have taken away the obvious bread and butter plays of this offense. The quality of NFL offenses are often dictated by the critical combination of creativity and execution. Moore has never struck me as being a guy who really knows how to get the ball in the hands of our best players in ways that defenses may not be as prepared to see.

It has continued to be a complete mystery to me why our most explosive offensive weapon (Tony Pollard) is not used as the Swiss Army knife he could be. And it could be with Zeke on the field too.

And why has Mike McCarthy seemingly had little influence on Moore? BigMac has always been known as a decent offensive mind but it’s as if Big Mac has been asked to stay away from Moore. Doesn’t make sense to me unless it’s being dictated from the top.

A very astute reply to a very astute post.
Totally agree with your entire post Bob. Granted we have more problems than just Kellen Moore, but Moore cannot be overlooked as one of the major problems in my estimation.

 

[75boyz]

Moore, McCarthy or Jerry...take your pick.

Too small of a sample size scapegoat list.
You left out Dak, Zeke, the OLine and Defense.

I think that now covers all the likely suspects, lol.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That strategy employed by defenses happen to coincide with injuries to the oline and Zeke. We need a strong run game to make teams pay for light boxes if not we’ll be seeing the same thing this season.

The Oline was also a problem in the passing game. Had the Oline held up in the passing game, we probably have much better success even without a great run game.

And although I do agree we need an effective run game, I dont agree we need a strong run game. We need a strong Oline.