IS QB a failure if they never win a SB?

[Diehardblues]

I've felt the same forever! he is so overrated because of the team he played for. He's also still a clown now on TV.

Sadly, I see history repeating itself soon with Eli Manning getting in the HOF just because he happened to QB a 2 time winner. Each and every season he played, he was lucky if he was a middle of road QB yet he'll get in soon enough.

With that line of thinking we could argue Aikman wouldn’t be HOF without the team and talent he had.

If you watched Bradshaw play then you saw a QB making big plays on the biggest stages . I can’t stand him either on TV.

And while Eli wasn’t Elite he did consistently put up consistent stats and his longevity places him top 10 in many categories . The fact he performed well on the biggest stages winning a couple championships punctuates his career as potential HOF at some point while not first ballot.

 

[Fastpitch Dad]

I've felt the same forever! he is so overrated because of the team he played for. He's also still a clown now on TV.

Sadly, I see history repeating itself soon with Eli Manning getting in the HOF just because he happened to QB a 2 time winner. Each and every season he played, he was lucky if he was a middle of road QB yet he'll get in soon enough.

Me too my friend. I remember looking up his career stats about 20 years ago and they didn't add up to the HOF in my opinion.

And you're correct about Eli too, another QB who threw 2 passes up for grabs that got caught. And another average QB will enter the hall.

 

[Vandyr]

He's a decent game manager I agree. But none of what you said can be blamed on Dak Prescott. Rather I would blame the front office of the Cowboys.

While you are correct that it's not his fault he got lucky, doesn't change the fact that he's still a bust. He feeds on bad teams and doesn't show up against good ones. He can't read defenses, he has terrible accuracy unless it's a deep ball down the sideline. His passes are constantly high and/or behind receivers. He takes forever to progress through reads and apparently doesn't even have the basic QB skill of throwing to receivers before the break. He has no pocket awareness. He's just not a good QB. He's a backup at best that somehow landed a starter's job and a huge payday.
Bust.

 

[MyFairLady]

If you are drafted first overall and play 10 seasons and sign a massive contract and never make a conference championship game then you are a bust.

 

[Diehardblues]

Me too my friend. I remember looking up his career stats about 20 years ago and they didn't add up to the HOF in my opinion.

And you're correct about Eli too, another QB who threw 2 passes up for grabs that got caught. And another average QB will enter the hall.

One key element some fans forget about eligibility into the HOF is IMPACT.

It’s how Namath got in. Gayle Sayers who only played 5 years. It’s how Jimmy got in with a brief career.

 

[Reid1boys]

Dilfer had a decent defense? Arguably the greatest D in history.

sarcasm is missed on you..... no kidding they had a "Decent," defense. That was my point. When someone wants to point out how an avg qb can win a sb then they want to use Flacco and Dilfer as their examples it is laughable when you consider those 2 defenses were 2 of the greatest to ever play.

 

[Reid1boys]

But there’s been many champions and SB participants who had good enough QB’s( and I won’t include HOFamers) to build around like Billy Kilmer, Phil Simms, Craig Morton, Boomer Easion , Jim Plunkett, Joe Theisman, Ron Jaworski, Daryl Lamonica, Earl Morral .

That’s just off the top of my head. There’s many more. And that doesn’t include all of the HOFamers who didn’t win a championship like Marino, Kelly, Moon , Fouts and Tarkenton.

Diehard... I dont know your actual name, lol... but I know you are an old timer. You need to use examples tat didnt play back in the day when defenses could kill WRs going over the middle, and slam QBs 4 steps after the qb let the ball go. Those days are OVER. You listed off 9 guys that havent played in the NFL in 40 years.

 

[Streifenkarl]

that's why I asked. the individual can succeed while the team fails. so if success is shared and is a team achievement, so is the failure. Parsons may never win a championship (as long as he is with the cowboys), but he is a success at what he does...I think its champion vs. not a champion

But that's why I'd always try to find a team which can win. Parsons is a good example. Once his first real contract is around the corner he should check the league and pick his next team wisely. He is in a position where he can pick his employer, it doesn't have to be necessarily be the Cowboys.

 

[plasticman]

that's another measure of success, I guess in the athletes case success as it pertains to championships...

with that said, financially no one was more successfull than Russell. did zero. ate himself out of the league and made millions just chillin

Good point.

Seriously, it's the goal of every player to be part of a championship, at least it should be.

Hall of Famers admit that they feel unfulfilled without at least one championship. I'm sure the Marinos, Hadls, and Archie Mannings would trade all their personal achievements for a ring.

 

[blueblood70]

Dan Marino or Joe Flacco, who are you taking?

Flacco

 

[Fastpitch Dad]

One key element some fans forget about eligibility into the HOF is IMPACT.

It’s how Namath got in. Gayle Sayers who only played 5 years. It’s how Jimmy got in with a brief career.

Oh, You're certainly not wrong. My opinion is the HOF should be individual talent. but that's not case and I don't lose sleep over it.

I forgot about Namath, I would put him in the same category. although I think he was better than Bradshaw. I was pretty young, but looking at stats when I was years older I didn't think he deserved it. And this was well before the league ruined the game with all the rules favoring offense.

 

[Reid1boys]

oh come on...as everyone said, its a team game and combination of offense/defense wins.

so I guess Jarred Goff playing in the superbowl was due to historically great Defense?
Cam newton?
or is russell wilson then over rated because since the historically great defense and running game he has done squat
Flacco in 2012 superbowl...didn't have a historically great defense. and Kapernick was on the other side.
Eli manning? he has two...historically great defense? I don't see it.
rich gannon?
Kerry collins.

you took a sample of one or two and generalized.

You do Realize Cam Newton is a HORRIBLE example, right? He was the MVP of the freaking league his LONE season that he was ever close to the SB. Russel Wilson stinks and it has never been more evident how great that defense was. As soon as the defense went away, SEattle and now Denver stink with Russel.

Rich Gannon was in the Super Bowl?/ oh, yea, like Newton it was that season he was the damn MVP of the league....lol
There are always players here and there that had a nice little run. Using Players that won the league MVP in their lone SB appearance isnt exactly helping your argument.

 

[Reid1boys]

I'd go as far to say, if Brady had been drafted by and played his entire career with the Browns he wouldn't have got a ring.

That's not a knock on Brady. It takes more than a great QB to win a championship.

yea, it was clearly that great coach he had.

Hey, how is that great coach doing right now???

 

[mardwin]

Ask Dan Marino and Jim Kelly

Those guys been to the super bowl. They had some form of playoff success.

 

[Reid1boys]

Romo was a QB I thought could win the Super Bowl. I think 2007 was his best chance but TO rolled his ankle against Carolina that season and his high ankle sprain obviously limited him. Lot of bad breaks against the Giants. 14 I think they were good enough to win but we have the Dez no catch against Green Bay.

I was at that GreenBay game... for me, it wasnt the Dez catch, it was the Murray fumble that cost us that game. That hole was enormous and he could have scored and he had a 78 year old dlineman get to him and strip the ball. Had Murray scored on that play, we win that game.

 

[Scottishcowboy]

With that line of thinking we could argue Aikman wouldn’t be HOF without the team and talent he had.

If you watched Bradshaw play then you saw a QB making big plays on the biggest stages . I can’t stand him either on TV.

And while Eli wasn’t Elite he did consistently put up consistent stats and his longevity places him top 10 in many categories . The fact he performed well on the biggest stages winning a couple championships punctuates his career as potential HOF at some point while not first ballot.

thing is, Eli did put up some big stats, INTs being one of them.

Aikman did need a good supporting cast but you'd have to say his play was top 3 at his position throughout his career whereas Eli.

I take your points on board, i just get the feeling that HOF entry is different for QBs than any other position. a QB can get hot for a handful of games (Eli Manning).......admittedly on the big stage but it's punched his ticket to the HOF and ignores countless average or worse performances in his career. Let me put this another way hypothetically, a WR winning 2 SBs and playing great in the 2 playoff runs to his 2 SBs but being bang average for the rest of his career wouldn't sniff the HOF, not a chance. Why is QB different?

 

[Vtwin]

yea, it was clearly that great coach he had.

Hey, how is that great coach doing right now???

The sustained success New England had was due to the greatness of Belichick combined with the greatness of Brady. While I don't believe either achieves what they did without the other, that in no way takes away from the individual greatness each possess.

NFL history is full of examples of great coaches who had periods of limited success and great QB's who never won a championship.

You must be a younger fella. How far back do your NFL recollections go?

Oh, and, Belichick is doing OK so far in the post Brady era with a rookie/2nd year QB, a third string backup and nowhere near the roster he has had in the past. He is a great coach. Right up there with the best of the best.

 

[Diehardblues]

thing is, Eli did put up some big stats, INTs being one of them.

Aikman did need a good supporting cast but you'd have to say his play was top 3 at his position throughout his career whereas Eli.

I take your points on board, i just get the feeling that HOF entry is different for QBs than any other position. a QB can get hot for a handful of games (Eli Manning).......admittedly on the big stage but it's punched his ticket to the HOF and ignores countless average or worse performances in his career. Let me put this another way hypothetically, a WR winning 2 SBs and playing great in the 2 playoff runs to his 2 SBs but being bang average for the rest of his career wouldn't sniff the HOF, not a chance. Why is QB different?

Good question but QB appears to be a little different . Probably cause most translate winning to greatness . Remember no other position do we tally wins and losses to their personal record .

I’d also remind everyone that “ Impact” is also a condition for induction into the HOF. And how Joe Namath and Gayle Sayers got in for example . I’d suggest Jimmy Johnson eventually got in for Impact.

 

[ghst187]

Ask Dan Marino and Jim Kelly

Also Steve young never should’ve won one (as a starter)

 

[RonnieT24]

So if a QB plays for a team ten or so seasons, was a high draft pick and never wins a SB, does that mean he was a Bust?

No.. not unless you consider every player who was a high draft pick and never wins a SB a bust. Yours is a horribly flawed premise. Anybody who gets to the NFL and lasts 10 seasons is a success.. championship or no..