Is QB the most important position for every team?

[Blitzen]

I don't think either Burrow or Allen have shown they're in the same league as Mahomes.

I definitely do. Joe is 3-1 against the Chiefs regular season and postseason though his offensive line has been bottom 3 every season (May threaten his career considering the injuries he sustains being a tackling dummy). Allen has scored tons of points in narrow losses to the Chiefs on two separate playoff occasions just to watch his own defense repeatedly crumble. Both getting to the CCG (Burrow winning one of two). Andy Reid/Steve Spagnuolo and their program are just better than either of the other two squads.

 

[Blitzen]

Don’t buy what? I’m just saying that the QB is less important if that team has an elite defense. Of course, OLines, coaching, etc come into play as well.

Oh okay May have misunderstood-agree that dependency varies.

 

[Blitzen]

The way the game is today every teams season will come down to the play of their QB and having to stop the opposing QB. The Chiefs dominance has been because of Mahomes. McCaffrety and Hill wouldn’t have been competing for a championship this past season if their teams weren’t getting solid QB play. McCaffrety was suffering through losing seasons in Carolina after Cam Newton began to decline and missed games due to injury. He’s flourished in SF because he’s on a much better team that’s getting solid QB play.

Yeah-all position players and QB succeed when the offensive line plays really well. I am saying that the QB playing sometimes is not nearly as important to a squad than an elite player on the line of scrimmage (see Trent Williams and SF just this last season)-as far as wins and losses. Purdy could not make up the difference (even against a poor Vikings team)-which to me proves an elite Williams is more important to the SF win/loss column than Purdy (and his “solid” play).

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I feel like they are only 2 no doubt elite QB’s currently (Burrow and Mahomes) and maybe Allen (depending on the day). Then there are lots of young QBs with promise, but nothing that would show consistent excellence yet. The largest group is the pretty good QB-they differ very little among themselves and go as the rest of the squad goes-they look great on a great team and terrible on a terrible team and mediocre on a mediocre team (when you look over the entire season performance). Only a couple truly dreadful QB’s and they are typically backups or out of the league very quickly.

Signature performances are typically wins that occur in the postseason-though there can be a foreshadowing regular season win that is backed up in the playoffs (of course the QB has to perform great in those wins).

I’m starting to feel that if a team does not have an elite QB, the team should give the QB a maximum of six years (utilizing franchise tags), for the QB to take the team to at least a CCG. Otherwise, the team should move on to another QB no matter what the stats say (unless the team ranks bottom 5 in points given up every single season). Line of scrimmage dominance can make QB’s from the largest group above appear competent and oooh ahhhh. For the largest group of QBs, I feel like the offensive and defensive lines are the most important position(s) for this largest group of QBs. Then receivers/tight ends. Than the QB. Then linebackers and secondary. Then running back.

I believe that most professional QB’s that have a terrible season can usually point to a poor offensive line and/or weapons. Lots of JAGs and a few diamonds.

Why do people feel Burrow is "elite"? Or that he's in Mahomes category? I'm not Josh Allen's biggest fan but even he is a better QB than Burrow.

 

[Blitzen]

A average or bad QB makes an average or bad team ........ no other position does that.

I disagree. Trent Dilfer did not make the 2000 Ravens “average.” And based on his career, you would be grasping at straws to call him really good. Same with Brad Johnson.

I think lots of folks get carried away with how much an impact an average QB has on the results. Both Trent and Brad were average starters and won Super Bowls because their own squads were just way better than the other teams.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I feel like they are only 2 no doubt elite QB’s currently (Burrow and Mahomes) and maybe Allen (depending on the day). Then there are lots of young QBs with promise, but nothing that would show consistent excellence yet. The largest group is the pretty good QB-they differ very little among themselves and go as the rest of the squad goes-they look great on a great team and terrible on a terrible team and mediocre on a mediocre team (when you look over the entire season performance). Only a couple truly dreadful QB’s and they are typically backups or out of the league very quickly.

Signature performances are typically wins that occur in the postseason-though there can be a foreshadowing regular season win that is backed up in the playoffs (of course the QB has to perform great in those wins).

I’m starting to feel that if a team does not have an elite QB, the team should give the QB a maximum of six years (utilizing franchise tags), for the QB to take the team to at least a CCG. Otherwise, the team should move on to another QB no matter what the stats say (unless the team ranks bottom 5 in points given up every single season). Line of scrimmage dominance can make QB’s from the largest group above appear competent and oooh ahhhh. For the largest group of QBs, I feel like the offensive and defensive lines are the most important position(s) for this largest group of QBs. Then receivers/tight ends. Than the QB. Then linebackers and secondary. Then running back.

I believe that most professional QB’s that have a terrible season can usually point to a poor offensive line and/or weapons. Lots of JAGs and a few diamonds.

having an elite QB is the fastest way to a superbowl. thus Mahomes and Burrows. but as you said, its 2 out of 32 starters. so having a good QB, surrounded with a good team can get you there (but not necessarily win it agains the Elite, but you have to get to the dance first). Eagles did it with Hurts, SF did it with Purdy. they had strong defenses. strong running games. strong OL.

so you either get lucky with an Elite QB. but Mahomes is once in a generation. Burrows is elite, but not once in a generation. Allen is on the verge but has too many bone headed plays that make you scratch your head, and he hasn't had much playoff success (except the covid year when they won 3).

so you can either go shopping every few years for 15-20 years hoping to find Mahomes. or you build a good team and get there and have a chance (both Eagles and SF had a chance). the problem is our GM is not capable of building a winning team. I strongly believe if Mahomes was a cowboy, we probably make it to NFCCG, but not superbowl or win the superbowl (does anybody think Garrett could have won a superbowl?).

and to your point, I think the QB is a team strategy. do you go shopping to even find a good QB (not easily done as 80% of first roudn picks fail and about 50% of top 10 picks fail) or do you try to continue to build around what you have. tough choice.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I definitely do. Joe is 3-1 against the Chiefs regular season and postseason though his offensive line has been bottom 3 every season (May threaten his career considering the injuries he sustains being a tackling dummy). Allen has scored tons of points in narrow losses to the Chiefs on two separate playoff occasions just to watch his own defense repeatedly crumble. Both getting to the CCG (Burrow winning one of two). Andy Reid/Steve Spagnuolo and their program are just better than either of the other two squads.

Joe does play the Chiefs well. And maybe that's why people consider him elite but that SB push that he gets credit for....he wasn't that great and his playoff stats are subpar.

I like Burrow though. I just don't know what people have seen aside from those Chiefs games.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

The irony of people bringing up Mahomes and Burrow SB runs though is their defenses played great. This isn't even a Dak argument because he's had some decent performances from his defense and has still stunk. But when it comes to building a team there is no QB that doesn't need help. Even Mahomes.

 

[5Stars]

I feel like they are only 2 no doubt elite QB’s currently (Burrow and Mahomes) and maybe Allen (depending on the day). Then there are lots of young QBs with promise, but nothing that would show consistent excellence yet. The largest group is the pretty good QB-they differ very little among themselves and go as the rest of the squad goes-they look great on a great team and terrible on a terrible team and mediocre on a mediocre team (when you look over the entire season performance). Only a couple truly dreadful QB’s and they are typically backups or out of the league very quickly.

Signature performances are typically wins that occur in the postseason-though there can be a foreshadowing regular season win that is backed up in the playoffs (of course the QB has to perform great in those wins).

I’m starting to feel that if a team does not have an elite QB, the team should give the QB a maximum of six years (utilizing franchise tags), for the QB to take the team to at least a CCG. Otherwise, the team should move on to another QB no matter what the stats say (unless the team ranks bottom 5 in points given up every single season). Line of scrimmage dominance can make QB’s from the largest group above appear competent and oooh ahhhh. For the largest group of QBs, I feel like the offensive and defensive lines are the most important position(s) for this largest group of QBs. Then receivers/tight ends. Than the QB. Then linebackers and secondary. Then running back.

I believe that most professional QB’s that have a terrible season can usually point to a poor offensive line and/or weapons. Lots of JAGs and a few diamonds.

Yes, the QB is probably the most important player on the offense, that is why the Cowboys need one.

 

[Blitzen]

Why do people feel Burrow is "elite"? Or that he's in Mahomes category? I'm not Josh Allen's biggest fan but even he is a better QB than Burrow.

Because he transformed an absolute crap show of an offensive line into a postseason winning offense within two seasons. He’s rare-like Mahomes. He can win and produce in big games even though so much of his offensive structure is so terrible. Doing that to KC in KC in his second season coming off that knee injury and with that line means he graduated to me. Who knows what happens now-his team has thrown him to the wolves to many times already.

 

[doomsday9084]

I kind of disagree with this thread.

There are 3 levels of QB's currently in the NFL:
- Mahomes
- Good QB's
- Sucky QB's

The only QB that gives a team a good shot at winning is Mahomes. With the "good" QB's, you have 10 to 15 of them who are going to be just fine with good coaching and teammates around them. Winning with them is a function of their support.

The sucky QB's are a boat anchor. Its almost impossible to win with them.

I don't think there is that much of a differentiation amongst the "good" QB's. People really overstate it. So much of the results are a function of coaching and teammates.

Side note: I consider Dak to be one of the "good" QB's. I question if him at $60m AAV is going to prevent the team from having enough talent to beat the other good QB's at lower cap hits.

 

[rags747]

With a few exceptions. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson come to mind.

Dilfer had a Bazooka for an arm, Johnson had a Pop Gun! But u r correct, both are wearing SB rings. Surprisingly Eli got two rings, totally mediocre during his career but two bigtime SB runs.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Because he transformed an absolute crap show of an offensive line into a postseason winning offense within two seasons. He’s rare-like Mahomes. He can win and produce in big games even though so much of his offensive structure is so terrible. Doing that to KC in KC in his second season coming off that knee injury and with that line means he graduated to me. Who knows what happens now-his team has thrown him to the wolves to many times already.

So because his offensive line stinks? Russell Wilson has had bad offenses line earlier in his career and no one confused him with MAhomes or the best in the league. You can make the playoffs with a below average line. It's been shown. You can't win a ring without one though. So yeah if you can win a ring with a below average line you're own a different category.

It's also worth noting that in those playoff runs it wasn't just Burrow. His defenses played lights out.

Joe Burrow has a passer rating of 93.8 with 1,826 yards, 9 touchdowns and 4 interceptions in 7 games in the playoffs in his career.

Those are not great stats and certainly not elite.

I like Burrow. I think after Mahomes I'd probably take him because I Do think he has a certain coolness about him in the clutch that I think you need. He doesn't panic. Even dating back to LSU. But based on what he's shown? Not sure if he's 2.

 

[CowboyChris]

A good QB, on a good team, on a good contract, with a good game plan, can accomplish almost anything.

Brock Purdy comes to mind, heck even Jordan Love

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I kind of disagree with this thread.

There are 3 levels of QB's currently in the NFL:
- Mahomes
- Good QB's
- Sucky QB's

The only QB that gives a team a good shot at winning is Mahomes. With the "good" QB's, you have 10 to 15 of them who are going to be just fine with good coaching and teammates around them. Winning with them is a function of their support.

The sucky QB's are a boat anchor. Its almost impossible to win with them.

I don't think there is that much of a differentiation amongst the "good" QB's. People really overstate it. So much of the results are a function of coaching and teammates.

Side note: I consider Dak to be one of the "good" QB's. I question if him at $60m AAV is going to prevent the team from having enough talent to beat the other good QB's at lower cap hits.

I mean how they are currently building teams around Dak I'd probably say no. 49ers just have an edge not only actually having a GM but having the luxury of having Purdy's contract.

 

[KJJ]

I don’t buy it. Eli Manning was a borderline journeyman QB that played with some really good defenses and good running games.

Sorry, but that’s a ridiculous statement. A journeyman QB is one that plays for several teams over their career and Eli only played for the Giants. He had a solid playoff record and had it not been for his plays to Tyree and Manningham the Giants wouldn’t have won those two Super Bowls. Some forget about his great throw to Manningham in the SB. Amazing catch but an incredible throw under those circumstances. A lot of bias fans here who hate Eli.

 

[Blitzen]

Joe does play the Chiefs well. And maybe that's why people consider him elite but that SB push that he gets credit for....he wasn't that great and his playoff stats are subpar.

I like Burrow though. I just don't know what people have seen aside from those Chiefs games.

It’s other games too for me. 2022 season versus Buffalo in the playoffs and his overall regular season. This last season in SF-he played extremely well and was the biggest reason for that win. He had some big time drives in the playoffs even if the squad did not put up huge numbers in some of the games (several huge and difficult throws to keep drives alive and put some points on the board).

 

[75boyz]

Yes.
31 other NFL General Managers are being paid to find "that elite one."

The positional pay scale of all 32 teams is set up such that the QB position is the highest paid based off his individual performance impact on team success as he touches every offensive snap of the ball.

The group here attempting to minimize the impact of an elite QB by downplaying him to be just another part of the TEAM are absolutely wrong.

There have been enough posts here showing the results of Super Bowl winning teams and teams that have made it to the Supet Bowl with elite QBs as to prove how they are the standard for success.

The outliers are the Brad Johnsons, Trent Dilfers and Nick Foles type who needed an all star supporting cast to win their ring but their performance alone was anything but elite.

The whole build around Dak narrative is tired and played out.
The Cowboys havent drafted a highly pedigreed QB since Quincy Carter in the 2nd round some thing like 25 years or so ago.

Doing the whole UDFA and 4th round project/developmental duo at the QB position for the last 20 years has proven fruitless.

It's time to acquire an alfa dawg at the QB position who on his own performance can cover for many team warts.
That and a competent non yes man HC and that combo could overcome even Jerry.

Would he hire and draft that type duo?
That's a different discussion altogether.

jmo

 

[CowboyChris]

having an elite QB can get you to a SB, so can a shut down defense with a solid running game, but having an average QB making elite money will get you no where.

 

[Blitzen]

Sorry, but that’s a ridiculous statement. A journeyman QB is one that plays for several teams over their career and Eli only played for the Giants. He had a solid playoff record and had it not been for his plays to Tyree and Manningham the Giants wouldn’t have won those two Super Bowls. Some forget about his great throw to Manningham in the SB. Amazing catch but an incredible throw under those circumstances. A lot of bias fans here who hate Eli.

He was okay. Those defenses were the primary reasons for SB runs. He did enough on a couple drives and did not hurt his squad with critical turnovers.