Is QB the most important position for every team?

[Chuck 54]

In today’s NFL, the starting QB is absolutely the most important player on the team….period. He may not be the best player; he may not even be among the 10 best players on a team, but the QB will have a bigger impact on winning and losing a game than any other player on the team. That’s a fact. Micah Parsons is probably the best, most talented player on the team, but his impact on winning or losing games is actually quite minimal in relation to his talent.

 

[KJJ]

He was okay. Those defenses were the primary reasons for SB runs. He did enough on a couple drives and did not hurt his squad with critical turnovers.

His was a lot better than okay and will end up in the Hall of Fame. His defenses were excellent but those two SB wins in 07 and 2011 came down to him having to make a play in do or die situations and he came through. This is why he was the MVP in both games.

 

[5Stars]

The center has a bigger impact.......

Is that because he calls the protections at the line scrimmage?

 

[McKDaddy]

It’s the most important unless that team has the ‘85 Bears defense

It's still the most important position .... but you've got a shot to make it work with a defense like that.

 

[Blitzen]

His was a lot better than okay and will end up in the Hall of Fame. His defenses were excellent but those two SB wins in 07 and 2011 came down to him having to make a play in do or die situations and he came through. This is why he was the MVP in both games.

To me, he was just okay. The star of the show for both SB teams to me was their defense. They don’t give the MVP to an entire defensive unit though, so someone had to get it. He was just a decent QB with a spectacular defense and very good running game from my perspective. He gets in the hall because of the trophies the defense gave him and the fact that his last name is Manning.

 

[KJJ]

To me, he was just okay. The star of the show for both SB teams to me was their defense. They don’t give the MVP to an entire defensive unit though, so someone had to get it. He was just a decent QB with a spectacular defense and very good running game from my perspective. He gets in the hall because of the trophies the defense gave him and the fact that his last name is Manning.

I’m not going to waste time arguing opinions. His defenses didn’t give the Giants the lead in those SBs. Eli brought them from behind. His greatest attribute was that he came up big when it really mattered.

 

[Diehardblues]

I feel like they are only 2 no doubt elite QB’s currently (Burrow and Mahomes) and maybe Allen (depending on the day). Then there are lots of young QBs with promise, but nothing that would show consistent excellence yet. The largest group is the pretty good QB-they differ very little among themselves and go as the rest of the squad goes-they look great on a great team and terrible on a terrible team and mediocre on a mediocre team (when you look over the entire season performance). Only a couple truly dreadful QB’s and they are typically backups or out of the league very quickly.

Signature performances are typically wins that occur in the postseason-though there can be a foreshadowing regular season win that is backed up in the playoffs (of course the QB has to perform great in those wins).

I’m starting to feel that if a team does not have an elite QB, the team should give the QB a maximum of six years (utilizing franchise tags), for the QB to take the team to at least a CCG. Otherwise, the team should move on to another QB no matter what the stats say (unless the team ranks bottom 5 in points given up every single season). Line of scrimmage dominance can make QB’s from the largest group above appear competent and oooh ahhhh. For the largest group of QBs, I feel like the offensive and defensive lines are the most important position(s) for this largest group of QBs. Then receivers/tight ends. Than the QB. Then linebackers and secondary. Then running back.

I believe that most professional QB’s that have a terrible season can usually point to a poor offensive line and/or weapons. Lots of JAGs and a few diamonds.

Unfortunately many fans only attach or define Elite QB’s with winning Super Bowls.

There’s basically two types of teams in the NFL. One with a Franchise QB ( not necessarily Elite) and the others looking for one.

Then once you find one you try and build around best you can. The more Elite the easier to build around.

 

[Diehardblues]

If the QB is elite, then I agree. Burrow and Allen have shown they are in Mahomes’ league. Then there is a major step down.

The term “ Elite” is more of a talking point. No one really defines it by more than winning championships which is a team accomplishment. But that’s too complex for most fans to decipher.

There is usually more of an abundance of Franchise QB’s ( not necessarily Elite) which I’d define by any QB who resigns as a starter with second contract.

And the more talented that Franchise QB is the easier it is to build around.

 

[Blitzen]

Unfortunately many fans only attach or define Elite QB’s with winning Super Bowls.

There’s basically two types of teams in the NFL. One with a Franchise QB ( not necessarily Elite) and the others looking for one.

Then once you find one you try and build around best you can. The more Elite the easier to build around.

I disagree that there are only two types. There are teams that are actively attempting to win in the postseason (meaning they expect to make it to the postseason and will try everything they can to help win once there). There are teams actively only attempting to win in the regular season (they do not try everything they can to help the team win in the postseason-making the postseason is the end goal-anything more is gravy). There are teams just trying to win a little more than the previous season-a team that was terrible the season before. There are teams that are in the rebuild/reset season (though they never can publicly admit it).

Franchise QB is a marketing term (and it’s repetitively driven down everyone’s gullets). It means nothing in terms of actual team success.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’m not going to waste time arguing opinions. His defenses didn’t give the Giants the lead in those SBs. Eli brought them from behind. His greatest attribute was that he came up big when it really mattered.

Right . He played some of his best ball on the bigger stages. And because of his career longevity with no injuries he finished as Top 10 passing yards and top 10 in TD’s which coupled with 2 Rings could be enough for induction at some point. Probably not 1st ballot.

 

[75boyz]

I definitely do. Joe is 3-1 against the Chiefs regular season and postseason though his offensive line has been bottom 3 every season (May threaten his career considering the injuries he sustains being a tackling dummy). Allen has scored tons of points in narrow losses to the Chiefs on two separate playoff occasions just to watch his own defense repeatedly crumble. Both getting to the CCG (Burrow winning one of two). Andy Reid/Steve Spagnuolo and their program are just better than either of the other two squads.

Totally agree.

 

[Diehardblues]

I disagree that there are only two types. There are teams that are actively attempting to win in the postseason (meaning they expect to make it to the postseason and will try everything they can to help win once there). There are teams actively only attempting to win in the regular season (they do not try everything they can to help the team win in the postseason-making the postseason is the end goal-anything more is gravy). There are teams just trying to win a little more than the previous season-a team that was terrible the season before. There are teams that are in the rebuild/reset season (though they never can publicly admit it).

Franchise QB is a marketing term (and it’s repetitively driven down everyone’s gullets). It means nothing in terms of actual team success.

Franchise QB is the term most commonly used by NFL teams.

There are two types of teams. One with a Franchise QB and one looking for a Franchise QB. The better the QB is the easier to build around.

I do agree that Franchise QB doesn’t necessarily translate to team success . But once a team has one under contract , generally they are looking to bring in more support than continuing to look for another QB.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

It’s other games too for me. 2022 season versus Buffalo in the playoffs and his overall regular season. This last season in SF-he played extremely well and was the biggest reason for that win. He had some big time drives in the playoffs even if the squad did not put up huge numbers in some of the games (several huge and difficult throws to keep drives alive and put some points on the board).

I agree. He's mad timely throws. But he doesn't win those games if the defenses doesn't get stops.

And I hate doing this to guys because people do it to Hurts and Purdy and I don't agree with it but to be in Mahomes category we have to see what he does when his weapons are not there. We saw Mahomes without Tyreke Hill. Burrow has had stacked teams since LSU. If Chase or Higgins are not there is he the same? Think the jury is out there.

 

[Blitzen]

The term “ Elite” is more of a talking point. No one really defines it by more than winning championships which is a team accomplishment. But that’s too complex for most fans to decipher.

There is usually more of an abundance of Franchise QB’s ( not necessarily Elite) which I’d define by any QB who resigns as a starter with second contract.

And the more talented that Franchise QB is the easier it is to build around.

My definition of elite is definitely subjective and requires someone to look beyond statistics and analyze game film and watch what a QB does within the framework of the play design and the players around him.

They are someone that can make all the throws asked of them given minimal protection and time. They consistently make good decisions and refuse to give defenders good chances for turnovers even when they make risky throws (which they must try at times). They make plays when the team must have them, but also just consistently put solid to outstanding drives together. They buy time to make downfield plays happen consistently. They minimize poor plays and know when to give up on a play. They do all of these things-but ESPECIALLY in the postseason.

 

[Blitzen]

I agree. He's mad timely throws. But he doesn't win those games if the defenses doesn't get stops.

And I hate doing this to guys because people do it to Hurts and Purdy and I don't agree with it but to be in Mahomes category we have to see what he does when his weapons are not there. We saw Mahomes without Tyreke Hill. Burrow has had stacked teams since LSU. If Chase or Higgins are not there is he the same? Think the jury is out there.

Dunno if Joe could do all this without some of those playmakers, but Pat has never done it without a good/superb oline. They addressed the oline in a big way after that loss to TB. Pat has better moves and mobility. Joe has had some phenomenal drives even though the oline did not exist. He may not be at Pat’s level, but in my opinion he’s very close (Allen too sometimes).

Only problem is that Joe’s career may be stunted at this point. No guarantee he will not be hampered by his now growing injury history. Cincinnati has not done well addressing the oline.

 

[Diehardblues]

My definition of elite is definitely subjective and requires someone to look beyond statistics and analyze game film and watch what a QB does within the framework of the play design and the players around him.

They are someone that can make all the throws asked of them given minimal protection and time. They consistently make good decisions and refuse to give defenders good chances for turnovers even when they make risky throws (which they must try at times). They make plays when the team must have them, but also just consistently put solid to outstanding drives together. They buy time to make downfield plays happen consistently. They minimize poor plays and know when to give up on a play. They do all of these things-but ESPECIALLY in the postseason.

We should evaluate QB’s like we do all positions which don’t have to be on championship teams to be considered Elite or HOF caliber which I’d argue is a more universal description we should all be able to agree on.

If we can’t agree that at least the 300+ players in NFL history in the Hall of Fame are Elite how do we otherwise establish a common definition.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Dunno if Joe could do all this without some of those playmakers, but Pat has never done it without a good/superb oline. They addressed the oline in a big way after that loss to TB. Pat has better moves and mobility. Joe has had some phenomenal drives even though the oline did not exist. He may not be at Pat’s level, but in my opinion he’s very close (Allen too sometimes).

Only problem is that Joe’s career may be stunted at this point. No guarantee he will not be hampered by his now growing injury history. Cincinnati has not done well addressing the oline.

Yeah I'm not of the belief Pat does it by himself but he does do the most with the less. Also don't think Burrow has the offensive mind Andy Reid is.

 

[Ranching]

Is that because he calls the protections at the line scrimmage?

No, because without him, the QB doesn't get the ball. It's like strumming a guitar without strings! Lol

 

[CTcowboy203]

I don’t buy it. Eli Manning was a borderline journeyman QB that played with some really good defenses and good running games. Elite defenses really do help winning in January/February. Elite QB play trumps everything else.

Really good QB play with elite defense can yield a CCG and sometimes a SB. There are the extremely rare SB wins with Stafford and Flacco and the just okay QB with all time great defense (2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs).

I don’t mean just SB runs-overall regular season play. QB is less of a factor for many of these clubs as far as regular season success. The modern rules favoring offense allow a bunch of guys to look much better than they actually are. By the same token, plenty of awful squads make their QB look more terrible than they actually are.

Not an Eli apologist but how was he a borderline journeyman when he played for one team his entire career? He also regardless of his defense came up huge in big spots time and again. Rest of your points I mostly agree with

 

[Blitzen]

Yeah I'm not of the belief Pat does it by himself but he does do the most with the less. Also don't think Burrow has the offensive mind Andy Reid is.

You mean Brian Callahan vs Andy Reid? I agree-one is maybe the greatest west coast offensive minds in the game ever and one is just a guy that is now having to hack it in Tennessee.