is there such thing as choke/clutch QBs?

[JD_KaPow]

overtime you get a collection of evidence. Your right...not one single play can define if they are clutch or not. The example I gave about cool Joe was more peering into mind of guy who didn't allow the stress of a situation to affect 'who he was' and thus had dramatic success overall in in post-season. McNabb (and many others) is example of someone who internalized the stress in a different way that ultimately moved them away from the player we would see in regular season. I think in future there will be alot more analysis done in this area and used by NFL. Just this year researchers are now saying that stress is an allergy to some people.

Imagining stuff about how people are responding internally to stress isn't the same as "evidence". But you are right that over time you get a collection of evidence.
McNabb had a winning record in the postseason with numbers that were similar to his regular season numbers.
Montana had some awful postseason games and his overall postseason numbers were similar to his regular season numbers.
The collection of evidence for both these guys tells us that each performed pretty much exactly as you'd expect him to.

 

[Arkyvarminter]

Not taking Romo's side but the whole time he's been here he's had a bad Defense. He's constantly trying to bail them out or come back from being down near the end of the game. When you are under the gun almost every game and HAVE to score on every possession you are going to make mistakes AND your going to play well in some. The negative always makes the news so your a choke artist. They don't remember the games you won without a defense. They remember your faults..Always.

 

[theSHOW]

That play told us everything we needed to know about Romo.

We just didn't know it.

We know it now.

Romo's comeback against the Skins was against the worst team in the league.

Other than us.

You can't have it both ways. You brought up the Commanders game and found a way to bash Romo. Back in Seatle 2006....I found it interesting that the kicker could have put a 1/4 of his body weight on the rushing cornerback and guess what...Romo would have waltzed into the endzone for 7 instead of 3 icing the game for the Cowboys.

 

[Redball Express]

When people say you are a choker they are saying that when the pressure of the situation increases that person's performance decreases. If a person is truly a chocker then he won't be able to get to a super bowl let alone win one, so in the case of Brady, Brees, and Rodgers they've won on the biggest stage and performed well. In that case its hard for the choker label to stick when they have already won the ultimate prize in their profession, no matter what they do afterwards.

Well.

My feeling about they not having merit..

these guy have merit.

They are worth $100s of millions of $$$ !!

Which means the Cowboys..

For lack of a better word,

Are not as important as their Stad

So by your definition, any QB who hasn't won a Super Bowl is a loser. And since nobody wants a loser leading their team, they should cut them before they ever get a chance to win.

Who said this?

I believe the topic of the thread was chokers and losers.

And yes..

my list of choker didn't win a SB.

They repeatedly failed at it.

I think the fans of this team has accepted Jerrahs definition of excellence.

They accept not winning for 17 years as normal.

It never used to be.

 

[Redball Express]

You can't have it both ways. You brought up the Commanders game and found a way to bash Romo. Back in Seatle 2006....I found it interesting that the kicker could have put a 1/4 of his body weight on the rushing cornerback and guess what...Romo would have waltzed into the endzone for 7 instead of 3 icing the game for the Cowboys.

Hey..

If its and buts were candy and nuts..whatever

 

[Redball Express]

Peyton Manning has a SB ring and some people still think he is a choker.

Really?

I think the Colts were the chokers.

They let him go and look at what is happening now?

Peyton is shaking down the entire NFL.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Outside of football
Everyone handles pressure differently….

That is mirrored in football. Some are good in the moment, still executing as if it was an everyday play, Clutch..…… Some get nervous, and think the worst…. you may fail, but everyone remembers when you succeed on the biggest stages.

 

[NateSuri]

I think every player can be clutch or choke in a moment, and those moments stack up, leading to a choker status. It started in Seattle for Romo...

But I think these status stick on QBs more than other NFL players because when a CB or a RB chokes, they get cut. Newman comes to mind. Most starting QBs have too big of contracts to simply cut, and forget about, so the get reputations instead.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Really?

I think the Colts were the chokers.

They let him go and look at what is happening now?

Peyton is shaking down the entire NFL.

But Peyton has done this before. He does it almost every year. Yeah, this is his best season, but not by much. And he had some Colts teams that were better than this year's Broncos team. Remember the team that was 14-0 and rested their starters the last two games? And I don't think they won the Super Bowl that year (correct me if I'm wrong). Peyton's playoff numbers have been much worse than his regular season numbers throughout his career. And some people argue that the Colts only won that one Super Bowl because they had a great defense and played against an awful Grossman-led Bears team. I'm not saying Peyton is a choker. In my OP, I said maybe it's because playoff defenses are just much better. But maybe it is because Peyton gets nervous in the playoffs. I really don't know. That's why I started this thread. To have a conversation about the idea of clutch/choke, not to bash Romo like some people have said.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Yes there are chokers and there are clutch players.

Clutch: Brady, Luck, Montana

Chokers: McNabb, Romo, Schaub

The stress gets to some players more than others. It's a fact. Romo is perceived as a choker by a lot of ppl. Idk if its real or not; but the image of him dropping the snap against Seattle in the playoffs is burned into my brain. That was a choke job.

 

[theSHOW]

Hey..

If its and buts were candy and nuts..whatever

Way to bring the wood on that one. D'oh

 

[theSHOW]

Yes there are chokers and there are clutch players.

Clutch: Brady, Luck, Montana

Chokers: McNabb, Romo, Schaub

The stress gets to some players more than others. It's a fact. Romo is perceived as a choker by a lot of ppl. Idk if its real or not; but the image of him dropping the snap against Seattle in the playoffs is burned into my brain. That was a choke job.

way to go...clap clap clap from Jason to you. And you don't "even know if the Romo choking is real or not." But list him anyhow on the Chokers list. Some of our fine posters need be listed on the Agenda List

 

[JD_KaPow]

Yes there are chokers and there are clutch players.

Clutch: Brady, Luck, Montana

Chokers: McNabb, Romo, Schaub

The stress gets to some players more than others. It's a fact. Romo is perceived as a choker by a lot of ppl. Idk if its real or not; but the image of him dropping the snap against Seattle in the playoffs is burned into my brain. That was a choke job.

Is this just a stream of consciousness? "Chokers: Romo" is followed by "Idk if its real or not". If it's a "fact", it should be pretty clear. But it's not a fact. It's a hypothesis, in support of which you've offered no evidence.

 

[joseephuss]

Really?

I think the Colts were the chokers.

They let him go and look at what is happening now?

Peyton is shaking down the entire NFL.

Really. I don't agree with it, but I have heard it said about Peyton. Especially right after the Broncos lost to the Ravens in last seasons playoff game.

 

[mrmojo]

I believe there are certain QBs who can elevate the entire team to another level through leadership and example. Average players start to make plays...great players start to make plays....defense starts to make plays. When a QB has this effect being clutch becomes a lot easier because of the confidence the team has in their leader. My major example of this type of QB and the greatest clutch player I have ever seen is Roger Staubach.

 

[Wood]

for those needing recent example of how clutch QB can take over and will his team to post-season victory...I give you Andrew Luck. Bravo recovery and the stones to pull off second greatest post season comeback victory.

 

[MikeT22]

Yes there are chokers and there are clutch players.

Clutch: Brady, Luck, Montana

Chokers: McNabb, Romo, Schaub

The stress gets to some players more than others. It's a fact. Romo is perceived as a choker by a lot of ppl. Idk if its real or not; but the image of him dropping the snap against Seattle in the playoffs is burned into my brain. That was a choke job.

It's no coincidence some QB's seem to find ways to win, or at least when they lose they aren't the reason for it. But others seem to make the costly mistakes and often at the worst time and often in big games. Or they just come out in the big pressure games and $#&^ the bed with subpar play regardless of if they have turnovers or not.

I think you could put Aikman in the clutch category too. He had one of the best TD/turnover ratio in the playoffs if IIRC. Romo definitely falls into the latter category. Sure he can put up big numbers at times. And it is good to be able to beat the teams you are supposed to. I think we are 19-2 over the last 3 years vs. teams .500 or worse. But against winning teams, and in win or go home games, Romo has routinely been less than stellar and has often had the costly mistake(s) that kill us.

 

[birdwells1]

Peyton Manning has a SB ring and some people still think he is a choker.

I would be one of those people, Peyton has played some of his worst football In some of the most pressure packed moments.

2002 playoffs against the Jet 41-0 loss, threw for 137 yards.
2003 playoffs against the Patriots lost with a passer rating of 35 and 4 ints.
2004 playoffs against the Patriots lost with a passer rating of 69 offense held to 3 points.
2005 lost at home to the Steelers.
2006 won Super Bowl against one of the worst team to make the big game.
2007 lost at home to SD, Peyton played well but couldnt lead his team on a game winning drive.
2008 lost at home to SD in ot.
2009 threw pick six in super bowl to seal defeat.
2010 lost at home to Jets
2011 did not play
2012 terrible pass thrown in ot that leads to defeat

To top it off Tennessee won a national championship one year after he left. If it werent for the 2006 season you wouldnt hear much about Romo at all. There is a reason the say he is the best "regular season" qb of all time, and really that should be an insult.

 

[links18]

IS there such a thing as a "clutch" kicker? Most Cowboys fans think Bailey is one.......

 

[Redball Express]

I believe there are certain QBs who can elevate the entire team to another level through leadership and example. Average players start to make plays...great players start to make plays....defense starts to make plays. When a QB has this effect being clutch becomes a lot easier because of the confidence the team has in their leader. My major example of this type of QB and the greatest clutch player I have ever seen is Roger Staubach.

Roger was the best.

Romo is stuck right where Don Meredith, Danny White and Craig Morton left off.

They had great teams around them..

much better than Romo has had.

And those QBs never had those Championship games go their ways.

Romo is not going to get better.

And the times its going to take to recover is going to outlive Romo's remaining effective years.

And the window on the team being capable is gone.

And the owner is unwilling and unmotivated to change.

It is troubling times in the kingdom for sure.