It was a mistake letting Garrett Go

[Diehardblues]

Just imagine what a real HC could've done.

Unfortunately a real HC wasn’t an option for A very long time. In the last 25 years we’ve actually only had one and he was meddled with detracting more success.

We appear to have hired another Legit HC but time will tell how much undermining and interference he will have to contend with as well.

Our greatest obstacle has been our leadership in football operations and dysfunctional organization in front office. Everything else is a result of those actions. I wouldn’t assume all of that has changed because one better decision.

 

[Buzzbait]

I would agree that if I’m going to credit Garrett for his influence in building a better roster he needs to be held at least partially accountable for the mistakes in the draft as well which prevented us from more success.

My bigger point is I feel Garrett influenced an improved culture with personnel Mgmt and drafts which enabled us to field a more consistent competitive team. I certainly understand the negative that can be spun but that wasn’t my focus.

I saw Garrett despite his coaching flaws as more of a positive influence on Jerry’s ways and I supported him along with if we were going to be stuck with Puppets he was one I could get behind with he and his families Cowboys connection which provided a connection to our histories past. I never understood with that history why more fans didn’t rally behind him.

All Garrett did was enable Jerry's nonsense. Whatever Jerry wanted, Garrett was the perfect little puppet. Jerry paid him enough that Garrett always kissed Jerry's boots.

 

[Diehardblues]

All Garrett did was enable Jerry's nonsense. Whatever Jerry wanted, Garrett was the perfect little puppet. Jerry paid him enough that Garrett always kissed Jerry's boots.

Yes, and why I called Garrett the “ Perfect Puppet”.

But why I supported Garrett was I felt if we were going to be stuck with puppets as we had basically been for the last 25 years except for a brief time with Bill , he was influencing better decisions from Jerry off the field in a collaborative effort with Will and Stephen.

 

[Buzzbait]

Yes, and why I called Garrett the “ Perfect Puppet”.

But why I supported Garrett was I felt if we were going to be stuck with puppets as we had basically been for the last 25 years except for a brief time with Bill , he was influencing better decisions from Jerry off the field in a collaborative effort with Will and Stephen.

I don't buy the idea that he "influenced better decisions from Jerry". Other than Will and Stephen's influence, Jerry made his own decisions. Off field Garrett just bowed down and said "Yes sir, No sir". On field, Garrett was his own screw up.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't buy the idea that he "influenced better decisions from Jerry". Other than Will and Stephen's influence, Jerry made his own decisions. Off field Garrett just bowed down and said "Yes sir, No sir". On field, Garrett was his own screw up.

All reports coming out from beat writers and the local media I followed for years is Jason and Will worked closely together. Will was basically looking for talent to fit Jason’s vision. And they both collaborated with Stephen influencing personnel decisions.

The Dallas paper I cant provide links too often wrote info and quotes how influential Jason was in our front office decisions and a big part of why Jerry relied much more on him than previous puppets.

And remember what Parcells said” you have to convince Jerry to go against his instincts”. Obviously they weren’t always successful convincing Jerry as I agree he made his own decisions.

On the field it’s difficult to know how much authority Jason had as so much responsibility over the years had been stripped like play calling and not sure how much voice he had on defensive schemes. He obviously has some flaws on Game Day and why his responsibilities might have been limited.

Garrett was basically in place so if we ever had the success, Jerry could take more credit.

 

[Buzzbait]

All reports coming out from beat writers and the local media I followed for years is Jason and Will worked closely together. Will was basically looking for talent to fit Jason’s vision. And they both collaborated with Stephen influencing personnel decisions.
The Dallas paper I cant provide links too often wrote info and quotes how influential Jason was in our front office decisions and a big part of why Jerry relied much more on him than previous puppets.

On the field it’s difficult to know how much authority Jason had as so much responsibility over the years had been stripped like play calling and not sure how much voice he had on defensive schemes. He obviously has some flaws on Game Day and why his responsibilities might have been limited.

Garrett was basically in place so if we ever had the success, Jerry could take more credit.

"Will was basically looking for talent to fit Jason’s vision."
Jason's "vision" (process) is one problem eliminated.

"how influential Jason was in our front office decisions"
That's another problem eliminated.

"On the field it’s difficult to know how much authority Jason had as so much responsibility over the years had been stripped like play calling "
Even Jerry knew how ineffective Garrett was. That's why he was stripped of play calling, and eventually stripped of his HC job.
If he was so good and so effective he'd still be here.

 

[Diehardblues]

"Will was basically looking for talent to fit Jason’s vision."
Jason's "vision" (process) is one problem eliminated.

"how influential Jason was in our front office decisions"
That's another problem eliminated.

"On the field it’s difficult to know how much authority Jason had as so much responsibility over the years had been stripped like play calling "
Even Jerry knew how ineffective Garrett was. That's why he was stripped of play calling, and eventually stripped of his HC job.
If he was so good and so effective he'd still be here.

It was no doubt time for Garrett to go. But I’d argue he was our most successful Puppet. And I believe our organization is in a better place after his tenure.

 

[Buzzbait]

It was no doubt time for Garrett to go. But I’d argue he was our most successful Puppet.
And I believe our organization is in a better place after his tenure.

In 2011, 2012, and 2013 he went 8-8.
Three years in a row.
In 2015 he went 4-12.
In 2019 he went 8-8 again.

That's why he's history.
In your statement above that the "org. is in a better place after his tenure", the key word there is "AFTER".
So I actually have to agree in part......the organization IS in a better place "AFTER" his tenure, because we have a new HC!

 

[Diehardblues]

In 2011, 2012, and 2013 he went 8-8.
Three years in a row.
In 2015 he went 4-12.
In 2019 he went 8-8 again.

That's why he's history.
In your statement above that the "org. is in a better place after his tenure", the key word there is "AFTER".
So I actually have to agree in part......the organization IS in a better place "AFTER" his tenure, because we have a new HC!

Of course you omitted winning 3 division titles in 5 years and 2 playoff games which is more than the previous 4 HC’s combined this era.

One of the best measurements of Mgmt or coaching in this case is ; are we in a better place than when you took over. I think it would be easy to present an argument we are in a much better place than 2010 or 2011.

We have a nucleus of talent that’s in position to contend now. No doubt Garrett’s on field coaching wasn’t a strength but his organizational skills and talent evaluation was one of our best this era influencing our ownership. And that’s placed us in a better position to win despite whatever Game Day coaching flaws he had.

 

[Buzzbait]

Of course you omitted winning 3 division titles in 5 years and 2 playoff games which is more than the previous 4 HC’s combined this era.

One of the best measurements of Mgmt or coaching in this case is ; are we in a better place than when you took over. I think it would be easy to present an argument we are in a much better place than 2010 or 2011.

We have a nucleus of talent that’s in position to contend now. No doubt Garrett’s on field coaching wasn’t a strength but his organizational skills and talent evaluation was one of our best this era influencing our ownership. And that’s placed us in a better position to win despite whatever Game Day coaching flaws he had.

"Of course you omitted winning 3 division titles in 5 years"
And you omitted the fact that those 3 division titles came out of the worst and weakest division in the NFL.


"We have a nucleus of talent that’s in position to contend now."
Thanks to Mike McCarthy. We didn't have squat for a DL until McCarthy got us 3 good badly needed DT's and a choice of good DE's . NOW we have a nucleus of talent in position to contend.

 

[Diehardblues]

"Of course you omitted winning 3 division titles in 5 years"
And you omitted the fact that those 3 division titles came out of the worst and weakest division in the NFL.


"We have a nucleus of talent that’s in position to contend now."
Thanks to Mike McCarthy. We didn't have squat for a DL until McCarthy got us 3 good badly needed DT's and a choice of good DE's . NOW we have a nucleus of talent in position to contend.

Right. Do you want to go back and evaluate the last 24 years to see how strong the division was for the 4 previous coaches when they didn’t win as many divisions?

And you aren’t giving any credit to the nucleus of talent that’s been assembled ? McCarthy gets credit for this entire roster. Lol

And who are these 5 new DL your suggesting are making an impact?

You don’t feel this franchise is in better shape than 2010 or 2011?

 

[Buzzbait]

Right. Do you want to go back and evaluate the last 24 years to see how strong the division was for the 4 previous coaches when they didn’t win as many divisions?

And you aren’t giving any credit to the nucleus of talent that’s been assembled ? McCarthy gets credit for this entire roster. Lol

And who are these 5 new DL your suggesting are making an impact?

You don’t feel this franchise is in better shape than 2010 or 2011?

I was more specific than that, you're trying to generalize it just for the sake of argument. I specifically pointed out the DL that Garrett and his buddy Marinelli have stupidly ignored for years. They have passed up good opportunities for quality defensive linemen repeatedly, drafting duds instead of quality.

With McCarthy we just completed one of the most impressive drafts and FA acquisitions we've seen in years. THAT'S what is going to make this team a contender. I suspect within 2 years this team is going to reach a level of success that Garrett would never have achieved.

 

[Diehardblues]

I was more specific than that, you're trying to generalize it just for the sake of argument. I specifically pointed out the DL that Garrett and his buddy Marinelli have stupidly ignored for years. They have passed up good opportunities for quality defensive linemen repeatedly, drafting duds instead of quality.

With McCarthy we just completed one of the most impressive drafts and FA acquisitions we've seen in years. THAT'S what is going to make this team a contender. I suspect within 2 years this team is going to reach a level of success that Garrett would never have achieved.

Actually they didn’t ignore the DL they made some poor choices in the draft.

The results haven’t come in yet on the current decisions. It’s mere speculation at this time.

But the point remains that in the Garrett era we saw better personnel decisions and drafts overall and how we were able to field a team that was able to win 3 divisions in 5 years and a couple playoff games on the cusp of breaking thru to our first championship game in a generation.

If McCarthy leads us to that next level then the accolades will follow. Until then , we shall wait and see.

 

[Buzzbait]

Right. Do you want to go back and evaluate the last 24 years to see how strong the division was for the 4 previous coaches when they didn’t win as many divisions?

And you aren’t giving any credit to the nucleus of talent that’s been assembled ? McCarthy gets credit for this entire roster. Lol

And who are these 5 new DL your suggesting are making an impact?

You don’t feel this franchise is in better shape than 2010 or 2011?

You know who they are. DT's Dontari Poe, Gerald McCoy, Neville Gallimore. DE Bradlee Anae, Aldon Smith and possibly Randy Gregory.
No those DE's are not guarantees yet but between the 3 of them we've got a lot better odds than we had with Taco.

 

[Buzzbait]

Actually they didn’t ignore the DL they made some poor choices in the draft.

The results haven’t come in yet on the current decisions. It’s mere speculation at this time.

But the point remains that in the Garrett era we saw better personnel decisions and drafts overall and how we were able to field a team that was able to win 3 divisions in 5 years and a couple playoff games on the cusp of breaking thru to our first championship game in a generation.

If McCarthy leads us to that next level then the accolades will follow. Until then , we shall wait and see.

For all practical purposes they DID ignore it. They downgraded the importance of the DL. There were quality DLmen available but they took players that Garrett thought was the "Right Kind of Guy" instead of good football players.
Be it "ignore" or "poor choices", regardless of the choice of words, it stunk.
Garrett was never going to take this team all the way. In 10 years he never even sniffed the NFC championship game let alone the SB, and he wasn't showing any signs of that changing. He just couldn't rise above mediocrity.

 

[Diehardblues]

You know who they are. DT's Dontari Poe, Gerald McCoy, Neville Gallimore. DE Bradlee Anae, Aldon Smith and possibly Randy Gregory.
No those DE's are not guarantees yet but between the 3 of them we've got a lot better odds than we had with Taco.

Again, it’s yet to be seen. I don’t recall Taco contributing last year .And McCarthy doesn’t get credit for Gregory.

 

[Diehardblues]

For all practical purposes they DID ignore it. They downgraded the importance of the DL. There were quality DLmen available but they took players that Garrett thought was the "Right Kind of Guy" instead of good football players.
Be it "ignore" or "poor choices", regardless of the choice of words, it stunk.
Garrett was never going to take this team all the way. In 10 years he never even sniffed the NFC championship game let alone the SB, and he wasn't showing any signs of that changing. He just couldn't rise above mediocrity.

We can’t say they ignored it using 1st and 2nd round picks. They merely chose poorly.

And you can’t say coming within a couple plays or seconds of a championship appearance isn’t sniffing it.

You continue to present a perception which stems from your mind not actual facts. Which is fine. You’re entitled to your own take but that doesn’t mean it’s an accurate description of how it actually occurred.

The Cowboys have embodied mediocrity this entire generation well before Garrett arrived and most likely will continue. There’s been one constant through several different head coaches. And he’s still here.

 

[Buzzbait]

Again, it’s yet to be seen. I don’t recall Taco contributing last year. And McCarthy doesn’t get credit for Gregory.

What does Taco not contributing last year have to do with it? You come up with the strangest arguments. We had no talent at that DE position because they drafted a no talent DE Taco instead of a good football player, whether he played last year or not.
And no, MM doesn't get credit for Gregory, but you requested 5 examples and I gave you 6. I simply threw Gregory into the mix because he may or may not be a factor. I gave you more than you requested.

Be that as it may, I Know you from the old DC forum and I know that in your eyes Garrett always has and always will walk on water and that you hate Jerry Jones with a passion. You have always defended Garrett and you always will, so arguing with you about him is a total waste of time.

 

[Diehardblues]

What does Taco not contributing last year have to do with it? You come up with the strangest arguments. We had no talent at that DE position because they drafted a no talent DE Taco instead of a good football player, whether he played last year or not.
And no, MM doesn't get credit for Gregory, but you requested 5 examples and I gave you 6. I simply threw Gregory into the mix because he may or may not be a factor. I gave you more than you requested.

Be that as it may, I Know you from the old DC forum and I know that in your eyes Garrett always has and always will walk on water and that you hate Jerry Jones with a passion. You have always defended Garrett and you always will, so arguing with you about him is a total waste of time.

It’s a waste of time if you think you’re going to convince me to believe your spin. Lol

Garrett doesn’t walk on water. It was time for him to go. I’ve said time and time again he had coaching flaws. But I supported him against those who blamed everything on him as he was a product of our dysfunctional organization.

And I can present a good argument he was as good of puppet or more than any other of our coaches this mediocre era. And why Jerry held on to him so long. That’s not Jasons fault. He was attempting to make the most of a bad situation.

And Jerry ultimately is responsible. I do hold him accountable. Who doesn’t hate the way Jerry runs Cowboys Football? He always will be my main target. The last 25 years is on him.

I liked him cause I believed if we were going to be stuck with the kind of coaches we’d had I could support someone like Jason as I felt he was helping influence Jerry in building a better team regardless of his coaching abilities. And the fact he was an ExCowboy player from our 90’s dynasty with Jimmy and his father with Landry provided me something to get behind in the darkest era of our franchise with a connection from the greatest eras.

 

[Buzzbait]

We can’t say they ignored it using 1st and 2nd round picks. They merely chose poorly.

Not just "poorly", stupidly.
In your own post #185 you stated : "Will was basically looking for talent to fit Jason’s vision."
So you can't blame Will. Like you said, he was "looking for talent to fit Jason's vision". Jason's vision for what he called "The right kind of guy".
Those poor or stupid picks were Garrett's RKG.
You can defend Garrett's mediocrity all you want, but even Jerry couldn't stand it any longer and had to dump the guy.
Like I said in an earlier post, if Garrett was such hot stuff, he'd still be here.