Jason Garrett as future HC does he compare to Payton ?

[jobberone]

He could have done a better job in the redzone. But I wonder sometimes if the skill sets at both WR and OL are what he really prefers. I don't think it is.

That may be the case. But he's running the offense and I'd bet he has pretty much a free hand there. Maybe he is influencing the draft some. Maybe Brewster is his kind of OL.

And no one seems to be paying attention to the facts about our scoring last year. Premier teams like the Saints score 80 points or more per 1000 yards of offense. We scored 56 points/1000 yds. That's a lot more than 'we could have done better in the redzone'.

 

[Hostile]

Did you watch the one vs. Minnesota recently?

I think it is pretty safe to say that the overwhelming majority of us did watch the last game. It is also quite likely that most of us realize that Johnny Come Lately philosophies about football are nothing more than premature evaluation or analysis paralysis.

One game, especially the last game, does not define any coach or player. It is this same mentality that would lead some people to have believed that Clint Longley was a better QB and option than Roger Staubach after his miracle win against the Commanders in the 1974 Thanksgiving game.

Larry Cole said it best when describing that game, "It was the triumph of an uncluttered mind." Pretty much the same rationale that would leave any sentient, intelligent person to believe that Jason Garrett is wholly defined by the last game the Cowboys played and not his entire book of work.

How you choose to process this information is up to you.

 

[craig71]

I think it is pretty safe to say that the overwhelming majority of us did watch the last game. It is also quite likely that most of us realize that Johnny Come Lately philosophies about football are nothing more than premature evaluation or analysis paralysis.

One game, especially the last game, does not define any coach or player. It is this same mentality that would lead some people to have believed that Clint Longley was a better QB and option than Roger Staubach after his miracle win against the Commanders in the 1974 Thanksgiving game.

Larry Cole said it best when describing that game, "It was the triumph of an uncluttered mind." Pretty much the same rationale that would leave any sentient, intelligent person to believe that Jason Garrett is wholly defined by the last game the Cowboys played and not his entire book of work.

How you choose to process this information is up to you.

That may prove to be a difficult task for some Hostile.

Craig

 

[Hostile]

That may prove to be a difficult task for some Hostile.

Craig

I never liked the song Chopsticks, but some people think it proves they can play a piano.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I never liked the song Chopsticks, but some people think it proves they can play a piano.

I suppose if you can play that song, then you *can* play the piano. Though playing that song definitely doesn't make you a musician.

I've played guitar for over 10 years (though I did take a hiatus), but I am in no way shape or form a musician.

 

[craig71]

I never liked the song Chopsticks, but some people think it proves they can play a piano.

I hear ya',kinda like wine-locked karaoke singers thinking they're superstars.

BTW,did you happen to see the Barber pitch play that some are griping about from the endzone angle?If you haven't you need to take a look at it.

Craig

 

[Hostile]

I suppose if you can play that song, then you *can* play the piano. Though playing that song definitely doesn't make you a musician.

I've played guitar for over 10 years (though I did take a hiatus), but I am in no way shape or form a musician.

I can turn on a stereo and make you think the band is performing live in your house. I got skills.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

What's wrong with criticism if it isn't rooted in fallacies? Nothing in my book. Sturm still respects and praises Garrett. That is not the same as people on here who call him "the worst OC in the NFL." I don't mind criticism and think he deserves some. It's the hyperbole that I don't get.

His ceiling for potential is higher than a lot of people want to admit. The problem is they expect him to be at the ceiling automatically. No Coach in NFL History has ever done that, but he should?

Ridiculous.

I don't think many people say he's the worst OC in the NFL... Maybe a tiny percentage who pop off other absurd things when they're emotional.

I do think most of those of us who think he's okay as an OC just don't see what automatically makes him a great HC candidate. When, for instance, a Dan Reeves says that he wonders why we're running so many zone blocking plays when we've been far more successful with the power plays we've run, a lot of us wonder what the decision-making process is with that.

And I still wonder what you meant by the comment that he wants to be even more aggressive...

 

[burmafrd]

Well Sean Payton has Drew Brees as QB now. what did he have while he was in dallas and ny?

 

[NextGenBoys]

The two are remarkably similar. Sharp sharp offensive minds who still had a lot to learn coming up.

Payton only got to the Super Bowl because he improved the defense. Getting Gregg Williams was something he recognized he needed to do and he did it, even giving up part of his own salary to get it done. He faked it one year with Gary Gibbs but the bottom fell out.

Garrett will need that same kind of support if/when he gets his first head coaching job. He won't be able to simply outscore everyone. If he takes over in Dallas, we had better have a strong DC to support him. We had a shot at that but missed out on Capers because nobody wanted Stewart to feel bad Hardly worth it, because he's now the DC at the University of Houston.

The main difference however with Payton is that he cut his teeth learning from Coach Parcells and has taken a similar approach managing his teams. Garrett does not have that benefit and is a step behind in his development because of that. Payton was more ready. I honestly cannot say that Garrett is ready to handle an entire team. Challenging personalities (like Owens) have been an issue. He still is not able to use all the tools at his disposal and his performance down the stretch was ragged as his offense failed to score in the red zone. He still has work to do as a coordinator.

Even worse. Capers was responsible for the defensive turnaround in Green Bay. He's the Packers DC

 

[Alexander]

That may be the case. But he's running the offense and I'd bet he has pretty much a free hand there. Maybe he is influencing the draft some. Maybe Brewster is his kind of OL.

And no one seems to be paying attention to the facts about our scoring last year. Premier teams like the Saints score 80 points or more per 1000 yards of offense. We scored 56 points/1000 yds. That's a lot more than 'we could have done better in the redzone'.

Payton is a better playcaller and quite simply is more mature now than Garrett is. I don't believe that is anything to be ashamed of nor is it a fair comparison.

Garrett is fairly close in terms of production from an OC standpoint as Payton was. The biggest difference is that Payton was not completely in charge of his offenses in Dallas or in New York for that matter. He was micromanaged by Fassel and most certainly had some things dictated to him when with the Cowboys by Coach Parcells.

On the other hand, I think Garrett has free reign offensively. I doubt Phillips has any method of control over him, so there are few excuses he could have for not having a higher scoring offense other than simple personnel challenges, which do very much exist. I think your average coordinator would be unable to achieve what he has done with very few explosive players on offense. Hand him a dynamic receiver to pair with what he has, I think you see a dramatic change. Again, he is not perfect and needs to continue to mature.

 

[Alexander]

Well Sean Payton has Drew Brees as QB now. what did he have while he was in dallas and ny?

He would have had Romo, who I think would be just as good as Brees if he were in New Orleans right now.

 

[Alexander]

BTW,did you happen to see the Barber pitch play that some are griping about from the endzone angle?If you haven't you need to take a look at it.

Craig

Personally, I would like to see Garrett hit the booth next year. It might make a distinct difference in some of these calls. As for that Barber pitch, it is fairly obvious it was an audible.

 

[Hostile]

I don't think many people say he's the worst OC in the NFL... Maybe a tiny percentage who pop off other absurd things when they're emotional.

I do think most of those of us who think he's okay as an OC just don't see what automatically makes him a great HC candidate. When, for instance, a Dan Reeves says that he wonders why we're running so many zone blocking plays when we've been far more successful with the power plays we've run, a lot of us wonder what the decision-making process is with that.

And I still wonder what you meant by the comment that he wants to be even more aggressive...

I have been told he wants to go for kill shots on both sides of the ball. He prefers applying pressure to the other team to force them into mistakes.

 

[NextGenBoys]

I have been told he wants to go for kill shots on both sides of the ball. He prefers applying pressure to the other team to force them into mistakes.

No doubt we need to force other teams into mistakes on defense. Saints made the NFC title game by forcing turnovers.

It's over-simplifying things for sure, but I feel that all we need to do next year is force turnovers on defense, and we'll be fine. We were a much more umbrella defense this year than in year's past. We didnt give up any big plays, but we didnt force any turnovers.

If we can force some turnovers, we can look past a few turnovers on offense and stop asking Tony to be perfect with the football.

 

[Jimz31]

Personally, I would like to see Garrett hit the booth next year. It might make a distinct difference in some of these calls. As for that Barber pitch, it is fairly obvious it was an audible.

Didn't Romo state in the PC later that that was actually the play-call?

Too many times a QB runs around acting like he is audibling when he isn't. P. Manning doesn't audible as many times as most people think....but some people think he is audibling on every play.....

 

[craig71]

Personally, I would like to see Garrett hit the booth next year. It might make a distinct difference in some of these calls. As for that Barber pitch, it is fairly obvious it was an audible.

It was most likely an audible.That play was doomed from the get go though.Edwards came free on that play,Columbo didn't even put a hand on him.Even with Felix in the backfield that play would of had a tough time succeeding.As for putting Garrett in the booth.I don't know if it would make all that much difference.There is so much information that is available on the sidelines with todays technology that I don't see all that much of a benefit with having Garrett upstairs.

Craig

 

[jobberone]

Payton is a better playcaller and quite simply is more mature now than Garrett is. I don't believe that is anything to be ashamed of nor is it a fair comparison.

Garrett is fairly close in terms of production from an OC standpoint as Payton was. The biggest difference is that Payton was not completely in charge of his offenses in Dallas or in New York for that matter. He was micromanaged by Fassel and most certainly had some things dictated to him when with the Cowboys by Coach Parcells.

On the other hand, I think Garrett has free reign offensively. I doubt Phillips has any method of control over him, so there are few excuses he could have for not having a higher scoring offense other than simple personnel challenges, which do very much exist. I think your average coordinator would be unable to achieve what he has done with very few explosive players on offense. Hand him a dynamic receiver to pair with what he has, I think you see a dramatic change. Again, he is not perfect and needs to continue to mature.

I agree Garrett has been hampered by the lack of a second WR on the team. There's no doubt about that. I think the OL has not been as big a problem. In fact only the Denver, GB, and MN game was a problem for the OL.

Whatever the problems are its not getting enough attention IMO. We left 140 points on the field this year. That's closer to 31 points per game than 22 and that's a huge difference. Some of that has to be on play calling and game planning.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Please wake up people! I don't think Jason Garrett is HC material or ever until he radically changes his offensive philosophy. I know a lot of you are giving him credit for making us a top notch offense but WE were already a top notch offense even before Garrett was here.

When Peyton was our OC you can tell that he was limited to his playcalling because of Parcells. But he always had that killer instinct of throwing the ball down the field even though we have a slight lead.

With Garrett you won't see an aggressive, go for the throat type of offense. You will see more plays like the wildcat or plays that run predicted runs up the middle for no gain on 3rd and 4th downs.

Garretts only experience in coaching has been what he learned when he was here during the 90s....and that was get the ball in the redzone. Then let the running game pound it in. If that doesn't work, settle for field goals. That is why our points per.game has decreased this year. Its also the reason why Romo has 10 less TDs this year than the previous year. Its because Garrett is not a risk taker and would rather go for a safer approach rather than call a play which makes sense.

Trust me. You won't see any difference with this offense if Garrett is at the helm. I think our offense will be worst. Garrett is holding this offense back from scoring a ton of points. Just look at all the negative plays, the sacks, the failed 4th down plays, and even the lame wildcat plays he called in the redzone. Peyton would have never called those plays. He would try and get it into the end zone. Garrett on the otherhand, will call the same play over and over again, even though it won't work. This is my beef with him. He is overrated because Romo is our QB and nothing else.

 

[Alexander]

Its because Garrett is not a risk taker and would rather go for a safer approach rather than call a play which makes sense.

What safe approach? If you believe he is "conservative", I completely disagree.

In fact, I think he tries to get too creative in certain key situations and depends too much on flawless execution of these creative calls from a team that quite honestly is not that cerebral. That is what gets him in trouble.