Jason Garrett quickly becoming one of the longest term head coaches

[KJJ]

During those 8-8 seasons, Garrett was abandoning the run in the first quarter nearly every game. We were down double digits in the first quarter nearly every week. Those defenses had to stay on the field way too long because there were too many 3 and outs. Garrett would have Romo back in shotgun winging the ball all over the place. He had like some crazy stat of like throwing 60 or 70% of the time on first down. Then he would run predictably on 2nd down and we would be 3rd and 8 all the time. It was a horror show watching Garrett call a game.

When you're down by double digits you have to abandon the run plus Murray couldn't stay healthy during those 8-8 seasons. I'm not trying to defend Garrett as an OC he had his issues with play calling but most of the problems with the Cowboys has been with their defense. The defense has been a problem for years it was a problem when Parcells was here. The OL was going through a transition when Garrett took over that along with Murray missing games forced Romo to have to wing it. Even with the efficient offense the Cowboys had last season the defense ended up being our downfall during the playoffs despite being on the field an average of 12 fewer plays than in 2013.

 

[Idgit]

I'm interested in the context enough to know what context it was made in. It was made in response to a question about Garrett's future, not a question about the SB or if Garrett would ever win one. I don't think Jerry could have been any clearer in his statement yet people want to interpret it differently. here it is:

“We’ve put a lot of effort in training as a franchise into Jason Garrett, and I want to take advantage of that,” Jones said. “If we don’t have him, we don’t get payback for all the miscues and losses and criticism of sideline management. We don’t get a chance to benefit from the one way you learn, and that is the mistakes you make. So I want to have him around to learn. I’ve seen another smart coach, a very smart coach, learn from a lot of mistakes early and go on and win Super Bowls. Most of them do.”

What's even more telling than Jason's contrat is the list of tenured coaches provided by the Op. With the exception of Garrett and Lewis, they've all won SB's. In a normal franchise, success is the key to longevity for a coach, not the owner's comfort zone. Garrett's going to get his shot now that he's been extended.

The Superbowl context is in the very quote you provided. He directly compares Garrett's learning curve to Jimmy's Superbowl success.

And I'm sorry, but that list of coaches is not more telling than a 5 year $30M extension. It's not particularly telling at all. Upward trajectory gets coaches extended in the NFL. The Superbowl is the pinnacle of that upward trajectory. Just because you couldn't recognize the success Garrett had from the get-go as actual progress doesn't mean it was the franchise that was backwards.

 

[Dodger12]

The Superbowl context is in the very quote you provided. He directly compares Garrett's learning curve to Jimmy's Superbowl success.

And I'm sorry, but that list of coaches is not more telling than a 5 year $30M extension. It's not particularly telling at all. Upward trajectory gets coaches extended in the NFL. The Superbowl is the pinnacle of that upward trajectory. Just because you couldn't recognize the success Garrett had from the get-go as actual progress doesn't mean it was the franchise that was backwards.

What can I tell you. If you want to excuse a quote from the owner/GM that described Garrett perfectly, then you can do that. His quote was in response to a question about Garrett's future and that's the context he answered it in. If you feel he was comparing Garrett's 3 years of futility, coaching blunders and game day failures that he himself alluded to (and may of us here popinted out), to Jimmy, then you're in a fantasy land.

And no, I couldn't recognize the sucess Garrett had here because I like to measure success by wins and losses. When Garrett becomes as consistent with 12 and 4 and playoff wins as he was with 8 and 8 and end of the year collapses, I'll give him his due. Until then, I'll leave it to you to marvel at those .500 seasons with a franchise QB and claim he was successful.

 

[Idgit]

What can I tell you. If you want to excuse a quote from the owner/GM that described Garrett perfectly, then you can do that. His quote was in response to a question about Garrett's future and that's the context he answered it in. If you feel he was comparing Garrett's 3 years of futility, coaching blunders and game day failures that he himself alluded to (and may of us here popinted out), to Jimmy, then you're in a fantasy land.

And no, I couldn't recognize the sucess Garrett had here because I like to measure success by wins and losses. When Garrett becomes as consistent with 12 and 4 and playoff wins as he was with 8 and 8 and end of the year collapses, I'll give him his due. Until then, I'll leave it to you to marvel at those .500 seasons with a franchise QB and claim he was successful.

There's really not much you *can* say when the quote is explicit and the context clear. And those 500 seasons weren't a marvel, or an embarrassment. You just have to be a little bit more realistic with your expectations, I guess.

If you're serious about judging HCs on wins, you might want to take a look at how Garrett compares to the other Cowboy greats. Personally, that's not the metric I use because I believe there's a lot that goes into a winning team's record and not all of it goes on the coach. It's enough for me to see the team getting better and younger.

 

[Dodger12]

There's really not much you *can* say when the quote is explicit and the context clear. And those 500 seasons weren't a marvel, or an embarrassment. You just have to be a little bit more realistic with your expectations, I guess.

If you're serious about judging HCs on wins, you might want to take a look at how Garrett compares to the other Cowboy greats. Personally, that's not the metric I use because I believe there's a lot that goes into a winning team's record and not all of it goes on the coach. It's enough for me to see the team getting better and younger.

This compulsion you and others have to compare Garrett to other Cowboys greats is really kind of ludicrous but I do give you credit for doing it with a straight face. It's an argument that's been rehashed over and over again. When people think that Garrett compares to Landry or Johnson then there's not much to discuss and nothing that is said will change your mind; it's just to ridiculous and you're just too far gone.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Garrett learning on the job hasn't prevented Romo from being one of the most productive QB's in the league. Romo hasn't had a passer rating lower than 91.4 since Garrett has been here. In 07 Romo had a career high 36 TD's with Garrett as the OC and the Cowboys ranked 3rd in total offense. Had the Cowboys had a quality HC that season instead of a cream puff who coddled his players allowing them to become complacent after the big win over Green Bay the team would have made it to the SB that year. It wasn't Garrett who gave his blessings to Romo and Witten to go to Cabo right before the Cowboys playoff game with the Giants.

LOL......back at it again I see. Wade certainly had his short comings, but at least he is a football man. Romo had great years because he is Romo. Although I do recall many a Romo detractors claiming that Romo wasnt a good QB. Which have all been proven a joke by now. And no doubt we saw what Romo is capable of with a run game. The best season of his career. Another myth debunked.

 

[CowboyRoy]

When you're down by double digits you have to abandon the run plus Murray couldn't stay healthy during those 8-8 seasons. I'm not trying to defend Garrett as an OC he had his issues with play calling but most of the problems with the Cowboys has been with their defense. The defense has been a problem for years it was a problem when Parcells was here. The OL was going through a transition when Garrett took over that along with Murray missing games forced Romo to have to wing it. Even with the efficient offense the Cowboys had last season the defense ended up being our downfall during the playoffs despite being on the field an average of 12 fewer plays than in 2013.

I would never abandon the run in the first quarter. Thats how you get your QB killed.

Now I will agree the Oline was transitioning. But that was only part of the problem. Garretts lack of commitment, lack of guts to stick with it, and pass happy nature where big issues. Even when we ran it well in games he would go pass happy. We all saw Garrett lobby for Felix Jones as our first round pick that year. He was a finesse, pass happy, offensive guy. Troubling knowing that he came from the 90's Cowboys teams.

 

[Idgit]

This compulsion you and others have to compare Garrett to other Cowboys greats is really kind of ludicrous but I do give you credit for doing it with a straight face. It's an argument that's been rehashed over and over again. When people think that Garrett compares to Landry or Johnson then there's not much to discuss and nothing that is said will change your mind; it's just to ridiculous and you're just too far gone.

Well, that's a weird attempt at a spin. You're the one who mentioned winning games as your measurement for the quality of a HC and who didn't want to accept last year's 12-4 as your answer. I assumed you then wanted the wins inside of some relative context. Instead, you just wanted to flail a bit more. Have at it. You were wrong about Garrett though, and the roster, the cap, the winning percentage, and the big extension prove it. It doesn't matter that you're not ready to accept it.

 

[KJJ]

LOL......back at it again I see. Wade certainly had his short comings, but at least he is a football man. Romo had great years because he is Romo. Although I do recall many a Romo detractors claiming that Romo wasnt a good QB. Which have all been proven a joke by now. And no doubt we saw what Romo is capable of with a run game. The best season of his career. Another myth debunked.

What do you mean back at it again? Wade may be a football man but he was a lousy head coach and he admitted that himself read the article below. Romo has been productive because he's been in a offense that allows him to be productive and has had the skill players around him since he became the Cowboys QB to be productive. I'm not a Romo detractor and never claimed he wasn't a good QB I've always maintained he's a "very good" QB. Everyone knew a solid running game would make him an even better QB.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...-i-am-a-pretty-good-defensive-coordinator.ece

 

[KJJ]

I would never abandon the run in the first quarter. Thats how you get your QB killed.

Now I will agree the Oline was transitioning. But that was only part of the problem. Garretts lack of commitment, lack of guts to stick with it, and pass happy nature where big issues. Even when we ran it well in games he would go pass happy. We all saw Garrett lobby for Felix Jones as our first round pick that year. He was a finesse, pass happy, offensive guy. Troubling knowing that he came from the 90's Cowboys teams.

You have to abandon the run if it isn't working and you're down by double digits. With Murray missing games and the OL going through transition Romo was forced to carry the offense. With the defense not being able to stop anyone the Cowboys needed points and the strength of the offense was Romo and the passing game. The Cowboys had to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers like Dez. You can't keep forcing the run if it's not there and it's leading to 3rd and long situations all day. Jerry was the one who was most enamored with Felix Jones.

He was in love with McFadden and when he knew he couldn't get him he set his sites on Felix. Wade lobbied for Chris Johnson and Jerry admitted it. The Cowboys had no choice but to be pass happy due to unloading everyone on the OL in a short period and rebuilding it through the draft starting with Tyron Smith in 2011. Garrett stressed the importance of the running game from the day he took over as HC but the Cowboys couldn't run the ball consistently due to the transitioning OL and Murray missing games.

 

[Dodger12]

Well, that's a weird attempt at a spin. You're the one who mentioned winning games as your measurement for the quality of a HC and who didn't want to accept last year's 12-4 as your answer. I assumed you then wanted the wins inside of some relative context. Instead, you just wanted to flail a bit more. Have at it. You were wrong about Garrett though, and the roster, the cap, the winning percentage, and the big extension prove it. It doesn't matter that you're not ready to accept it.

Spin? LOL....I'm not the one comparing Garrett to Cowboy greats. Now that takes some spinning.

I accept 12 and 4, obviously. And when comparing wins, the fact that Garrett was mediocre with a franchise QB in his prime plays against him in my opinion. I stated very clearly where I stand:

When Garrett becomes as consistent with 12 and 4 and playoff wins as he was with 8 and 8 and end of the year collapses, I'll give him his due. Until then, I'll leave it to you to marvel at those .500 seasons with a franchise QB and claim he was successful.

But you are right about one thing. I was wrong about Garrett. I pimped him hard and wanted him promoted the year before he actually was. I was convinced he was the answer and bouoght into the fantasy because he played during the dynasty years. I thought he understood the importance of a running game and a balanced attack. I was dead wrong. I thought he'd have a grasp of game day management. I was dead wrong. I thought he'd be an innovative offensive mind. I was wrong again.

Wade finished with better records than Garrett and also won a playoff game, just like Garrett did. I didn't like the Phillips hire then and I don't like it any more now. Wasted years.

You keep pointing to his extension by a GM that needs a guy like Garrett for his comfort zone. I'll wait for the wins.

 

[Idgit]

Spin? LOL....I'm not the one comparing Garrett to Cowboy greats. Now that takes some spinning.

I accept 12 and 4, obviously. And when comparing wins, the fact that Garrett was mediocre with a franchise QB in his prime plays against him in my opinion. I stated very clearly where I stand:



But you are right about one thing. I was wrong about Garrett. I pimped him hard and wanted him promoted the year before he actually was. I was convinced he was the answer and bouoght into the fantasy because he played during the dynasty years. I thought he understood the importance of a running game and a balanced attack. I was dead wrong. I thought he'd have a grasp of game day management. I was dead wrong. I thought he'd be an innovative offensive mind. I was wrong again.

Wade finished with better records than Garrett and also won a playoff game, just like Garrett did. I didn't like the Phillips hire then and I don't like it any more now. Wasted years.

You keep pointing to his extension by a GM that needs a guy like Garrett for his comfort zone. I'll wait for the wins.

You mean you'll wait for some more wins. That ice floe you're sitting on is getting smaller and smaller, but you're right that the smart thing to do is probably just to sit it out. Good luck with that.

 

[CowboyRoy]

What do you mean back at it again? Wade may be a football man but he was a lousy head coach and he admitted that himself read the article below. Romo has been productive because he's been in a offense that allows him to be productive and has had the skill players around him since he became the Cowboys QB to be productive. I'm not a Romo detractor and never claimed he wasn't a good QB I've always maintained he's a "very good" QB. Everyone knew a solid running game would make him an even better QB.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...-i-am-a-pretty-good-defensive-coordinator.ece

Wade was a very good DC and below average head coach. Garrett was an horrid OC and a below average head coach. The difference with this team and Garrett now is that Clay and Jones have brought in some great talent in the last 3 drafts, and he now has two excellent coordinators to run both sides of the ball.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You have to abandon the run if it isn't working and you're down by double digits. With Murray missing games and the OL going through transition Romo was forced to carry the offense. With the defense not being able to stop anyone the Cowboys needed points and the strength of the offense was Romo and the passing game. The Cowboys had to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers like Dez. You can't keep forcing the run if it's not there and it's leading to 3rd and long situations all day. Jerry was the one who was most enamored with Felix Jones.

He was in love with McFadden and when he knew he couldn't get him he set his sites on Felix. Wade lobbied for Chris Johnson and Jerry admitted it. The Cowboys had no choice but to be pass happy due to unloading everyone on the OL in a short period and rebuilding it through the draft starting with Tyron Smith in 2011. Garrett stressed the importance of the running game from the day he took over as HC but the Cowboys couldn't run the ball consistently due to the transitioning OL and Murray missing games.

No, you dont have to abandon the run. Not in the first quarter. Murray has been averaging 4 yards a carry for a couple years now. He averaged 8 yards per carry two years ago against Detroit when we were up 23 points at the half. Garrett ran Murray only 7 more times that entire 2nd half and we lost. Romo threw 3 picks. The players on Detroit laughed and thanked Garrett for not continuing to run the ball. Then the guy laughed and said, that is just what they do. Garrett was pass happy to a fault. He simply didnt understand football and the affect running the ball can have on an entire team. Are you trying to tell me that the addition of one first round guard in the draft last year changed everything? Cmon, give me a break.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You have to abandon the run if it isn't working and you're down by double digits. With Murray missing games and the OL going through transition Romo was forced to carry the offense. With the defense not being able to stop anyone the Cowboys needed points and the strength of the offense was Romo and the passing game. The Cowboys had to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers like Dez. You can't keep forcing the run if it's not there and it's leading to 3rd and long situations all day. Jerry was the one who was most enamored with Felix Jones.

He was in love with McFadden and when he knew he couldn't get him he set his sites on Felix. Wade lobbied for Chris Johnson and Jerry admitted it. The Cowboys had no choice but to be pass happy due to unloading everyone on the OL in a short period and rebuilding it through the draft starting with Tyron Smith in 2011. Garrett stressed the importance of the running game from the day he took over as HC but the Cowboys couldn't run the ball consistently due to the transitioning OL and Murray missing games.

You are right about one thing.........Garrett always preached about the run game. Be he never had the fortitude to stick with it. Its no coincidence that the very first season he was taken completely away from the offense Murray and the boys storm the league rushing the football.

Pass on first down, run on second, now its 3rd and 8. That was Garrett when he ran the offense.

 

[KJJ]

No, you dont have to abandon the run. Not in the first quarter. Murray has been averaging 4 yards a carry for a couple years now. He averaged 8 yards per carry two years ago against Detroit when we were up 23 points at the half. Garrett ran Murray only 7 more times that entire 2nd half and we lost. Romo threw 3 picks. The players on Detroit laughed and thanked Garrett for not continuing to run the ball. Then the guy laughed and said, that is just what they do. Garrett was pass happy to a fault. He simply didnt understand football and the affect running the ball can have on an entire team. Are you trying to tell me that the addition of one first round guard in the draft last year changed everything? Cmon, give me a break.

At some point they had to pull away from the run because they were getting behind and were getting into a lot of long down situations. The defense couldn't hold and that forced the Cowboys to pass the ball which was the strength of the team. They have a productive QB and a dynamic young WR so the only way to win games was to put the ball up. The Detroit game was a poorly coached game by Garrett as well as the following week vs NE in a game the Cowboys were a couple of first downs away from sealing the win. They tried running the ball vs NE in the closing minutes and got stuffed! Garrett was still feeling the sting of Romo's second half meltdown the previous week and decided to keep the ball on the ground and rely on his defense that had just been toasted by Matt Stafford in the 4th quarter.

A lot of teams get pass happy when they have a very productive QB. Parcells who lived by the run and great defense got pretty pass happy once he saw what Romo could do in the passing game. When Garrett finally realized that Romo can't carry the team and will self destruct if he's forced to air it out every week he and Jerry were determined to build a real solid OL and lean on the run like the Cowboys did in the early to mid 90's. Garrett knew what a running game could do he was apart of some of the Cowboys 90's teams but the current team didn't have an Emmitt Smith who never missed games and they didn't have The Great Wall to run behind. What changed things last season was Murray playing all 16 games and the OL having another year of experience along with the addition of Martin.

 

[KJJ]

You are right about one thing.........Garrett always preached about the run game. Be he never had the fortitude to stick with it. Its no coincidence that the very first season he was taken completely away from the offense Murray and the boys storm the league rushing the football.

Pass on first down, run on second, now its 3rd and 8. That was Garrett when he ran the offense.

It's hard to stick with the run when you have QB's putting up 400 yards on you every few weeks. The defense has been awful for years and when you have even journeymen QB's carving you up and getting you down by double digits it forces you to have to throw the ball. Running the ball eats up the clock and when you need points you have to start being aggressive. Murray ran for 146 yards vs Chicago in 2013 averaging 8 yards a carry but the Cowboys got blown out because McCown destroyed our secondary. The Cowboys stuck with the run the entire game and although it was working they kept getting farther behind because running the ball eats up the clock and the Cowboys needed some quick scores because our D couldn't stop McCown and his receivers.

The following week vs Green Bay Murray put up 134 yards averaging just over 7 yards a carry and the Cowboys got beat again because the defense got shredded by Matt Flynn of all QB's. When you don't have a defense that can stop the passing game you have to put the ball up and win shootouts. Even with the great running game Murray provided in the playoffs vs Green Bay this past season it was the Cowboys inability to stop Rodgers that did them in. Your defense can dictate a lot of what you do on offense.

 

[CowboyRoy]

At some point they had to pull away from the run because they were getting behind and were getting into a lot of long down situations. The defense couldn't hold and that forced the Cowboys to pass the ball which was the strength of the team. They have a productive QB and a dynamic young WR so the only way to win games was to put the ball up. The Detroit game was a poorly coached game by Garrett as well as the following week vs NE in a game the Cowboys were a couple of first downs away from sealing the win. They tried running the ball vs NE in the closing minutes and got stuffed! Garrett was still feeling the sting of Romo's second half meltdown the previous week and decided to keep the ball on the ground and rely on his defense that had just been toasted by Matt Stafford in the 4th quarter.

A lot of teams get pass happy when they have a very productive QB. Parcells who lived by the run and great defense got pretty pass happy once he saw what Romo could do in the passing game. When Garrett finally realized that Romo can't carry the team and will self destruct if he's forced to air it out every week he and Jerry were determined to build a real solid OL and lean on the run like the Cowboys did in the early to mid 90's. Garrett knew what a running game could do he was apart of some of the Cowboys 90's teams but the current team didn't have an Emmitt Smith who never missed games and they didn't have The Great Wall to run behind. What changed things last season was Murray playing all 16 games and the OL having another year of experience along with the addition of Martin.

 

[CowboyRoy]

"at some point" "pull away"

Of course. But Garrett did it all too often, too many times, too early. And he certainly wasnt mentally committed to it with the offense. And there were plenty of games where it was working fine or great and he went away from it. Lets not forget his now infamous 8 year mantra of "take what the defense gives you". Allowing the defense to all but dictate what they want you to do.

But low and behold, we didnt see that mantra last year did we? Not with Linehan. We were going to pound the ball no matter what, when we wanted. We were committed, Even when people were stopping it. 90's Cowboys were the same way. First half they would be getting shut down, but they would come out at the half pounding the ball and eventually the defense would cave. Now granted the line wasnt always as good as last year, but you need to committ and cant abandon every week in the first quarter.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It's hard to stick with the run when you have QB's putting up 400 yards on you every few weeks. The defense has been awful for years and when you have even journeymen QB's carving you up and getting you down by double digits it forces you to have to throw the ball. Running the ball eats up the clock and when you need points you have to start being aggressive. Murray ran for 146 yards vs Chicago in 2013 averaging 8 yards a carry but the Cowboys got blown out because McCown destroyed our secondary. The Cowboys stuck with the run the entire game and although it was working they kept getting farther behind because running the ball eats up the clock and the Cowboys needed some quick scores because our D couldn't stop McCown and his receivers.

The following week vs Green Bay Murray put up 134 yards averaging just over 7 yards a carry and the Cowboys got beat again because the defense got shredded by Matt Flynn of all QB's. When you don't have a defense that can stop the passing game you have to put the ball up and win shootouts. Even with the great running game Murray provided in the playoffs vs Green Bay this past season it was the Cowboys inability to stop Rodgers that did them in. Your defense can dictate a lot of what you do on offense.