Jason LaCanfora: Dolphins shopping WR Ted Ginn

[masomenos]

huh... im

if you mean fooling me i know there is no such things. i was joking too until the years comment. lol

:laugh1:

Tomfoolery just means foolish behavior, nonsense. I didn't mean to offend with the "time pulls down all the greats" comment, it wasn't intended to come across sarcastically. Anyway, I apologize for any offense.

 

[Romo2Dez4six]

:laugh1:

Tomfoolery just means foolish behavior, nonsense. I didn't mean to offend with the "time pulls down all the greats" comment, it wasn't intended to come across sarcastically. Anyway, I apologize for any offense.

nah bro we don't have any problems.

 

[joseephuss]

In the last 3 seasons, Ginn has averaged 1829 all purpose yards per seasons. His problem, is holding on to the ball IMO. Last year, he was much better. He only had 2 Fumbles but in past years, he has been much worse. Still, an average of 1829 over 3 seasons is pretty dang good.

To put this in perspective, as good a year as Miles had last year, he only put up 1475 combined. Last year, Ginn had 1826 all purpose yards. That's not bad considering he only had 38 catches. The year before, he had 56 catches for 790 yards.

Last year, Crayton only had 37 catches and 622 yards. His All Purpose Yards last year were 1087 and that was by far, the best production of his entire career.

I think that I would would trade Crayton for Ginn if the opportunity to do so was there. Crayton is a good guy and a decent player but Ginn absolutely brings more to the table IMO.

I cannot agree. You can't compare the yardage gained returning kicks to the yards gained as a receiver. It is easier to pick up yards on kick off returns. Even bad kick returners will put up 19 to 20 yards per return. The best receivers are not going to average that much on receptions. It is not weighed the same.

Of those 1826 all purpose yards 72.51% of those were from kick and punt returns. Only 28 of those yards came off punt returns and he has 312 career punt return yards. A vast majority of his yards are from kick returns. While he has had some success there he also just returns a lot of kicks. His 63 returns in 2007 was the most that year and he had the 6th most in 2009.

Of Craytons 1087 all purpose yards 40.24% came from the return game. He is getting most of his yards within the offensive system.

Ginn does not bring more to the table because kick returns are not as important as what a receiver has to do with and without the ball. Dallas won the division and a playoff game without much success at the kick returner spot. I would not be willing to sacrifice a drop off at the 3rd wide receiver spot for more yards at kick returner. And Crayton is a better punt returner than Ginn.

If you are going to replace Crayton then you need to do it with a person that is going to produce the same amount or more within the offensive system. Ginn will not do that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

what about a ted ginn for sam hurd trade, straight up. both could use a change of scenary. ginn as a returner and 4th WR is not bad. Hurd might actually get a chance to play in Miami. He is too much like crayton and Roy Williams and won't get a chance here. plus Sprano knows him.

Why would you trade Ginn for Hurd?

Not saying Hurd isn't an OK player but I don't see why Miami would do that.

 

[JustDezIt]

not sayin that i want him, but has anyone considered that in miami he was basically the only wide reciever they had and all the presure was onhim to make the plays? Also that he had no one to take coverage away from him? Just wondering what ya think.

 

[CATCH17]

I think hurd is the Team's next crayton.

Sam Hurd is a vastly superior football player today than Ted Ginn.

Sam is a slow sure handed guy who runs good routes, plays well on special teams, and tony trusts him.

We can't get anything close to that out of Ginn right now.

Hurd may just need an opportunity. I thought he did a nice job when he was our #3 for a year.

Not to mention he is one of our best special teams players and hardest workers on the team.



Hurd is a better receiver and a better special teams player as well.

 

[dallasfaniac]

If you are going to replace Crayton then you need to do it with a person that is going to produce the same amount or more within the offensive system. Ginn will not do that.

Crayton has never had more than 697 yards receiving. Ginn almost broke 800 last year. I don't know that I would want Ginn to replace Crayton, but to say that he could never produce similar results is not accurate in my opinion.

 

[CATCH17]

Why would you trade Ginn for Hurd?

Not saying Hurd isn't an OK player but I don't see why Miami would do that.

If Miami does it than its because they believe Hurd can contribute more as a WR.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I cannot agree. You can't compare the yardage gained returning kicks to the yards gained as a receiver. It is easier to pick up yards on kick off returns. Even bad kick returners will put up 19 to 20 yards per return. The best receivers are not going to average that much on receptions. It is not weighed the same.

Of those 1826 all purpose yards 72.51% of those were from kick and punt returns. Only 28 of those yards came off punt returns and he has 312 career punt return yards. A vast majority of his yards are from kick returns. While he has had some success there he also just returns a lot of kicks. His 63 returns in 2007 was the most that year and he had the 6th most in 2009.

Of Craytons 1087 all purpose yards 40.24% came from the return game. He is getting most of his yards within the offensive system.

Ginn does not bring more to the table because kick returns are not as important as what a receiver has to do with and without the ball. Dallas won the division and a playoff game without much success at the kick returner spot. I would not be willing to sacrifice a drop off at the 3rd wide receiver spot for more yards at kick returner. And Crayton is a better punt returner than Ginn.

If you are going to replace Crayton then you need to do it with a person that is going to produce the same amount or more within the offensive system. Ginn will not do that.

If it's so easy, why don't we have anybody on the team who can put up those kinds of numbers? If it's so easy, why are we still looking for Return guys after how many seasons?

No, that doesn't hold water. We have a number 1 WR in Miles. I believe that we will have a number 2 WR in Roy. We have the best TE in the league in Wit. We have young guys who are showing some promise. There is no room, IMO, for Crayton if any of the young guys take the next step. If Roy steps up, there is probably no room for Crayton. Crayton is getting older and eventually, he is going to get replaced. Speed can make a difference. Crayton doesn't have that. Ginn does. In our offense, it's not even close. Ginn brings way more to the table then does Crayton. This isn't even something that can be argued IMO. We are going to spend a draft pick on somebody we hope can be a return guy for us and play some WR. That alone should tell us all that Ginn absolutely does bring something and something we are sorely missing.

In Crayton's first 3 years in the league, he caught a total of 70 catches for 1019 receiving yards. Total yards, over his first 3 years were 1304. He had 7 TDs. Ginn has 128 catches over his first three season, 1664 receiving yards and 5 receiving TDs. The best season, Crayton has ever had in the NFL, and we're talking 6 seasons here, is 2007 where he caught 50 balls and 697 yards with 7 TDs. Ginn has already had a season where he has caught 56 balls for 790 yards and 2 TDs. I grant you, the TD production in Crayton's 2007 season was superior but that's all. Crayton is who he is and he will likely never produce better numbers then he has already put up. If Ginn stays at the same lever he is now, he is already a much more productive player for this team and Ginn has not learned the game as well as Crayton has yet. Ginn is going to get better if he continues to work. I think we can all agree on that. I just can't agree with your postion here Josee

 

[dbair1967]

Big name-itis strikes CZ again.

Doesnt matter what level of sucktitude a player has had, but if he was soembody else's bum/loser/trash and chosen in the draft early, he'd be a great addition here.

 

[dbair1967]

Oh, no doubt that as a WR/KR Ginn would be an upgrade over Crayton.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh, no doubt that as a WR/KR Ginn would be an upgrade over Crayton.

I agree with you. I don't think there is any question.

As an FYI, Felix Jones was our best Kick Returner last year. Felix had 30 Returns for 678 yards and an average of 22.6 per return. He had no TDs.

Ginn had 52 returns for 1296 yards, an average of 24.9 per and 2 TDs.

I think anybody would agree that Felix is a pretty great athlete. Ginn is clearly as good in this area and actually, he's better. If for no other reason then to take that load off of Felix, you would figure that Felix will get more touches this year, Ginn would be a good trade if we could make that trade.

 

[Stash]

I agree with you. I don't think there is any question.

As an FYI, Felix Jones was our best Kick Returner last year. Felix had 30 Returns for 678 yards and an average of 22.6 per return. He had no TDs.

Ginn had 52 returns for 1296 yards, an average of 24.9 per and 2 TDs.

I think anybody would agree that Felix is a pretty great athlete. Ginn is clearly as good in this area and actually, he's better. If for no other reason then to take that load off of Felix, you would figure that Felix will get more touches this year, Ginn would be a good trade if we could make that trade.

You're making an excellent case and I think I would sign on for a Crayton for Ginn deal.

That said, I'm not sure the Dolphins would as I think they're looking for additional draft picks in return.

Looking at their roster, they've already got a few "Crayton's there already.

I wonder if anyone would be interested in a 3-team deal?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Big name-itis strikes CZ again.

Doesnt matter what level of sucktitude a player has had, but if he was soembody else's bum/loser/trash and chosen in the draft early, he'd be a great addition here.

Isn't that the truth.

Parcells wants to get rid of a guy because, no matter how fast he is, he's tiny and can't play receiver. And now he's going to be a huge upgrade for us? Why? We're going to keep a guy on the gameday roster to do one thing, return kicks?

 

[Stash]

Isn't that the truth.

Parcells wants to get rid of a guy because, no matter how fast he is, he's tiny and can't play receiver. And now he's going to be a huge upgrade for us? Why? We're going to keep a guy on the gameday roster to do one thing, return kicks?

Why not?

Guys like Hurd and Watkins stick around because they're "Special teams contributors", who better to label as a special teams contributor than a great return man?

I'd take a returner over a blocker.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're making an excellent case and I think I would sign on for a Crayton for Ginn deal.

That said, I'm not sure the Dolphins would as I think they're looking for additional draft picks in return.

Looking at their roster, they've already got a few "Crayton's there already.

I wonder if anyone would be interested in a 3-team deal?

I don't know that they would trade Crayton for Ginn either. However, if they would, I would do that deal.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Isn't that the truth.

Parcells wants to get rid of a guy because, no matter how fast he is, he's tiny and can't play receiver. And now he's going to be a huge upgrade for us? Why? We're going to keep a guy on the gameday roster to do one thing, return kicks?

I don't believe that Ginn could be a starting WR for us but I think he could be a slot WR or a third WR. Even if he was the fourth WR, that wouldn't be all that big of a deal IMO. Crayton is never going to be more then that for us in any case. I guess I just think that what we gain in the return game is a much bigger factor.

 

[Stash]

I don't believe that Ginn could be a starting WR for us but I think he could be a slot WR or a third WR. Even if he was the fourth WR, that wouldn't be all that big of a deal IMO. Crayton is never going to be more then that for us in any case. I guess I just think that what we gain in the return game is a much bigger factor.

I agree.

I think Ginn would bring a dynamic of speed and elusiveness that the current group lacks.

I think he'd be a nice slot receiver/return specialist.

And this is not a knock on Crayton.

I just think Ginn's speed and elusiveness would be a nice element to add.

 

[superpunk]

Ginn is ****ing terrible. Don't even start with me people. It was bad enough watching him LOSE games for the Dolphins last season, failing miserably in the 20 plays per game they actually gave him. Don't wish that level of incompetence on your own team.

 

[DFWJC]

Really...you disagree THAT much? You actually think as a KR/WR, that Crayton is way better than Ginn? Especially as a KR?
Really?