Jaylon Smith's nerve not firing

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Little Jr

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CalPolyTechnique

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Calling me dishonest after characterizing a paragraph as a blurb and claiming it doesn't mention nerve firing only to ignore the rebuttal is rich if not surprising from you.

I will reiterate that there is a news article that directly mentions his body is catching up to an already firing nerve.

As for your wishcasting of a new AFO:

I want you to take your argument about "stubborn intellectual dishonesty" --I knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself-- and apply it to your wishcasting that he is wearing a different brace. What evidence of a brace do you have at all whatsoever?

Further, I did not say that he was wearing it. I said it was obvious that he was not wearing it. He was wearing a dynamic AFO before, I linked its product page before after showing a still of it from TC. It had Ritchie stamped on the side of it making the search remarkably easy.

That was my entire point, he wore that brace before when we know he had a complete palsy. You are claiming that there is no change in that condition. Why would he change braces if there was still a complete palsy and no change?

Wearing a semirigid brace that he could in theory hide would be less support and imply an improvement in the condition.

Let's talk about AFO's though. There are several types of AFO's. There are the springloaded kind, like he wore before, that are big and bulky which he is clearly not wearing.

There are the semi-rigid kind that depend on the rigidity of the material they are made out of to return a foot to the upright position. That is what you are wishcasting that he is wearing. There are multiple reasons why I think that is not the case.

1) There is no evidence of him wearing one at all whatsoever.
2) They supply less support than the brace he was wearing before.
3) The motion in the video looks even and fluid. This would be near impossible to achieve with a semi-rigid piece of plastic strapped to the back of only one foot.
4) The thing about semi-rigid material is that it applies resistance regardless of the direction that you try and deform the material from its original shape. Sure it will pick the foot back up when it is pushed down but it will also work against any power the calf puts into the range of motion robbing an athlete of even more athleticism. Recall the motion was fluid and even.
5) He points the toe down at a steep angle without leverage on the way down. If he has a brace holding his foot up why would he fight the brace to the steep angle evident in the still? It looks to me that his peroneal is still weak and he just let his foot go after reaching the desired position which was the point of the exaggerated high knee hurdling.
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That's a lot of blather that ultimately added up to one big strawman. Thanks.

I NEVER said his condition hasn't improved. That's a patently bunk claim by you.

In fact, I said the exact opposite in one of the recent Jaylon related mega-threads when we discussed the very same issue and still photos.
You tried claiming he was still wearing the bulky AFO and proudly posted a photo from back in August 2016 before the season had even started. I believe his injury rehab/healing has progressed and that he's wearing a much more streamlined AFO (which you didn't even know existed until you got called-out for posting that old photo). His nerve pathway is regenerating down the leg and hopefully will restore full function of his foot. That said, there is no evidence that he can lift his foot.

The still photos and the accompanying explanations are completely obscure. You ask why he would point his toes down and fight against the brace? Are you kidding? Because that's how your foot articulates when you're jumping. You don't jump and naturally land flat-footed or on your heels unless you're near horizontal like long jumper into a sand pit. You'd have a point if one of his feet was dramatically lifted up (i.e. The dropped foot) and the other one pointed down. Instead, we see both feet in near unison and symmetry throughout the entire jumping motion.

I asked you this last time and you completely dodged the question. We both can agree we've seen Jaylon running around in the various posted videos with a brace and look almost completely normal when running. If the AFO provided no plantar flexion (as you suppose), then how is he able to run with a normal gate which includes pushing off with the forefoot?
 

tyke1doe

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Cowboys22 said:
Medical issues become common sense when they have been explained ad nausea and are very easy to understand in the first place. When it comes to nerves, regenerate and refire are totally different processes and are not interchangeable terms. What more would you like to know?
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First, I would think a nerve and how it acts and reacts isn't something that is common knowledge or subject to common sense which leads to ...
Second, I asked you to provide an article that explains this. It is NOT common knowledge as I don't know anything about the subject, which is why I asked you to provide some information so I can educate myself. I'm sorry if I don't take your word as the authority on this matter.
But if it is as common as you say, surely you can provide a link or some material. I would think you'd appreciate one who wants to educate himself rather than just accept what you say. Allow me to go through the same process as you supposed did in coming to your conclusion and deeming this a matter of "common sense."
 
Cowboys22

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tyke1doe said:
First, I would think a nerve and how it acts and reacts isn't something that is common knowledge or subject to common sense which leads to ...
Second, I asked you to provide an article that explains this. It is NOT common knowledge as I don't know anything about the subject, which is why I asked you to provide some information so I can educate myself. I'm sorry if I don't take your word as the authority on this matter.
But if it is as common as you say, surely you can provide a link or some material. I would think you'd appreciate one who wants to educate himself rather than just accept what you say. Allow me to go through the same process as you supposed did in coming to your conclusion and deeming this a matter of "common sense."
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First, you have heard of google haven't you? If you want to read an article about something written by a doctor, I suggest you start there.

Second, is this the first Jaylon Smith thread you have entered and read? All of this has been discussed and explained at length right here on this board for over a year now including numerous medical articles explaining every issue pertaining to damaged nerves and drop foot. I've simply paid attention, read, and learned about the topic from the numerous resources posted. So if you don't want to believe that regenerate and refire are not the same thing, good for you, but you would be wrong.
 

Noclaf

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Im almost sure at this point he will never see the field as a Cowboy and thats sad
 
DandyDon52

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KJJ said:
We're going to find out in the next few months if there's any chance Smith can return to form or even play. I'm prepared for the worst possible news that he can't play with this and is forced to announce his retirement. I'm not expecting that at least not at this point but once he gets to training camp and preseason and tries to play he and the team may come to the realization that's it's just not going to happen.

I'm sure the Cowboys/Jerry are going to at least try and play him because of the premium pick they gave up for him. They want to get at least some kind of contribution from him even if it's in spots so it's not a complete waste of a premium draft pick. We can speculate all we want but once we get to training camp THAT'S when we're going to find out if there's any chance Smith can contribute in 2017.
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Exactly, and the thing i wonder is how many here if they were jaylon would play with a brace or with the foot not working properly ??
If that could cause other injury's like to the knee etc, I dont think he is being smart to play if it risks other injurys .
 
FuzzyLumpkins

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CalPolyTechnique said:
That's a lot of blather that ultimately added up to one big strawman. Thanks.

I NEVER said his condition hasn't improved. That's a patently bunk claim by you.

In fact, I said the exact opposite in one of the recent Jaylon related mega-threads when we discussed the very same issue and still photos.
You tried claiming he was still wearing the bulky AFO and proudly posted a photo from back in August 2016 before the season had even started. I believe his injury rehab/healing has progressed and that he's wearing a much more streamlined AFO (which you didn't even know existed until you got called-out for posting that old photo). His nerve pathway is regenerating down the leg and hopefully will restore full function of his foot. That said, there is no evidence that he can lift his foot.

The still photos and the accompanying explanations are completely obscure. You ask why he would point his toes down and fight against the brace? Are you kidding? Because that's how your foot articulates when you're jumping. You don't jump and naturally land flat-footed or on your heels unless you're near horizontal like long jumper into a sand pit. You'd have a point if one of his feet was dramatically lifted up (i.e. The dropped foot) and the other one pointed down. Instead, we see both feet in near unison and symmetry throughout the entire jumping motion.

I asked you this last time and you completely dodged the question. We both can agree we've seen Jaylon running around in the various posted videos with a brace and look almost completely normal when running. If the AFO provided no plantar flexion (as you suppose), then how is he able to run with a normal gate which includes pushing off with the forefoot?
Click to expand...

You would go for the cheap blanket dismissal. You acting obtuse about the intent of question by generalizing it when what we have been arguing about is his foot drop is typical from you but nonsense nonetheless.

You said he is not able to lift his foot which means no progress.

His knee was cleared last summer. And the range of motion issues a knee would cause would not result in the high knee, club foot gait that he was exhibiting last year. He has had no muscular issues outside of the peroneal which won't move if the nerve does not fire.

He's just progressed in the nebulous sense? Something specific needs to get better.

What exactly has progressed so that he would use a lighter brace, which is designed for less severe drop foot than what we have seen him wear, if he is not able to lift his foot?

I am aware that is how one naturally articulates but we are talking about him dipping his left foot more than the right after the apex of the jump. The same left foot that supposedly has a piece of plastic propping it up artificially. You completely ignored the fluidity argument.

Whether or not he is wearing a brace on the back of his foot as you are wishcasting for is obscure and I am not saying you can conclude that from visual evidence of a lack of brace. You can see the orientation of his foot clearly. I think it's amusing that you think he could easily and quickly point his foot down like that with a semirigid brace on.

As for your question, I don't think he had any plantarflexion last year. I know for a fact that he did not in TC because he wore a brace that only allowed dorsiflexion.

http://www.richiebrace.com/index.php/products/the-richie-dynamic-assist-brace.html

I also don't think he had the fluid gait then that he exhibits now. He used to pick his knee up exaggeratedly. The drills that they had him do had him high knee running and were not the jumping and lateral shuffling that we see him do now as he pushes the drop foot envelope. Your problem is a lack of attention to detail which leads you to ask questions with false premises.
 
FuzzyLumpkins

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Cowboys22 said:
First, you have heard of google haven't you? If you want to read an article about something written by a doctor, I suggest you start there.

Second, is this the first Jaylon Smith thread you have entered and read? All of this has been discussed and explained at length right here on this board for over a year now including numerous medical articles explaining every issue pertaining to damaged nerves and drop foot. I've simply paid attention, read, and learned about the topic from the numerous resources posted. So if you don't want to believe that regenerate and refire are not the same thing, good for you, but you would be wrong.
Click to expand...

In fairness though the studies and whatnot do not talk in terms of "refiring." They talk in terms of "innervation."
 
Little Jr

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Is there spring action in the hinge to lift your foot?
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It locks my foot in at a 90° to my leg but yes it can move up. Just not down. Its a old style but it's fitted you leg. They took a mild of my leg to make it. Others I liked but not as comfortable. None are really that comfortable. Lol at least not the ones I need.
 
Little Jr

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Looks similar to what happened to my brother in a motorcycle accident. He got a bone infection and almost died. Scary stuff.
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Yeah I had a ilizarov and most the patients my Dr had were ones who had previous injuries treated by other Dr and they ended with a bone infection. Then he had to go in and cut the infected part off and put a ilizarov on. I got mrsa but not in the bone. It was from 2 pins that were in my leg when I had a external fixation. That really sucked. I almost died but it was from loss of blood. Lost 8 pints.
 
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