Jeff Fisher said on Fox Radio that...

[T-New41]

It has been mentioned over and over...Dom Capers in Miami before Cam Cameron was hired as the HC. He was already there, but was expected to leave. There was even a contingent to bring him here to replace Zimmer. Capers was clearly NOT Cameron's choice as the DC but Cameron was fine with him being retained. His contract was over. Miami wanted to keep him. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.

People are going to say it's not the same, but it is the same. Or at the very least as close as it can get. There is no way on this earth to have 100% equal circumstances to use as an example.

It is a Coordinator being given a contract an in place before a HC is named. That is the criteria. All the rest of this is fluff and spin by those who simply want to find the Boogie Man under the bed.

Bottom line, Jerry scored a major coup getting Garrett back int he fold. As Jason's father said, "we're Cowboy people."

Damn right. This kid and his whole family are 100% loyal to this organization. How is this a bad hire? Answer, it isn't.

I swear, some people would gripe if they got hung with a new rope.

:thankyou:

 

[iceberg]

Who cares what Jeff Fisher says. Ya'll act like he is one of the best coaches in the league. Why anyone would want him here is a complete mystery. He is simply lucky that he did a bad enough job last year and some teams were stupid enough to let Vince young slide, otherwise they are looking at another sub 500 season. As it is they were only 500. Their super bowl run was complete luck, remember the music city miracle...oh yeah...

In his 12, TWELVE years with the Titans he has had 4, FOUR, winning seasons.

well you'd think the titans would love to see him go, right? i mean, it's their 8 losing seasons he's carrying around, right?

when you stop the rant to take a breathe, just tell me why such a losing franchise would want to keep such a "loser".

 

[CrazyCowboy]

We need to go with Garrett....he has to learn sometime and he has been with great coaches since 2000

 

[kjsm5]

Who cares what Jeff Fisher says. Ya'll act like he is one of the best coaches in the league. Why anyone would want him here is a complete mystery. He is simply lucky that he did a bad enough job last year and some teams were stupid enough to let Vince young slide, otherwise they are looking at another sub 500 season. As it is they were only 500. Their super bowl run was complete luck, remember the music city miracle...oh yeah...

In his 12, TWELVE years with the Titans he has had 4, FOUR, winning seasons.

Bingo!

 

[utrunner07]

well you'd think the titans would love to see him go, right? i mean, it's their 8 losing seasons he's carrying around, right?

when you stop the rant to take a breathe, just tell me why such a losing franchise would want to keep such a "loser".

I have no idea. If he were here you know people would be running him out of town after only 4 winning seasons in 12 years. Why the Titans keep him is beyond me.

 

[Doomsday101]

unless it's parcells, then the players just didn't execute.

heard that a lot too.

amazing how facts change according to personal needs.

Not sure what your driving at, player execution is a must no matter what system or game plan you put in. I would say that about any coach, he can only do so much and in the end the player have to execute. Coaches do not fumble or throw int or jump offside or any other mistake that can cost a team a win players do that. This thread however is about how much say so a HC should have over his staff. Fisher is right there are coaches who remain with the team when a new HC takes over and I have no problem with that as long as it is the HC himself who has final say so of who is on his staff or not. If your going to be put in a situation where you job depends on your assistant coaches then you damn well want guys who believe in and trust.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Jeff Fisher was just on Fox radio and said that in the NFL now coaches go to teams that have staff members already in place more and more...that it wasnt common in past years but that has changed around the league some.

said that coaches dont always go in and name their whole staff if there are coaches already there under contract...that it isnt a big deal unless that coach has some specific problem with a coach already there or whatever.

but hey..what would Jeff Fisher know? I mean its happened even this offseason in Miami and Zona but some here think its totally taboo....

One, it's been a problem here in the past when JJ has hired the assistants. I don't know how anyone can deny that. I'm not saying it will automatically be a failure this time, but I just don't like the feeling of going back to doing things the way we used to during the Gailey / Campo years.

So while Tomlin or some other HC's are having some assistants forced on them, how many of these said assistants are stated to be on the fast track to being a future HC in the organization?

I think Pittsburgh has in mind Tomlin being a longterm answer. I doubt they hired him hoping one of the assistants they retained will take over in 3-4 years.

 

[DizzG]

One, it's been a problem here in the past when JJ has hired the assistants. I don't know how anyone can deny that. I'm not saying it will automatically be a failure this time, but I just don't like the feeling of going back to doing things the way we used to during the Gailey / Campo years.

So while Tomlin or some other HC's are having some assistants forced on them, how many of these said assistants are stated to be on the fast track to being a future HC in the organization?

I think Pittsburgh has in mind Tomlin being a longterm answer. I doubt they hired him hoping one of the assistants they retained will take over in 3-4 years.

I dont see a problem with getting Garrett on board. it was either going to happen now or not at all

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

It has been mentioned over and over...Dom Capers in Miami before Cam Cameron was hired as the HC. He was already there, but was expected to leave. There was even a contingent to bring him here to replace Zimmer. Capers was clearly NOT Cameron's choice as the DC but Cameron was fine with him being retained. His contract was over. Miami wanted to keep him. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.

People are going to say it's not the same, but it is the same. Or at the very least as close as it can get. There is no way on this earth to have 100% equal circumstances to use as an example.

It is a Coordinator being given a contract an in place before a HC is named. That is the criteria. All the rest of this is fluff and spin by those who simply want to find the Boogie Man under the bed.

Bottom line, Jerry scored a major coup getting Garrett back int he fold. As Jason's father said, "we're Cowboy people."

Damn right. This kid and his whole family are 100% loyal to this organization. How is this a bad hire? Answer, it isn't.

I swear, some people would gripe if they got hung with a new rope.

To be fair concerning the Capers situation.

Word I heard was that Miami asked the few coaches that they were interviewing if they had a problem with Dom Staying as DC and EVERYone of them said they were ok with it because they thought he is an excellent DC.

Whether that is true or not, I don't know, but like I said I heard they were indeed asked about it first.

 

[DipChit]

It's one thing if a proven coordinator is already in place and ownership decides they want to keep him.. even like Zimmer.

It's also one thing if a new OC is brought on board before a new HC if that coordinator is already proven in this league. Say a Norv for example.

In either of these cases a new HC might not be overly thrilled about it but wouldnt necessarily have cause to be totally alarmed by it.

It's quite another thing though when not only is an OC handpicked ahead of time but when said OC has never played that role before and has only been coaching on the bottom rung as a whole for 2 years.

I think it's safe to assume that a guy coming in for the possible HC job (who isnt just desperate for one) would be a lil concerned by that. Unless he was an offensive control freak himself (not unlike say Payton) and would just dictate the OC's role anyway.

But last I checked the up and comer HC prospects we're looking at are D guys not O guys.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I dont see a problem with getting Garrett on board. it was either going to happen now or not at all

I see a problem with Jerry once again hiring an assistant before the HC. And on top of it basically proclaiming that said assistant is on the fast track to being the next HC. What quality HC would want to come here knowing we have a trainee in place to take his job in a couple of years?

And if Jason was actually hired to be the HC, then that just goes to a whole 'nother level altogether, hiring someone who is so inexperienced to run the show.

 

[Dodger12]

It has been mentioned over and over...Dom Capers in Miami before Cam Cameron was hired as the HC. He was already there, but was expected to leave. There was even a contingent to bring him here to replace Zimmer. Capers was clearly NOT Cameron's choice as the DC but Cameron was fine with him being retained. His contract was over. Miami wanted to keep him. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that.

People are going to say it's not the same, but it is the same. Or at the very least as close as it can get. There is no way on this earth to have 100% equal circumstances to use as an example.

It is a Coordinator being given a contract an in place before a HC is named. That is the criteria. All the rest of this is fluff and spin by those who simply want to find the Boogie Man under the bed.

Bottom line, Jerry scored a major coup getting Garrett back int he fold. As Jason's father said, "we're Cowboy people."

Damn right. This kid and his whole family are 100% loyal to this organization. How is this a bad hire? Answer, it isn't.

I swear, some people would gripe if they got hung with a new rope.

Hos, I don't mean to tweak the tiger's nose in my first post but here goes. Dom Capers is probably one of the best DC's in the NFL, hands down. If Parcell's had stayed and announced Capers as the DC of the Cowboys, we'd all be drooling over the choice and the possibilities of what he can do with this defense. You and I both know that Capers running this D would have an immediate impact and would make us a pre-season favorite. Instant credibility.

Does Garrett's hiring do the same thing? Is there not a bit of head scratching going on? I'm with you on his Cowboys ties and I'd love for him to have been groomed under a BP type coach who would hand over the reins in a couple of years. We can all bring up examples of assistants/coordinators in place at the time a HC is hired, but I'll bet it's more rare than it is common. And Jeff Fisher qualifies his statement by mentioning coordinators "under contract". As for the Steelers, Tomlin promoted his OC from within and Tomlin retained LeBeau to be DC. Nowhere does it mention that they were forced down his throat as some here have mentioned.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun. But I see Jones reverting to his pre-Parcell's days. I want Garrett molded by a head coach, not an owner. I see the writing on the wall; Jones doesn't want to miss out on the next Payton and his new HC will understand that Garrett is the future. In essence, the next HC will be a lame duck and caretaker for the next chosen one. That's why I believe that Wade Phillips, with whom Jones is comfortable, will be the next HC. What message does that send to the players with regards to the HC's authority? That's my biggest question.

 

[gbrittain]

To me it is just not a big deal if the OC is hired before the HC. No one is being forced into anything.

If Garrett is the OC and the potential HC does not like Garrett or his system he simply bows out.

If the potential HC likes what sees in Garrett and signs on the dotted line then big whoop. It all worked out.

The only this can go wrong is if the HC signs on the dotted line despite not believing in Garrett. Then that is on the HC. He should have had the ability to make the tough call and pass for the next opportunity.

I am glad Garrett is on board no matter the capacity.

 

[chinch]

Jeff Fisher was just on Fox radio and said that in the NFL now coaches go to teams that have staff members already in place more and more...that it wasnt common in past years but that has changed around the league some.

sounds like he's keeping his options open to coach the Cowboys as he knows how jerry operates.

 

[hank2k]

To me it is just not a big deal if the OC is hired before the HC. No one is being forced into anything.

If Garrett is the OC and the potential HC does not like Garrett or his system he simply bows out.

So then the offensive coordinator essentially determines who the HC is ??

"I feel like Im taking crazy pills!"

 

[Hostile]

Hos, I don't mean to tweak the tiger's nose in my first post but here goes. Dom Capers is probably one of the best DC's in the NFL, hands down. If Parcell's had stayed and announced Capers as the DC of the Cowboys, we'd all be drooling over the choice and the possibilities of what he can do with this defense. You and I both know that Capers running this D would have an immediate impact and would make us a pre-season favorite. Instant credibility.

Does Garrett's hiring do the same thing? Is there not a bit of head scratching going on? I'm with you on his Cowboys ties and I'd love for him to have been groomed under a BP type coach who would hand over the reins in a couple of years. We can all bring up examples of assistants/coordinators in place at the time a HC is hired, but I'll bet it's more rare than it is common. And Jeff Fisher qualifies his statement by mentioning coordinators "under contract". As for the Steelers, Tomlin promoted his OC from within and Tomlin retained LeBeau to be DC. Nowhere does it mention that they were forced down his throat as some here have mentioned.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun. But I see Jones reverting to his pre-Parcell's days. I want Garrett molded by a head coach, not an owner. I see the writing on the wall; Jones doesn't want to miss out on the next Payton and his new HC will understand that Garrett is the future. In essence, the next HC will be a lame duck and caretaker for the next chosen one. That's why I believe that Wade Phillips, with whom Jones is comfortable, will be the next HC. What message does that send to the players with regards to the HC's authority? That's my biggest question.

to the forum, and I'm not the tiger though. Just an overly opinionated guy with a lot to say. Good first post. I hope you'll post a lot more. Especially if this is any indication of the thoughts you can share here. 2 years is silence enough. Please join in.

Okay, here goes. My first choice would be for Jerry to go ahead and name Garrett as the Head Coach. I too am a bit leery of the caretaker stuff. My question is, what if that's what Garrett thinks is best? We do not know that.

I think Jerry is just being cautious, and he can be. There are no other open Head jobs at this point. He went out and landed someone who no less than 4 teams sought.

1. Saban wanted him to come with him to Alabama. The only assistant he was planning to take with him.

2. The Cleveland Browns wanted to interview him for their OC job and were rebuffed.

3. Miami wanted him to stay on board.

4. Dallas wanted him.


To me this should speak volumes about this kid. But it seems to be falling on deaf ears. So let's scream a little louder.

Nate Newton just praised him and said go ahead and hire him as the HC. Why would Nate say this?

Troy Aikman said he would be a great hire and said JG was a "Coach on the Field" when he was his backup. Troy said in an interview one time that JG knew the offense as good as Jack Reilly or Ernie Zampese.

Jimmy Johnson endorsed him.

Chris Mortenson said in NFL circles they're calling this a "good hire."

Call me crazy, but those are some people whose opinions I trust more than the grassy knoll thinking of fans on a message board. It isn't that I don't value the opinions here. I do. I just think when actual NFL types are positive over a move, maybe, just maybe, the fans ought to pull back and re-think it.


Regarding the hiring or in place Coordinators angle. I just don't think it matters. Every incoming Head Coach knows that some of the staff will be in place. Capers is only one example. Zimmer was here as the DC when Parcells arrived and one of the things Jerry wanted from him was the committment to keep him. This happens all the time. Jeff Fisher even said so.


Regarding hiring a guy without Coordinator experience we've had the examples of Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, & Mangini.

Now, looking at that stuff which comes from sources other than me, but is posted all over this forum, why is there so much doubt?

I'm not telling you to change your mind. Nor anyone else. I don't see this as a meddling move by Jerry Jones and him reverting to form. No one wanted Switzer, Gailey, or Campo. Teams wanted Garrett. That should be more than evident.

Is Jerry seeking his own Sean Payton success story? Of course he is. What exactly is bad about that? I honestly don't know.

 

[DizzG]

excellent post

 

[sonnyboy]

to the forum, and I'm not the tiger though. Just an overly opinionated guy with a lot to say. Good first post. I hope you'll post a lot more. Especially if this is any indication of the thoughts you can share here. 2 years is silence enough. Please join in.

Okay, here goes. My first choice would be for Jerry to go ahead and name Garrett as the Head Coach. I too am a bit leery of the caretaker stuff. My question is, what if that's what Garrett thinks is best? We do not know that.

I think Jerry is just being cautious, and he can be. There are no other open Head jobs at this point. He went out and landed someone who no less than 4 teams sought.

1. Saban wanted him to come with him to Alabama. The only assistant he was planning to take with him.

2. The Cleveland Browns wanted to interview him for their OC job and were rebuffed.

3. Miami wanted him to stay on board.

4. Dallas wanted him.


To me this should speak volumes about this kid. But it seems to be falling on deaf ears. So let's scream a little louder.

Nate Newton just praised him and said go ahead and hire him as the HC. Why would Nate say this?

Troy Aikman said he would be a great hire and said JG was a "Coach on the Field" when he was his backup. Troy said in an interview one time that JG knew the offense as good as Jack Reilly or Ernie Zampese.

Jimmy Johnson endorsed him.

Chris Mortenson said in NFL circles they're calling this a "good hire."

Call me crazy, but those are some people whose opinions I trust more than the grassy knoll thinking of fans on a message board. It isn't that I don't value the opinions here. I do. I just think when actual NFL types are positive over a move, maybe, just maybe, the fans ought to pull back and re-think it.


Regarding the hiring or in place Coordinators angle. I just don't think it matters. Every incoming Head Coach knows that some of the staff will be in place. Capers is only one example. Zimmer was here as the DC when Parcells arrived and one of the things Jerry wanted from him was the committment to keep him. This happens all the time. Jeff Fisher even said so.


Regarding hiring a guy without Coordinator experience we've had the examples of Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, & Mangini.

Now, looking at that stuff which comes from sources other than me, but is posted all over this forum, why is there so much doubt?

I'm not telling you to change your mind. Nor anyone else. I don't see this as a meddling move by Jerry Jones and him reverting to form. No one wanted Switzer, Gailey, or Campo. Teams wanted Garrett. That should be more than evident.

Is Jerry seeking his own Sean Payton success story? Of course he is. What exactly is bad about that? I honestly don't know.

Great Post. Will certainly fall on the deaf ears of all the Jerry Haters.

Don't you know every move Jerry makes is wrong.

He could steal away Mangini for HC, Tuner for OC, Garrett for QB Coach, Capers for DC with LaBuea and Rivera as his assistants.
All without compensating their current teams.

He could do all this in six days and the haters would complain he rested on the seventh!

 

[DipChit]

Okay, here goes. My first choice would be for Jerry to go ahead and name Garrett as the Head Coach. I too am a bit leery of the caretaker stuff. My question is, what if that's what Garrett thinks is best? We do not know that.

I think Jerry is just being cautious, and he can be. There are no other open Head jobs at this point. He went out and landed someone who no less than 4 teams sought.

1. Saban wanted him to come with him to Alabama. The only assistant he was planning to take with him.

2. The Cleveland Browns wanted to interview him for their OC job and were rebuffed.

3. Miami wanted him to stay on board.

4. Dallas wanted him.


Regarding hiring a guy without Coordinator experience we've had the examples of Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, & Mangini.

Is Jerry seeking his own Sean Payton success story? Of course he is. What exactly is bad about that? I honestly don't know.

But you do understand why even rational non Jerry haters would be concerned about some things no matter how fluffy one puts it, right? Especially if we're talking HC.

First off, those other teams you cite werent interested in him in that role yet.

Secondly the guys you mention in regards to being given the HC job without OC experience, took over teams that were 4-12, 4-12, 3-13 and 4-12 respectively so those teams had nothing to really lose by giving those guys a shot.

I believe people around here would like to think we're just a lil bit closer than that and as such some would just feel better about giving someone else the nod. And if even that person cant help get us over the hump in the next couple years, JG will be right there to take the reins at that point.

And nothing about having him wait a couple years, hell even just 1 should we tank next year, while taking on more responsibility in the meantime, would owe to him being somehow *less* prepared at that point.

 

[jterrell]

Jeff Fisher was just on Fox radio and said that in the NFL now coaches go to teams that have staff members already in place more and more...that it wasnt common in past years but that has changed around the league some.

said that coaches dont always go in and name their whole staff if there are coaches already there under contract...that it isnt a big deal unless that coach has some specific problem with a coach already there or whatever.

but hey..what would Jeff Fisher know? I mean its happened even this offseason in Miami and Zona but some here think its totally taboo....

What would you expect him to say?????

He is about to be a free agent coach.
He isn't ruling anything out.

A GM should get to hire his head coach. A head coach should get to hire his assistants.

Thats just simple logic....