Jerry Jones on Carr

[Nightman]

Exactly how we did it with Free. Cut remaining salary in half and guaranteed it. Pretty simple.

That is the only way to do it.

A restructure or extension should be out of the picture.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

He's not a bad player, even if he may be overpriced. But I wouldn't want to give up more money either.

If we half to say he is not a bad player we are talking scrubs. He is one. Only he can contribute as a bench warmer.

 

[Kaiser]

0 guaranteed dollars and BJones is DAL's leverage.

They could cut Carr Sept 9th and he would get nothing. He would hope to sign with someone after Week1.

DAL doesn't need Carr's permission to restructure his deal. They would just do it.

This is about a pay cut or being cut.

True, the other factor that is leverage for the Cowboys is that most teams in the NFL picked up CBs in the draft or FA already (if they even had cap room to begin with). Jerry was smart to wait things out because this late in the offseason, very few teams would bid on Carr if he was cut and Carr knows that. Carr has some leverage in that he is a starting caliber CB and Dallas doesn't want to eat his entire contract and get nothing in return. But the Cowboys have much more leverage and Carr has almost no option but to take the kind of pay cut you are talking about.

 

[Nightman]

True, the other factor that is leverage for the Cowboys is that most teams in the NFL picked up CBs in the draft or FA already (if they even had cap room to begin with). Jerry was smart to wait things out because this late in the offseason, very few teams would bid on Carr if he was cut and Carr knows that. Carr has some leverage in that he is a starting caliber CB and Dallas doesn't want to eat his entire contract and get nothing in return. But the Cowboys have much more leverage and Carr has almost no option but to take the kind of pay cut you are talking about.

The best outcome for everyone would be a staggered guarantee of 8-9m.

He would get 4m this year and 5m next year if he is still on the roster March 1st.

 

[gimmesix]

Exactly how we did it with Free. Cut remaining salary in half and guaranteed it. Pretty simple.

So his remaining salary is $17.1 million. You want to guarantee him half of that over the two years remaining on his deal?

To do that Dallas also has to give him at least the veteran minimum for base salary, so we're looking at paying him more than $5 million a year both of those years (with essentially $4.5 million guaranteed each year).

His cap hit would be $9.75 million each of those years (counting his signing bonus and restructure bonus), instead of $12.7 million this year and $13.6 in 2016.

Do you find $9.75 million to be palatable, with Dallas taking a $9 million hit if it cuts Carr next year (or $4.5 for two years after June 1 ... just like this year)?

If you're talking about cutting his 2015 salary in half and offering him that guaranteed, I don't see Carr's incentive to take it at this point. The only reason to take the $4 million guaranteed is if Dallas says it will cut him otherwise because he'll be guaranteed twice that if he's on the roster the first week. Maybe the Cowboys are saying that privately, but they certainly are not saying it publicly.

 

[Nightman]

So his remaining salary is $17.1 million. You want to guarantee him half of that over the two years remaining on his deal?

To do that Dallas also has to give him at least the veteran minimum for base salary, so we're looking at paying him more than $5 million a year both of those years (with essentially $4.5 million guaranteed each year).

His cap hit would be $9.75 million each of those years (counting his signing bonus and restructure bonus), instead of $12.7 million this year and $13.6 in 2016.

Do you find $9.75 million to be palatable, with Dallas taking a $9 million hit if it cuts Carr next year (or $4.5 for two years after June 1 ... just like this year)?

If you're talking about cutting his 2015 salary in half and offering him that guaranteed, I don't see Carr's incentive to take it at this point. The only reason to take the $4 million guaranteed is if Dallas says it will cut him otherwise because he'll be guaranteed twice that if he's on the roster the first week. Maybe the Cowboys are saying that privately, but they certainly are not saying it publicly.

It is not just what's palatable, there are 52 other players to deal with

You can't take a hard line with Murray, OScan, DWare, RoMclain and Free and let Carr keep collecting on his 10m APY deal

Carr has no leverage. Dallas is obviously willing to cut him. They can do it now or Sept 9th. Either way he has to get a new deal from someone else. His track record in DAL is horrible. Someone may go to 4-5m, but they may not.

DAL would take a 50% pay cut to 4m this year and a possible 5m next year if he played well. Carr gets new guaranteed money to stay in DAL and the Cowboys get to stay strong with other negotiations.

 

[gimmesix]

It is not just what's palatable, there are 52 other players to deal with

You can't take a hard line with Murray, OScan, DWare, RoMclain and Free and let Carr keep collecting on his 10m APY deal

Carr has no leverage. Dallas is obviously willing to cut him. They can do it now or Sept 9th. Either way he has to get a new deal from someone else. His track record in DAL is horrible. Someone may go to 4-5m, but they may not.

DAL would take a 50% pay cut to 4m this year and a possible 5m next year if he played well. Carr gets new guaranteed money to stay in DAL and the Cowboys get to stay strong with other negotiations.

There is absolutely no evidence that Dallas "is obviously willing to cut him." It flies in the face of what the Cowboys have been saying.

IRVING, Texas -- Brandon Carr will be on the Dallas Cowboys in 2015.

That wasn't so assured when the offseason began, but owner and general manager Jerry Jones made the statement on Wednesday.

I think people here have a tendency to not believe what Jones says, but he is generally truthful. He doesn't always answer questions directly when he doesn't want to confirm something, but when he is direct he sticks by it.

Dallas being willing to cut Carr is a myth that doesn't fit with what Jones has said, so building any kind of plan around that myth is invalid at this time. That doesn't mean the situation won't change, but there is nothing obvious about it right now other than Jones saying Carr will be on the team.

If you can tell me how Dallas gets from point A) not cutting Carr to point B) getting Carr to take a 50 percent pay cut, I'll go with it. But any scenario that includes the threat of being cut is just not there at this time.

If I'm Carr, I don't budge without the threat of being cut unless Dallas guarantees me more than the $8 million I'm supposed to get paid this year. Guarantee me $10 million over the next two seasons and I'll reduce both base salaries. That's pluses for both. The Cowboys get to cut my cap hit over the next two years by $7 million while I essentially make $2 million next year even if I'm cut.

 

[Nightman]

There is absolutely no evidence that Dallas "is obviously willing to cut him." It flies in the face of what the Cowboys have been saying.



I think people here have a tendency to not believe what Jones says, but he is generally truthful. He doesn't always answer questions directly when he doesn't want to confirm something, but when he is direct he sticks by it.

Dallas being willing to cut Carr is a myth that doesn't fit with what Jones has said, so building any kind of plan around that myth is invalid at this time. That doesn't mean the situation won't change, but there is nothing obvious about it right now other than Jones saying Carr will be on the team.

If you can tell me how Dallas gets from point A) not cutting Carr to point B) getting Carr to take a 50 percent pay cut, I'll go with it. But any scenario that includes the threat of being cut is just not there at this time.

The fact that they are openly talking about his contract can only mean they are willing to cut him.

They don't need his permission to restructure his deal and no one is talking an extension to his current anchor of a deal.

He either takes a pay cut or gets cut.

 

[gimmesix]

The fact that they are openly talking about his contract can only mean they are willing to cut him.

No, it doesn't. The fact that he said Carr is going to be with the team in 2015 means that Carr is going to be with the team. How hard is that to understand?

Restructuring (without a reduction in overall money) and an extension aren't the only options here.

The team is talking to him about his contract because they are trying to entice him to reduce his contract. To get him to do that, Dallas is going to have to offer "some pluses for him" that make it worth it for Carr. There are no pluses in a 50 percent pay cut for a player who isn't under threat of being cut.

 

[Nightman]

No, it doesn't. The fact that he said Carr is going to be with the team in 2015 means that Carr is going to be with the team. How hard is that to understand?

Restructuring (without a reduction in overall money) and an extension aren't the only options here.

The team is talking to him about his contract because they are trying to entice him to reduce his contract. To get him to do that, Dallas is going to have to offer "some pluses for him" that make it worth it for Carr. There are no pluses in a 50 percent pay cut for a player who isn't under threat of being cut.

Believe what you want. There are no contract talks without the threat of being cut.

If DAL was fine with paying him another 8m this year they would've just kept their mouths shut and paid him.

 

[gimmesix]

Believe what you want. There are no contract talks without the threat of being cut.

If DAL was fine with paying him another 8m this year they would've just kept their mouths shut and paid him.

I'll believe what the GM is saying.

You make it seem like the threat of being cut is the only way Dallas can have a contract talk with Carr. Jerry clearly says they are using incentives (pluses) to try to get him to agree to less of a cap hit. The Cowboys can't offer him incentives by keeping their mouths shut and just paying him.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Believe what you want. There are no contract talks without the threat of being cut.

If DAL was fine with paying him another 8m this year they would've just kept their mouths shut and paid him.

They also would have cut him by now if that was the plan....................Carr and his agent have both said numerous times that a straight up pay cut is not happening.....................not sure why so many here cant understand that.

 

[Nightman]

I'll believe what the GM is saying.

You make it seem like the threat of being cut is the only way Dallas can have a contract talk with Carr. Jerry clearly says they are using incentives (pluses) to try to get him to agree to less of a cap hit. The Cowboys can't offer him incentives by keeping their mouths shut and just paying him.

It is. He has a contract that pays him 8m this year and 9m next year. Unless DAL is offering more money there is no reason to answer the phone.

 

[xwalker]

That is the only way to do it.

A restructure or extension should be out of the picture.

If they're going to keep him, then a restructure is not a big deal. His salary will be guaranteed as of game 1 anyway. The restructure only involves converting this year's salary to a bonus.

I still expect a combo pay cut and restructure.

 

[Nightman]

If they're going to keep him, then a restructure is not a big deal. His salary will be guaranteed as of game 1 anyway. The restructure only involves converting this year's salary to a bonus.

I still expect a combo pay cut and restructure.

They didn't restructure him last year or this year when they were looking for cap space.

A restructure with a pay cut is still a pay cut.

The only way Carr agrees to a pay cut is if he thinks DAL will cut him.

 

[xwalker]

So his remaining salary is $17.1 million. You want to guarantee him half of that over the two years remaining on his deal?

To do that Dallas also has to give him at least the veteran minimum for base salary, so we're looking at paying him more than $5 million a year both of those years (with essentially $4.5 million guaranteed each year).

His cap hit would be $9.75 million each of those years (counting his signing bonus and restructure bonus), instead of $12.7 million this year and $13.6 in 2016.

Do you find $9.75 million to be palatable, with Dallas taking a $9 million hit if it cuts Carr next year (or $4.5 for two years after June 1 ... just like this year)?

If you're talking about cutting his 2015 salary in half and offering him that guaranteed, I don't see Carr's incentive to take it at this point. The only reason to take the $4 million guaranteed is if Dallas says it will cut him otherwise because he'll be guaranteed twice that if he's on the roster the first week. Maybe the Cowboys are saying that privately, but they certainly are not saying it publicly.

This year's salary will be guaranteed as of game 1 anyway.

The negotiation would likely involve a guarantee of some of next year's salary in exchange for a pay cut in both 2015 and 2016. For example, give him a pay cut to 4M in 2015 and 4M in 2016 but make it all guaranteed.

His leverage is all based on what he thinks other teams would pay. There are a lot of average CBs getting paid more than 4M per.

 

[xwalker]

They didn't restructure him last year or this year when they were looking for cap space.

A restructure with a pay cut is still a pay cut.

The only way Carr agrees to a pay cut is if he thinks DAL will cut him.

My point if that a restructure is not a big deal. They would likely be pushing money forward if Dez signs a contract by having a lower 1st year cap hit. If Dez stays franchised and they push some money forward on Carr's contract, it's not a big deal. If they don't use the extra space, then it's a break-even proposition when that space is forwarded to next season.

If they want him to take a pay cut, they obviously have to tell Carr that they will indeed cut him if he does not take a pay cut. He should believe that they would based on them drafting a CB with their 1st round pick.

If he believes them, then his decision is just based on what he thinks other teams would offer.

At this point they can wait right up until the end of training camp to make a decision. If Jones looks great and guys like Corey White and Patmon look really good, then it might be worth it to them to actually cut Carr.

The risk is that he could get hurt in training camp and they would have to pay an injury settlement based on his current 8M salary, but that is a risk for any player with a big contract.

 

[Wood]

He ain't doing it... he knows he is being overpaid. He also know he won't even get 6mil ever again, he is cashing in.

Can't say I blame him

I can blame him....all day long. That's my right as financially supporting fan (if your watching their games or checking their scores online you are financially supporting them).

 

[gimmesix]

This year's salary will be guaranteed as of game 1 anyway.

The negotiation would likely involve a guarantee of some of next year's salary in exchange for a pay cut in both 2015 and 2016. For example, give him a pay cut to 4M in 2015 and 4M in 2016 but make it all guaranteed.

His leverage is all based on what he thinks other teams would pay. There are a lot of average CBs getting paid more than 4M per.

That's the way I'm leaning, except I think it will be more than $4 million per year because he could just hold fast and make that this year.

I think Carr will take a pay cut if Dallas agrees to guarantee him more than the $8 million base pay he'll receive because that means he knows he'll essentially get paid next year even if Dallas were to cut him after this season.

He's scheduled to make $9 million in base pay next year, so offering him $10 million guaranteed over the next two seasons would be a cap savings of $7 million for Dallas and might be something palatable to Carr.

It wouldn't get his pay down to where fans want it to be, but recouping $7 million would actually be a nice sum for Dallas. It would save the Cowboys $3 million this year and $4 million next year over what they are supposed to pay Carr.

 

[gimmesix]

It is. He has a contract that pays him 8m this year and 9m next year. Unless DAL is offering more money there is no reason to answer the phone.

No, what Dallas has to do is guarantee him more money than he is supposed to make this year. You pick up the phone because even with the Cowboys saying you are going to be on the team this year, there is no guarantee you are going to see any of that $9 million next year.

I'm not necessarily a fan of doing that because it creates more guaranteed money, but it is the only way for both the team and Carr to come out winners. He knows he's getting $8 million in base pay this year with Jones saying he's going to be on the team, so he has no incentive to reduce that sum. His incentive to reduce his base pay next year is part of it being guaranteed to him now or paid to him now as bonus.

Fans seem to be taking a now view of his contract while it appears with what Jones is saying that Dallas might be looking at both years remaining on his deal and trying to figure out how to bring the total down. Even if he only agreed to a $12 million guarantee, that would shave $5 million off his overall deal, which is still a nice cap savings.

It's not a restructure because that would just be moving all the money he's making around and it's not an extension because no years are added, it's a reduction in pay that creates pluses for both parties.