Jerry Jones, The GM, Suddenly Has Changed?

CaptainMorgan

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Joey Galloway and Roy Williams.

These two horrible horrible trades that set the franchise back for years. The horrible drafting years in the early - mid 2000's. The unthinkable contracts to guys like Marion Barber. Not to mention the gaggle of head coaches and quarterbacks after Aikman.

I think we are seeing less Jerry Jones these days hence the improvement. He is a poor GM and a great owner. He is indefensible as a GM.
 

jobberone

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Joey Galloway and Roy Williams.

These two horrible horrible trades that set the franchise back for years. The horrible drafting years in the early - mid 2000's. The unthinkable contracts to guys like Marion Barber. Not to mention the gaggle of head coaches and quarterbacks after Aikman.

I think we are seeing less Jerry Jones these days hence the improvement. He is a poor GM and a great owner. He is indefensible as a GM.

Jerry was horrible for awhile. Ask people how much heck I used to raise about the man. He's gotten better over time although the Roy Williams trade was mind blowingly bad. The trade up for Dez turned out great. It's a shame he took so long to get out of his own way but he's shown me (lately) he's learned. You have to consider Garrett in some measure responsible for that. There's more to it obviously than two men.
 

jobberone

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If you guys are going to continue to get personal then the thread will either be moved or closed.
 

Hoods

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uhhhh...No...It was not over ordering pizza or any other hypothetical scenario. This was not a dez situation on the sidelines.

I can understand people wanting to play devil's advocate or just for a good old argument make up something that could have happened for arguments sake but that is NOT what happened during that moment in the draft. People need to accept that it was a heated exchange during that draft and people were not happy and quit trying to play like it could have been something else when it has already been reported after.

If the reports never came out later than you could still make that argument (as weak as it is), but they did so No...that was not what was going on.

The only person making up what happened is you. We concede it was a "heated exchange during that draft" but there is no way for us to know what that exchange was about, like you claim to know.
 

Idgit

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Whaaat????

Why so tiny?

"That's what she said!"

Seriously. My wife was reading over my shoulder and she's like, why is that text so tiny? I said it's a walk-softly-big-stick thing.

But to reiterate what jobber said....touchy subject. Lots of personalities involved. This is us trying to have nice things. It's a good season, and the subject of whether it's happening in spite of Jerry, because of him, or whether he's blamed unfairly for a lot of things and this is more evidence that he's never been treated fairly ought to be a good one and fair game. We've just got to have the discussion in that context and not let it be about silly internet blood feuds.

I'm really hoping for the former. So far, I'm relieved to see that it hasn't really deteriorated to the latter. We're five pages in. That's got to be some sort of record on this topic and with all these personalities, right? Perhaps it's a Christmas miracle.
 

Bluestang

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I have never considered Garrett to be a master manipulator. A politician of the first order. But I may have to rethink this guy now.

Let's see how this season plays out. If he can get to the NFCC game and beyond, I may have to write a mea culpa thread.

But the real proof in this pudding will be how the team can piece together a defense and still maintain the offensive production. If the redheaded one can forge a pass rush which makes everything behind it successful, then the only two questions would be who is the running back and is Romo healthy.

My joy in celebrating a Championship would not be diminished one iota by having to say I was completely wrong about Garrett. Fact is I am hoping for the chance to voice me misjudgment of the guy.

Your first post was spot on. Great post and it's exactly the view of Jerry that I have.

You have to at least give credit to JG for getting this team ready to play. I never doubted what kind of team JG ennvisioned when he first was named HC because I as you can see my signature...that was a direct quote from red head himself. However, show me a HC that doesn't want his football team to be physical and win games...

But at the same time you have to lose a little respect for JG because "his accomplishments" with the team are being portrayed as Jerry's own publicly all the time. When your boss is constantly telling everyone in the media that you are in training, and is deciding who will call your offensive system, who will be your defensive coordinators, and always at the forefront of the team spilling the beans before you get the chance to....it just makes you go hmmm...

Think back on the Fredbeard draft day, was JG the guy that was at the forefront of the argument, standing up on the table trying to convince everyone they should take player x or player y?

Or was he the guy just sitting there, not saying a word, while others made the decision?

They say that actions speak louder than words.

JG's message resonates with the players and they are playing good football this season. Next year things go could very different but I hope we continue this upward trend. I don't think JG is a bad guy at all but he was underqualified to be a HC but the Jones knew that and they felt that they could mold him the way they saw fit.

So from what have you seen, is JG the guy that is standing up to the Jones when they are about to make a bad decision or is he just sitting there while the "big boys" do the talking?

And don't get me started on the defense, because many people on here voiced their opinions on improving the talent within the trenches but it only took the Jones 3 freakin years and an aging QB to ask for help to understand what needed to be done.
 

Eskimo

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Honestly the rebuilding of the OL is a mystery to me, Was that Garrett's vision, was that Jerry's or just an organizational plan, maybe they all realized since they are paying Romo alot of money they needed to protect him better...who knows. make no mistake Garrett was and still is a puppet coach. and if you sit here and tell me Garrett was very patient with Jerry, in trying to get his ways, he better be careful cause his job was hanging in the balance...... the miracle of this season saved him jmo.

From the moment Garrett took over he has talked about wanting to play balanced and physical football. The OL is what sets the stage for that. We haven't really had a physical OL since the 2007 season. That OL was good but it was also getting old and it didn't age well and was really expensive All those guys except Kosier were amongst the top paid in the league at the time. It also wasn't really re-invested in sufficiently or effectively and it all really began to fall apart in 2009. From 2009-2012 we could not run the ball with any kind of physicality at all - it was all misdirection and trickery which is why we couldn't run in short yardage or the goal-line where those deceptions are less effective. The start of 2013 was more of the same before around mid-season where the physical running game really started to gain some traction and then it really took off this year. This was the plan all along but between the refusal to go into full rebuild, the dead money and the lack of cap space it took a long, long time to fix. But the key point here is this was no quick fix and didn't involve some incredible degree of luck. This was a visionary rebuild of what we are supposed to look like on the offensive side of the ball.

I think we are about 2 players away from totally transforming the defense and those 2 players are both DEs. I don't know if D-Law will be one of those 2 but that TC injury really stunted his development this year. It will be interesting to see how we go about fixing that side of the ball while maintaining the offensive side. It will be a challenge.
 

DanteEXT

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These stories need to stop.

It took three plus years of JG's vision to finally materialize?

Meanwhile Harbaugh and other more qualified HCs did it in their first year?

And to top it all off the owner/GM has repeatedly called JG a trainee and has all but taken credit for the entire thing?

@Risen Star is right again...absolutely pathetic.

Harbaugh took over a team that spent the last 10+ years drafting in the top 10. Had a pretty stacked roster when he got there. Dallas had a aging team with some talent when Garrett got the job. I really wouldn't call it that one a true apples to apples comparison.
 

Alexander

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From the moment Garrett took over he has talked about wanting to play balanced and physical football. The OL is what sets the stage for that. We haven't really had a physical OL since the 2007 season. That OL was good but it was also getting old and it didn't age well and was really expensive All those guys except Kosier were amongst the top paid in the league at the time. It also wasn't really re-invested in sufficiently or effectively and it all really began to fall apart in 2009. From 2009-2012 we could not run the ball with any kind of physicality at all - it was all misdirection and trickery which is why we couldn't run in short yardage or the goal-line where those deceptions are less effective. The start of 2013 was more of the same before around mid-season where the physical running game really started to gain some traction and then it really took off this year. This was the plan all along but between the refusal to go into full rebuild, the dead money and the lack of cap space it took a long, long time to fix. But the key point here is this was no quick fix and didn't involve some incredible degree of luck. This was a visionary rebuild of what we are supposed to look like on the offensive side of the ball.

I think we are about 2 players away from totally transforming the defense and those 2 players are both DEs. I don't know if D-Law will be one of those 2 but that TC injury really stunted his development this year. It will be interesting to see how we go about fixing that side of the ball while maintaining the offensive side. It will be a challenge.

A lot of creative effort here, but the facts are despite the idea of "balanced and physical football" it did not exist in a Dallas defense directly under Garrett's influence until this season.

Whether it was lack of trust, poor personnel decisions or whatever, that is the plain and simple fact.
 

Eskimo

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A lot of creative effort here, but the facts are despite the idea of "balanced and physical football" it did not exist in a Dallas defense directly under Garrett's influence until this season.

Whether it was lack of trust, poor personnel decisions or whatever, that is the plain and simple fact.

It didn't exist because it wasn't effective.

What's the point of trying to run physically if your OL can't do it? It just puts you in 3rd and long over and over again.

In all honesty, we really couldn't pass block very well at all either in 2011 or 2012. Romo took a hell of a beating in 2012 between the lack of a running game and poor pass blocking. 2012 was the year we flipped Smith and Free and both struggled horribly. We had to combine that with the Vikings reject at Center plus Bernardeau and Livings at OG.

You can call it whatever you want but no one was going to have any success with a power running game with those OLs.

We could have rebuilt it quicker but it would have required a complete dismantling of the roster from the end of the 2010 season. The high picks that the tank generated plus the cleared out cap space would have made the rebuild a lot quicker.
 

visionary

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There are some aspects of this thesis I might agree with. Other parts are more of an emotional slant which paints your belief in the things you say. I do that. It is not a shot. But mingling fact with emotion muddies the waters about fact.

1. You put a great deal of work in this, and it is to be commended. But once again you lead with (1.) your victimhood at the hands of others. I see no point in this posturing. It does not lend any credence to your POV. The sweating over a keyboard while trying to bring wisdom as I suffer the slings and arrows at the hands of others might be significant in a Shakespearean play...but on a football board...

It Doth Not.

2. Not certain whom you are speaking about when you suggest this will be more clear. Very few of the people who post here don't understand how the hierarchy works.

3. This is at the crux of your commentary. Jerry has been in charge since day one. You repeat this posit over and over in your work here. But your definition of in charge is linked to the word ratify, as in (4.) Ratify is an interesting word used in this piece. it means authorize - assume or affirm.

I suggest all owners ratify the plans by their GM's in one area only. They ratify the machinations in regard to cost. The GM comes, hat in hand, and says this is what it will cost to be a winner this year. There may be several options on the table. "We can get this free agent who we consider a 1 type for X amount. Or we can get this other free agent for X amount, but he is a 2 in our eyes." Ultimately it comes down to the owner making a decision on the price tag and not the individual players as if he is part of the talent evaluation.
For the owner is the one who runs the BUSINESS end and makes certain the team's books stay in the black and not red. That is the sum total of the ratification by the owner in most franchises.

Then came Jones.

He sees himself as one of the talent evaluators. While he sometimes is out voted - Manziel - he also has made (questionably) positive decisions - Haley (positive) and T.O. (not so much) - that fly in the face of the people who actually have a work history of talent evaluation.
Forgive me, but close to twenty plus years hanging out with the Beatles didn't cause Mal Evans to write hit songs.

Jerry sits aloft like Solomon, passing his brand of judgment on all football decisions. His love of camera and microphone make it evident, especially when he uses the We phrase in what normally falls under the coach's purview.

So while technically correct that all owners have a say, there is a difference in what Jerry does, and even Snyder to a lesser degree, than all the other owners. To say Jerry is doing the same thing as all the other owners, or more precisely that they are doing what Jerry does, is a very broad brush definition. Especially when Jerry is at the spearhead of interviews and draft day war rooms, entrenching himself in all things related to the day-to-day football decisions - note I did not say financial here, because while he surely has a hand in that, his power leaks into areas other owners do not..

Jerry is an ago-centric individual who wants credit in a realm he has always admired. I forget the exact quote, but he made a comment near the beginning of his time as the owner here that he always wanted to own a team. Not the Cowboys, but an NFL team. I think he went on further to suggest he'd give up all his success to do so.

This is about the Jerry legacy and him getting credit he thought he was due when the team won championships. No one really thought Jerry had an inkling to do with those seasons until Jimmy left. And what most sticks in his craw is the fact most people believe it was Jimmy's team that won in 1995 after Jimmy left.

And here is the lynchpin of that thinking.

Why would Jerry storm off in a huff and make the comment to a reporter after being snubbed by Jimmy and his staff that "any one of five-hundred coaches could win with that team." He was probably somewhat right.

But if Jerry actually had a hand as you suggest, that phrase would have been - Any one of five-hundred coaches could have won with the team WE built. - - Or "I built."

Yet he didn't say that. In a moment of fury he was trying to diminish the actions of Jimmy Johnson. The developer, the mastermind, the builder...The Arhictect. However, as his anger bubbled over, he never gave himself credit for anything in that statement. He merely lashed out at the guy who deserved all the credit because of Jerry's jealousy at not being included in the post success toast with Cool and the Gang.

At that moment when the coaching staff snubbed him, he was the ultimate outsider, and it became clear he would never be taken seriously by real football people, or included in the accolades as a modeler of this franchise.

While this is conjecture, one might make the argument Jerry purposely said the five-hundred coaches comment to run Jimmy off.

One more point here. Do you remember what Jerry did when the Switzer led team won it all? Standing on the stage, Barry held the trophy and screamed in his incoherent, maniacal way, "We did it baby. We did it our way."

What did Jerry do then?

He reached over and took the trophy from Barry Switzer and handed it to the players That said volumes about "No coach will ever be first in this franchise or the glory days as long as I have air in my lungs." The psychology behind his five-hundred coaches and his taking the trophy from Switzer set the table for all coaches after. Including Parcells.

While conjecture, one might make the leap Jerry got T.O. to tweak Parcells nose enough to run him off after Parcells came and reorganized the team into something at the level of the NFL.

Since the day he left, Jerry has been chasing the ghost of Jimmy Johnson. He postured himself as the titular head of this franchise and goes to any length to get the credit. His "We taught Garret how to be a head coach," says so very much about the mental aspects of Jones and this team. And is the third piece of the puzzle into the mind of Jerry and how he now connects with his head coach.

There will never be a day the head coach, or any coach or scout or front office personnel will stand between him and the credit.

Jones cannot coach a team. Period. So any teaching he did is in his mind alone. But this statement is of the same stripe as the five-hundred coaches comment. It puts the focus back on Jerry.

There are a group of people who do evaluations with this team. They all assemble their contributions for the sanctioning of the people above them.

Ultimately, and in most cases I would assume, Jerry chooses which way they will go.

Like an entire special teams draft.

But the psychology of those three comments/action - five hundred coaches, taking the trophy from Switzer, we taught Garret how to be a head coach - reveal the ego of Jerry, and his real intent by his being involved more than other owners.

Most of what you said above is true. But if you leave out the aspects which paint Jerry as a self-centered narcissist, bent on being the focal point of this franchise over all others, then the truth about this team is obscured.

Great post
 

Irving Cowboy

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Alexander

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It didn't exist because it wasn't effective.

What's the point of trying to run physically if your OL can't do it? It just puts you in 3rd and long over and over again.

Great point if you are listening in fantasy land. We were good enough to run the ball like we are now late last season. Yet, Garrett chose not to do so. The evidence is plain and simple.
In all honesty, we really couldn't pass block very well at all either in 2011 or 2012. Romo took a hell of a beating in 2012 between the lack of a running game and poor pass blocking. 2012 was the year we flipped Smith and Free and both struggled horribly. We had to combine that with the Vikings reject at Center plus Bernardeau and Livings at OG.

So the question becomes, if this were some grand process that took this long to unfold, why did we spend good money on two poor OL in Livings and Bernadeau? Was it because we valued CBs more? What does that say about Garrett's influence about getting this "balanced and physical offense"?

At any rate, those two free agent signings were horrible attempts at doing what supposedly was the design.

And BTW, the center was supposed to be Costa, not Cook. I can find you a ton of quotes that illustrate what our GM or Owner or whatever you decide he is to make it convenient to spell out what the plan was before Frederick came aboard.

You can call it whatever you want but no one was going to have any success with a power running game with those OLs.

We could have rebuilt it quicker but it would have required a complete dismantling of the roster from the end of the 2010 season. The high picks that the tank generated plus the cleared out cap space would have made the rebuild a lot quicker.

And all this says is that, over time, there was a gradual realization that we needed to take the OL seriously and in an honest fashion.

It pretty much peaked this offseason. It got better last year with Frederick and Waters, then there was still a lack of trust to run, even when it was working.

It was not some full speed ahead philosophy that just took time. If it was, it was a broken process.

I am glad the "process" is working now, but not going to pretend we meant to do this.

There is nothing wrong with taking luck and circumstance and being good with that.
 

KingintheNorth

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It's really simple....

The things that worked out are examples of Jerry's brilliance and Garrett's diligence.

The things that didn't work out are just bad luck and happens to every other franchise.

Basic stuff here guys. Go Cowboys!
 
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Mansta54

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[quot="theogt, post: 5880687, member: 4954"]I don't buy it. Jason didn't even get to decide who calls plays. Jerry and Stephen have talked about "training" Garrett. All of this may be true but it's not how the Joneses think it works. I've watched the war room every year and Garrett always looks like he's just along for the ride.[/quote]

This Is sooooo incorrect, JG has a strong hold on this team.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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The only person making up what happened is you. We concede it was a "heated exchan

ge during that draft" but there is no way for us to know what that exchange was about, like you claim to know.

Guess I am not the only one making it up.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...an-do-to-avoid-2013-s-draft-day-confusion.ece
 

jobberone

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You're right. Let's go with what Parcells said...
“Jerry doesn’t have a football philosophy, but I like what he does. He tries to get all the information he can. He’s not a talent evaluator. Now, some days he thinks he is. Some days I think I’m an oilman, but I’m not. He’s an oilman.”

Nothing to argue with here but the overall acquisition of talent is not as simple as 'No, Jerry, No'.

Nice to see you around. Have a good Christmas?
 

Alexander

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This Is sooooo incorrect, JG has a strong hold on this team.

This year, this team? I have little doubt he does.

He deserves to get an extension and build off of this.

But I am not going to pretend that this is the result of some sort of a five year plan that is just suddenly coming together.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging the breaks.

If Jimmy Johnson had his way, Emmitt Smith would not have been a Cowboy. We inherited Irvin, Norton, Tuinei, Gogan, Hennings, Martin and others.

I will admit, this is the best "team" in the last decade and a half.

If that is Garrett's doing, great. He deserves whatever comes his way to build a no-nonsense team devoid of egos in the culture that exists in Dallas.

But teams are not built over time any more. They are almost built year to year.
 
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