Jerry Jones, The GM, Suddenly Has Changed?

Tawney88

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If you don't think Jerry has been the main issue with this team you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

As it has been said by a number of fans in this thread, time will tell. Jerry changing is a matter of opinion that can't be verified without more time and evidence.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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I don't care if people have different OPINIONS on here.

Just keep the banter within the guidelines.

That means if someone get's personal with the name calling and other personal insults..>Report it.

That does NOT mean that you should report it if someone is within the guidelines and you just don't like something they said because it does not mesh with your opinion.

If some of you can not control yourself, it might be better if you just walk away.

Friendly advice...
 

LucaBrasi

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I'm the first to admit I was dead wrong about the 2014 cowboys. To me, the main reason, the sole reason, this franchise is 1 of only 3 (3!) teams to not even advance to the NFC Championship game the past 18 years, is the incompetence of the head honcho i.e. final decision maker, the owner, president and GM.

My expectations of this franchise are much loftier than 11 wins, an occasional run at contender status, and being "entertained" as the GM once famously stated should satisfy me. I grew up with Schramm, Landry, Staubach, etc., Johnson (JJ gets credit for that hire for sure),The triplets, continued that championship tradition.

11 wins this far, 3 division titles in 16 years, 8 winning seasons in the last 18 years, that sole playoff win isn't really making me change my opinion of his football acumen. But that's just me.
 

Tawney88

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I'm the first to admit I was dead wrong about the 2014 cowboys. To me, the main reason, the sole reason, this franchise is 1 of only 3 (3!) teams to not even advance to the NFC Championship game the past 18 years, is the incompetence of the head honcho i.e. final decision maker, the owner, president and GM.

My expectations of this franchise are much loftier than 11 wins, an occasional run at contender status, and being "entertained" as the GM once famously stated should satisfy me. I grew up with Schramm, Landry, Staubach, etc., Johnson (JJ gets credit for that hire for sure),The triplets, continued that championship tradition.

11 wins this far, 3 division titles in 16 years, 8 winning seasons in the last 18 years, that sole playoff win isn't really making me change my opinion of his football acumen. But that's just me.

Great post
 

Irving Cowboy

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Just remember some of these "Jerry the Great knew what he was doing all along" posts sound strikingly familiar with what was being thrown around here on this board back in 2007.
 

LandryFan

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I don't know if smarter is the right word I would use, although I do think he is smart.

I think the better description, as you touched on, is he does not let his ego get in the way.

I don't think he likes when jones goes out and says things like ....We put so much time in training him. I don't think anyone would like to hear that kind of thing from a boss, true or not, being said in public...but he can put his ego to the side and move and to do what he feels is the best for the team.

If Jones said something like that about Jimmy or Bill they would not take to kindly to it, frankly I don't think he would say something like that because if Jerry is honest with himself he knows he learned more from those two than he ever taught them but that is another story.

I just think he is a smarter manager of JJ than they were. He has been able to get what he needs (still a work in progress) without making JJ feel like he has to "walk on eggshells" around VR. I certainly could be wrong, but it didn't seem that Jimmy and Big Bill weren't willing to be tactful when dealing with JJ, whereas Garrett is. Garrett will be a well paid long time coach whereas BP and JJ were short tetm. That's what I meant by being smarter.
 

TrailBlazer

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Some of this is true. Most is a warped perception of reality to fit ones agenda.

McClay doesn't work for ciskowski. McClay has more say in personnel than JG. Much more. JG just coaches the team and let's McClay know what he's looking for in offensive players. That's the end of it. Him and McClay amd ciskowski also influence JJ to make smarter football decisions.

The GM 's have the final say on most teams because a lot of owners don't know football. THAT IS WHY THEY HIRE FOOTBALL GUYS. Jerry is finally listening to football guys. Not just flying off the handle and drafting splash players. Jerry has changed in recent years, reporters have said as much. Just look at draft history. He is listening to McClay. The guy isn't moving up for no reason.
 
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rcaldw

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I'm just glad that the portion of this forum that always complains about Garrett isn't in charge. I'm glad that Garrett will sign an extension after this season. I'm glad Jerry was smart enough to keep him on board, and to listen to him. I'm glad Garrett has done such a good job. I'm glad that a whole host of you will be miserable for a very long time. After some of the posts I read in here, it makes me very, very glad. :)
 

TwoDeep3

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1. Well, with the guys who can't stand my passion for the Cowboys anyway.
2. make it clearer how talent evaluation works.


3. Jerry Jones is and always has been the "Final Say" on all things personnel for the Dallas Cowboys since he took over the team in 1989.
4. Do you honestly think the owners did not ratify those moves?

There are some aspects of this thesis I might agree with. Other parts are more of an emotional slant which paints your belief in the things you say. I do that. It is not a shot. But mingling fact with emotion muddies the waters about fact.

1. You put a great deal of work in this, and it is to be commended. But once again you lead with (1.) your victimhood at the hands of others. I see no point in this posturing. It does not lend any credence to your POV. The sweating over a keyboard while trying to bring wisdom as I suffer the slings and arrows at the hands of others might be significant in a Shakespearean play...but on a football board...

It Doth Not.

2. Not certain whom you are speaking about when you suggest this will be more clear. Very few of the people who post here don't understand how the hierarchy works.

3. This is at the crux of your commentary. Jerry has been in charge since day one. You repeat this posit over and over in your work here. But your definition of in charge is linked to the word ratify, as in (4.) Ratify is an interesting word used in this piece. it means authorize - assume or affirm.

I suggest all owners ratify the plans by their GM's in one area only. They ratify the machinations in regard to cost. The GM comes, hat in hand, and says this is what it will cost to be a winner this year. There may be several options on the table. "We can get this free agent who we consider a 1 type for X amount. Or we can get this other free agent for X amount, but he is a 2 in our eyes." Ultimately it comes down to the owner making a decision on the price tag and not the individual players as if he is part of the talent evaluation.
For the owner is the one who runs the BUSINESS end and makes certain the team's books stay in the black and not red. That is the sum total of the ratification by the owner in most franchises.

Then came Jones.

He sees himself as one of the talent evaluators. While he sometimes is out voted - Manziel - he also has made (questionably) positive decisions - Haley (positive) and T.O. (not so much) - that fly in the face of the people who actually have a work history of talent evaluation.

Forgive me, but close to twenty plus years hanging out with the Beatles didn't cause Mal Evans to write hit songs.


Jerry sits aloft like Solomon, passing his brand of judgment on all football decisions. His love of camera and microphone make it evident, especially when he uses the We phrase in what normally falls under the coach's purview.

So while technically correct that all owners have a say, there is a difference in what Jerry does, and even Snyder to a lesser degree, than all the other owners. To say Jerry is doing the same thing as all the other owners, or more precisely that they are doing what Jerry does, is a very broad brush definition. Especially when Jerry is at the spearhead of interviews and draft day war rooms, entrenching himself in all things related to the day-to-day football decisions - note I did not say financial here, because while he surely has a hand in that, his power leaks into areas other owners do not..

Jerry is an ago-centric individual who wants credit in a realm he has always admired. I forget the exact quote, but he made a comment near the beginning of his time as the owner here that he always wanted to own a team. Not the Cowboys, but an NFL team. I think he went on further to suggest he'd give up all his success to do so.

This is about the Jerry legacy and him getting credit he thought he was due when the team won championships. No one really thought Jerry had an inkling to do with those seasons until Jimmy left. And what most sticks in his craw is the fact most people believe it was Jimmy's team that won in 1995 after Jimmy left.

And here is the lynchpin of that thinking.

Why would Jerry storm off in a huff and make the comment to a reporter after being snubbed by Jimmy and his staff that "any one of five-hundred coaches could win with that team." He was probably somewhat right.

But if Jerry actually had a hand as you suggest, that phrase would have been - Any one of five-hundred coaches could have won with the team WE built. - - Or "I built."

Yet he didn't say that. In a moment of fury he was trying to diminish the actions of Jimmy Johnson. The developer, the mastermind, the builder...The Arhictect. However, as his anger bubbled over, he never gave himself credit for anything in that statement. He merely lashed out at the guy who deserved all the credit because of Jerry's jealousy at not being included in the post success toast with Cool and the Gang.

At that moment when the coaching staff snubbed him, he was the ultimate outsider, and it became clear he would never be taken seriously by real football people, or included in the accolades as a modeler of this franchise.

While this is conjecture, one might make the argument Jerry purposely said the five-hundred coaches comment to run Jimmy off.

One more point here. Do you remember what Jerry did when the Switzer led team won it all? Standing on the stage, Barry held the trophy and screamed in his incoherent, maniacal way, "We did it baby. We did it our way."

What did Jerry do then?

He reached over and took the trophy from Barry Switzer and handed it to the players That said volumes about "No coach will ever be first in this franchise or the glory days as long as I have air in my lungs." The psychology behind his five-hundred coaches and his taking the trophy from Switzer set the table for all coaches after. Including Parcells.

While conjecture, one might make the leap Jerry got T.O. to tweak Parcells nose enough to run him off after Parcells came and reorganized the team into something at the level of the NFL.

Since the day he left, Jerry has been chasing the ghost of Jimmy Johnson. He postured himself as the titular head of this franchise and goes to any length to get the credit. His "We taught Garret how to be a head coach," says so very much about the mental aspects of Jones and this team. And is the third piece of the puzzle into the mind of Jerry and how he now connects with his head coach.

There will never be a day the head coach, or any coach or scout or front office personnel will stand between him and the credit.

Jones cannot coach a team. Period. So any teaching he did is in his mind alone. But this statement is of the same stripe as the five-hundred coaches comment. It puts the focus back on Jerry.

There are a group of people who do evaluations with this team. They all assemble their contributions for the sanctioning of the people above them.

Ultimately, and in most cases I would assume, Jerry chooses which way they will go.

Like an entire special teams draft.

But the psychology of those three comments/action - five hundred coaches, taking the trophy from Switzer, we taught Garret how to be a head coach - reveal the ego of Jerry, and his real intent by his being involved more than other owners.

Most of what you said above is true. But if you leave out the aspects which paint Jerry as a self-centered narcissist, bent on being the focal point of this franchise over all others, then the truth about this team is obscured.
 

rcaldw

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I'm with Hos on this a lot more than the "Garrett is a puppet" delusions, but I agree with Two Deep's take. Jerry is not like other owners, other owners are not like Jerry. Jerry has not operated with anyone else the way he did Jimmy. That's just a fact. He knows it. Jimmy knows it. Probably the closest he got to it was Parcells.

I think the genius of Garrett is that he gets what HE WANTS while letting Jerry play football guy. That's why, if you want to win, you better be grateful Garrett is still here. It takes a unique skill set to pull it off.
 

TwoDeep3

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I'm with Hos on this a lot more than the "Garrett is a puppet" delusions, but I agree with Two Deep's take. Jerry is not like other owners, other owners are not like Jerry. Jerry has not operated with anyone else the way he did Jimmy. That's just a fact. He knows it. Jimmy knows it. Probably the closest he got to it was Parcells.

I think the genius of Garrett is that he gets what HE WANTS while letting Jerry play football guy. That's why, if you want to win, you better be grateful Garrett is still here. It takes a unique skill set to pull it off.

I have never considered Garrett to be a master manipulator. A politician of the first order. But I may have to rethink this guy now.

Let's see how this season plays out. If he can get to the NFCC game and beyond, I may have to write a mea culpa thread.

But the real proof in this pudding will be how the team can piece together a defense and still maintain the offensive production. If the redheaded one can forge a pass rush which makes everything behind it successful, then the only two questions would be who is the running back and is Romo healthy.

My joy in celebrating a Championship would not be diminished one iota by having to say I was completely wrong about Garrett. Fact is I am hoping for the chance to voice me misjudgment of the guy.
 

CowboyChris

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I think the genius of Garrett is that he gets what HE WANTS while letting Jerry play football guy. That's why, if you want to win, you better be grateful Garrett is still here. It takes a unique skill set to pull it off.

Please explain further....He gets what he wants? I still dont believe Garrett wanted Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Callahan calling plays, trade down for Frederick, trade up for Claiborne.
 

Eskimo

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Please explain further....He gets what he wants? I still dont believe Garrett wanted Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Callahan calling plays, trade down for Frederick, trade up for Claiborne.

I think what is implied is Garrett has gotten Jerry to adopt his vision of how the team should be built. This is something Jerry resisted for a long time with his vet-laden rosters, ST drafts, backup drafts, heavy emphasis on offensive skill positions.

The key though is that he doesn't jump up and down and try to take credit. He is happy to let Jerry have his time in the limelight, putting his foot in his mouth over and over again. It just rolls off Garrett's back whereas many others would probably take offense or demand that they get the credit when the team is a success.

Garrett doesn't seem to care too much about the media narrative. He just wants to build his team and is able to get Jerry to begrudgingly buy into that vision. I do not believe he has 100% control over Jerry but that was never going to happen and is part of the deal when working with Jerry. Exactly which decisions have been fully Garrett's or which ones involved some arm twisting from Jerry are things that only the deepest insiders will ever know. I do strongly suspect Rob Ryan was not a Garrett choice (pretty sure he wanted Capers) and I also doubt he really wanted Callahan to be the play caller. The guys he wants seem to be guys with whom he has some sort of a connection like Kiffin, Pope, Linehan, Marinelli and Bissaccia. But these are all conjectures, of course.
 

rcaldw

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Please explain further....He gets what he wants? I still dont believe Garrett wanted Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Callahan calling plays, trade down for Frederick, trade up for Claiborne.

My opinion is that he has the patience to "influence' Jerry. That means he gets what he wants slower at times, but once he can show Jerry that Jerry's way didn't work, and then pull it off the way he has this season, the more he will have his own way in the future. I think the offensive line is a great example of him getting his way. All the people who think that Jerry had a sudden epiphany about offensive linemen are just wrong. Garrett "influenced" the team in that direction.
 

rcaldw

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I think what is implied is Garrett has gotten Jerry to adopt his vision of how the team should be built. This is something Jerry resisted for a long time with his vet-laden rosters, ST drafts, backup drafts, heavy emphasis on offensive skill positions.

The key though is that he doesn't jump up and down and try to take credit. He is happy to let Jerry have his time in the limelight, putting his foot in his mouth over and over again. It just rolls off Garrett's back whereas many others would probably take offense or demand that they get the credit when the team is a success.

Garrett doesn't seem to care too much about the media narrative. He just wants to build his team and is able to get Jerry to begrudgingly buy into that vision. I do not believe he has 100% control over Jerry but that was never going to happen and is part of the deal when working with Jerry. Exactly which decisions have been fully Garrett's or which ones involved some arm twisting from Jerry are things that only the deepest insiders will ever know. I do strongly suspect Rob Ryan was not a Garrett choice (pretty sure he wanted Capers) and I also doubt he really wanted Callahan to be the play caller. The guys he wants seem to be guys with whom he has some sort of a connection like Kiffin, Pope, Linehan, Marinelli and Bissaccia. But these are all conjectures, of course.

This is perfectly stated.
 

CowboyChris

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My opinion is that he has the patience to "influence' Jerry. That means he gets what he wants slower at times, but once he can show Jerry that Jerry's way didn't work, and then pull it off the way he has this season, the more he will have his own way in the future. I think the offensive line is a great example of him getting his way. All the people who think that Jerry had a sudden epiphany about offensive linemen are just wrong. Garrett "influenced" the team in that direction.

Honestly the rebuilding of the OL is a mystery to me, Was that Garrett's vision, was that Jerry's or just an organizational plan, maybe they all realized since they are paying Romo alot of money they needed to protect him better...who knows. make no mistake Garrett was and still is a puppet coach. and if you sit here and tell me Garrett was very patient with Jerry, in trying to get his ways, he better be careful cause his job was hanging in the balance...... the miracle of this season saved him jmo.
 

TellerMorrow34

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As far as the OP goes I don't know if any of that is true or not but I personally don't care in the least.

All I care about is that the Dallas Cowboys win. I don't care how they do it. I don't care who gets the credit for it. I don't care who is blamed for not doing enough.

I don't go around worrying about rather or not I know more about how the inner workings of a sports franchise do or do not go.
 

Kaiser

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You know what I find really funny? For "20 years" (or maybe it is 18) the same gaggle of always negative guys have been telling everyone on this forum that Jerry Jones is the problem in Dallas, and that he will never change.

I always get a chuckle out of the hater meme about 20 years also. 20 years ago the team was 12-4 and went to the NFC Championship game. The following year they were 12-4 and won the Super Bowl. They went to the playoffs 9 times in those 20 years.

Over “the last twenty years” the Cowboys have a record of 181 – 154. If a winning record and 9 playoff appearances turns someone into an Internet Troll, its entirely about the poster and not the team.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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So you believe that "Jason gained more credibility with how other things worked out", and that he decided to hand over the playcalling duties to Callahan only to change his mind later makes it look like he lost that credibility, don't you think?

I think when Jason got the HC gig Jerry wanted him to call plays so Jason went ahead and did that even tho he prob thot it wasnt the best thing for him to be doing long term. It wasnt the time to draw a line in the sand with Jerry over that issue so he did it. As Jerry saw him in ALL of his HC duties he was prob more open to Jason giving up the play calling as Jason had proven himself in other areas and it gave him some more credibility.

As far as the Callahan situation that was never ideal and as the season played out it wasnt working out as they had hoped for so Jason tried to salvage what was left of the season and make a poor situation a little better to try to finish the season on a better note. And no, I dont see how that affected his credibility whatsoever.

I guess a major difference in viewpoint is I dont see Jason as a a puppet with Jerry pulling the strings. I see him as a HC, functioning as a HC, and making the decisions a HC makes. Some better than others.
 
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