JJT: Philadelphia's Success Puts Spotlight on Jason Garrett

[aria]

Forget one game.

Let's talk 7 seasons. Again, it would be a historical anomaly if Garrett suddenly morphed into an upper echelon head coach after 7 mediocre years in his current job. There isn't a SB winning coach in history that had as little success as Garrett did in his first 7 years except for Tom Landry............ and in Landry's case, he built a team from scratch.

I won’t argue to much on this one but one season I completely erase, Weeden and Cassel. There’s no scheming around that. Many of those 8-8 seasons are deceiving. IIRC there were 3 8-8 seasons and each one game down to beating a division rival in the last game of the season to get into the playoffs. Excusable? No but it shows how tough the NFCE was and those are 3 years we were one game away from making it to the playoffs. I don’t remember them all but I’m sure if we looked back there are plenty of dropped passes, possibly fumbles, int’s, etc that can’t all be blamed on coaching. Again, not excusable but not nearly as bad as it looks.

 

[aria]

This team looked like the best team in the league after that KC win. But KC also had just lost like 4-5 in a row as well.

But then like we always do under JG we folded the tent when adversity struck. 1-5 without Lee, 3-3 without Zeke and getting beat by 20 3 straight games. I mean the offense couldn't even function!

13-3 was awesome and unexpected, but again JG wet the bed and the team wasn't prepared to play. By the time we woke up and Dak brought us back it was too late. We should have blown that team out even with Rogers.

I'm sorry Aria, JG sucks!

The problem here is that even when he's made bad decisions in personnel, he's generally fielded some pretty talented teams over the years that didn't do squat. He had teams that had an elite QB on it in Romo and a stud defender in Ware and still won squat.

Personnel is a secondary issue here. The main issue is Jerry just sucks at hiring coaches. Garrett being the latest in a long line of gaffes.

PS - Hardy wasn't a splash deal to make Jerry relevant. It was a deal made because they knew they had nary a pass rusher on the roster and we willing to take the negative PR over it. I am not sure how one concludes taking on such a PR nightmare that brought nothing but scorn and disgust from everyone outside Dallas can be looked at as Jerry trying to stay relevant.

I’m out for awhile fellas. I’m literally worn out, haha. I know we don’t always see eye to eye but I truly appreciate the cordial disagreements and banter. Both of you make some great points and believe it or not, I’m not a JG homer. One more year of not making the playoffs and we can argue about who are new HC should be, lol.

I’m sure we’ll cross paths again very soon but I’m bowing out of this argument for now. I look forward to our next “engagement” Have a wonderful day, I wish next Sept were already here.

 

[Wolfpack]

Glad to see media folks writing these stories. Way beyond time to call out the ineptness of JG's coaching efforts in Dallas.

 

[Sydla]

I won’t argue to much on this one but one season I completely erase, Weeden and Cassel. There’s no scheming around that. Many of those 8-8 seasons are deceiving. IIRC there were 3 8-8 seasons and each one game down to beating a division rival in the last game of the season to get into the playoffs. Excusable? No but it shows how tough the NFCE was and those are 3 years we were one game away from making it to the playoffs. I don’t remember them all but I’m sure if we looked back there are plenty of dropped passes, possibly fumbles, int’s, etc that can’t all be blamed on coaching. Again, not excusable but not nearly as bad as it looks.

Yes, it's as bad as it looks. Every team can sit here and play that game if a ball bounces this way or that way things could be different. You can't sit there and apply that to just the Cowboys and say, "Gee, if the ball bounces this way, maybe we squeak out a win somewhere and make the playoffs one of those years we went 8-8 or 9-7!"

The problem with that logic is that maybe the ball bounces a certain way for Philly in 2013, for example, and that last game is actually meaningless as they have a two game lead?

In the end, he just hasn't been good enough. It's as simple as that and thinking that's going to change is just wishful thinking at this point.

 

[Aven8]

Yes, it's as bad as it looks. Every team can sit here and play that game if a ball bounces this way or that way things could be different. You can't sit there and apply that to just the Cowboys and say, "Gee, if the ball bounces this way, maybe we squeak out a win somewhere and make the playoffs one of those years we went 8-8 or 9-7!"

The problem with that logic is that maybe the ball bounces a certain way for Philly in 2013, for example, and that last game is actually meaningless as they have a two game lead?

In the end, he just hasn't been good enough. It's as simple as that and thinking that's going to change is just wishful thinking at this point.

We could be the Browns and arguing had we only taken Watson instead of Kizer!! Or Wentz, Goff, on and on............

 

[Idgit]

Pederson’s gone from bum to genius over the course of 4 months.

Amusing to say the least.

It's amazing how much better a coach gets overnight when his players get better.

We saw the same thing with Garrett when he went from clueless idiot at 4-12 to NFL Coach of the Year at 13-3 by adding a couple of good players to the roster.

 

[windward]

Lol except our defense actually wasnt the reason we missed the playoffs this season, they held teams to 21 points or fewer TEN times this season. Yet everytime I point that out you give another excuse. We lost Tyron doe (Eagles lost their LT too), we had Zeke distraction doe lol

And we were 9-1 in those games.

Sounds like having a good defense helps you win games, like @Idgit said.

 

[Idgit]

Lol except our defense actually wasnt the reason we missed the playoffs this season, they held teams to 21 points or fewer TEN times this season. Yet everytime I point that out you give another excuse. We lost Tyron doe (Eagles lost their LT too), we had Zeke distraction doe lol

This season we had problems beyond the defense, yes. And the defense has been slowly trending in the right direction. We still gave up 35 points in back to back games to the Rams and Packers that probably kept us out of the postseason because we didn't have sufficient LB depth inside. The 27 we gave up to the Falcons wasn't as bad, but that's another game that hinged on Sean Lee's 2nd quarter injured hamstring. Remember the zone coverage breakdowns against Phillip Rives the next week? I do.

Other than the SEA and DEN games, we actually did ok in most of the games where the offense crapped the bed. And even v. DEN we gave up 42 ourselves.

 

[Sydla]

And we were 9-1 in those games.

Sounds like having a good defense helps you win games, like @Idgit said.

We averaged 16 points a game in our losses, including 7, 9, 6 and 12 points in our last four losses.

 

[Sydla]

It's amazing how much better a coach gets overnight when his players get better.

We saw the same thing with Garrett when he went from clueless idiot at 4-12 to NFL Coach of the Year at 13-3 by adding a couple of good players to the roster.

Amazing how the coach doesn't **** himself when he loses a few of his key players too.

 

[Idgit]

He needs elite defenders. And an elite defensive coordinator.

On some planet, that equals he is really a good head coach, honest.

When it turns out that both the finalists in the NFC title game, and the AFC title game, *all* had elite defenses, it doesn't sound so crazy. Or when you see the team that puts up 12+ games get eliminated in the playoffs, twice, because they can't defend Aaron Rodgers in a 4 minute offense, a light ought to go off for you.

I don't care if Jason Garrett is 'a really good coach' or not. All I care about is the easiest way to build a team that can advance. If we were losing these games because of the coaching staff, I'd want it changed. We're losing them because of bad-or-average defenses. Let's fix it finally and see what happens.

 

[Sydla]

When it turns out that both the finalists in the NFC title game, and the AFC title game, *all* had elite defenses, it doesn't sound so crazy. Or when you see the team that puts up 12+ games get eliminated in the playoffs, twice, because they can't defend Aaron Rodgers in a 4 minute offense, a light ought to go off for you.

I don't care if Jason Garrett is 'a really good coach' or not. All I care about is the easiest way to build a team that can advance. If we were losing these games because of the coaching staff, I'd want it changed. We're losing them because of bad-or-average defenses. Let's fix it finally and see what happens.

Yeah, I am not really big on wasting 2 more seasons as they build the defense to figure out what is pretty much obvious at this point........... Garrett isn't good enough.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

If only Garrett had some control over the defense. If only he had a job title that gave him some measure of team-wide control.

 

[Idgit]

For some strange reason, you think you have stumbled upon some deep dark secret that "defense wins championships".

Eventually a good team will win the SB and it comes from being fundamentally sound and especially proficient on one side of the football.

But it is not a tried and true reality that top defenses get you to the final round. It helps, but it is not consistent.

During Garrett's tenure, the final four has been composed of all top ten defenses using your points/defensive series only twice, including this past season.

2017 - Dallas was at 17.
2016 - NE (1), Atlanta (27), Pittsburgh (11), Green Bay (28). - Dallas (13) better than two teams.
2015 - Denver (1), Carolina (2), New England (9), Seattle (4) - Dallas (17)
2014 - New England (8), Seattle (2), Indianapolis (11), Green Bay (17) - Dallas (16) better than one team.
2013 - Seattle (1), Denver (19), San Francisco (3), New England (10) - Dallas (30)
2012 - Baltimore (11), San Francisco (3), New England (12), Atlanta (10) - Dallas (26)
2011 - Giants (24), New England (21), Baltimore (2), San Francisco (1) - Dallas (19)

Using your own criteria, Dallas actually has had a better defense twice. That just so happens that still was not good enough in 2014 and 2016, the two shining moments of the Cowboys franchise for the past twenty plus years.

About the only leg you have to stand on is that Garrett needs an even better defense than he has been getting. That is using your criteria that you chose.

Unlike teams that have made it with average or even poor defenses (again, your points per defensive series rule), he has never advanced beyond the divisional round. And that is part of the problem.

By saying he needs an elite defense, you are only illustrating exactly what the issue is.

He is not good enough.

Good post, btw, Alex. To be clear, the argument is just defensive points/series. It's passing effectiveness differential. I harp on the defensive points/series because offensively we're generally in the top-10, and in the top-5 in the seasons where we've been competitive recently (2014 and 2016).

But when you highlight who won the Superbowl each of the years you've cited, it paints a pretty clear picture. Nobody but the Giants have won it all with a defense as bad as our *best* unit during that span.

My whole argument is exactly that Jason Garrett needs an even better defense than he has been getting, yes.

For the record, the franchise also had good teams in 2007 and 2009, by the way. The record is bad enough. No need to make it look worse than it already is.

 

[Idgit]

And we were 9-1 in those games.

Sounds like having a good defense helps you win games, like @Idgit said.

Go figure.

 

[Idgit]

Yeah, I am not really big on wasting 2 more seasons as they build the defense to figure out what is pretty much obvious at this point........... Garrett isn't good enough.

You've made that pretty clear. I disagree, but then I also admit they've neglected seriously fixing the defense for years now. Last year was a step towards addressing the problem, but as you correctly point out in other threads, we did ourselves a disservice by completely whiffing in FA. We started to see it come on a bit defensively when the LBs were healthy and the secondary got a bit more experience, but it's not there yet.

 

[Jake]

Without that defense, Pederson’s season ends in a home loss to Atlanta.

With a defense, the Cowboys 2016 season doesn't end in a home loss to Green Bay.

But don't tell that to the posters who think defense doesn't matter.

 

[Idgit]

Amazing how the coach doesn't **** himself when he loses a few of his key players too.

This was a reference to Dallas in 2016, I take it? Where we replaced 2 QBs and a starting LG on the way to a top-2 offense in terms of production measure by point/offensive series? Or to some other team?

 

[Idgit]

With a defense, the Cowboys 2016 season doesn't end in a home loss to Green Bay.

But don't tell that to the posters who think defense doesn't matter.

Yep. Or 2014, for that matter. How many of us think we keep Rodgers out of the end zone needing a touchdown with ~4 minutes left if Dez's catch wasn't (shamefully) overturned? I don't.

 

[Jarv]

Without that defense, Pederson’s season ends in a home loss to Atlanta.

You're right, must still be Wade Phillips fault!