Jon Gruden on Connor Cook

[StarBoyz83]

I like cook. He's really accurate but seemed to have an awesome oline.

 

[cmoney23]

MSU fans how does Cook compare to Kirk Cousins coming out of college?

Not an MSU fan. A michigan fan however. And Cook. It's WAY better than cousins.

 

[Kareemovweet]

Weeden threw for 72 percent last year with us.

Did MSU throw deep, have receivers that drop balls, no backs who were good checkoffs?

Or was Cook bad?

I'm not a huge Cook fan but he was 35-5 or something close to that, and the thing about him was he did play in a pro style offense and did throw the ball down field a lot. He wasnt a dink and dunk guy and didnt throw much to the backs for his percentage to go up.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Well....here it is:
http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/
Connor Cook, Michigan State 50 MPH
Kellen Moore, Boise State 52 MPH

So...as much as K.Moore has been heavily described as having a "noodle arm", do we really want a complete dud in Cook? Moore was a winner, a gamer, a QB described as being able to read defenses and find a way to win but had very poor measurables at the combine. Connor is the complete opposite and possesses an even weaker arm. #NoToConnor2016

 

[AdamJT13]

58%, 58%, 58%.............. the completion percentages of Cook at MSU his last three years.

No thanks.

There's a difference between completion percentage and accuracy. The one thing about Cook's completion percentage is that he almost never threw passes behind the line of scrimmage or even 1-5 yards downfield. In a different offense, he easily could have been over 60% completions without being any more accurate -- the entire difference would have been in the length of passes thrown.

Greg Gabriel (an NFL scout for 20 years, including seven years under Bill Parcells, and a director of college scouting for nine years) broke down Cook in October and wrote this -- "He throws a tight ball and he has very good arm strength. He shows good but not great overall accuracy and ball placement. He is not what I would call a pinpoint passer, but he is way above the “enough” level. While he will force some throws, he is usually very careful and that leads to his low number of interceptions. ... When you compare his completion % to the spread QB’s, yes it is poor. But in those offenses the are designed to have a high completion percentage….a majority of their throws are at or near the line of scrimmage. The QB better complete 95% of those throws and they inflate real accuracy. MSU’s offense has many more downfield throws and by nature the completion will be much lower."

 

[Plankton]

There's a difference between completion percentage and accuracy. The one thing about Cook's completion percentage is that he almost never threw passes behind the line of scrimmage or even 1-5 yards downfield. In a different offense, he easily could have been over 60% completions without being any more accurate -- the entire difference would have been in the length of passes thrown.

Greg Gabriel (an NFL scout for 20 years, including seven years under Bill Parcells, and a director of college scouting for nine years) broke down Cook in October and wrote this -- "He throws a tight ball and he has very good arm strength. He shows good but not great overall accuracy and ball placement. He is not what I would call a pinpoint passer, but he is way above the “enough” level. While he will force some throws, he is usually very careful and that leads to his low number of interceptions. ... When you compare his completion % to the spread QB’s, yes it is poor. But in those offenses the are designed to have a high completion percentage….a majority of their throws are at or near the line of scrimmage. The QB better complete 95% of those throws and they inflate real accuracy. MSU’s offense has many more downfield throws and by nature the completion will be much lower."

It's one thing to compare to a spread guy completing 65% of their passes. It's another thing to never touch 60% as a completion percentage when playing in college. With tighter throwing windows, better athletes on the other side of the ball, and better, more complex pass rushes, there's no reason to think that this number will improve - especially when teams in the NFL are not spread offenses, but use some spread concepts on passing downs.

One thing I just checked that was interesting and noteworthy - the B1G 10 had 8 teams in the top 30 of pass efficiency defense, including four of the top 10 defenses, with the top 3 overall. He did face some good pass defenses.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Well....here it is:
http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/
Connor Cook, Michigan State 50 MPH
Kellen Moore, Boise State 52 MPH

So...as much as K.Moore has been heavily described as having a "noodle arm", do we really want a complete dud in Cook? Moore was a winner, a gamer, a QB described as being able to read defenses and find a way to win but had very poor measurables at the combine. Connor is the complete opposite and possesses an even weaker arm. #NoToConnor2016

I would ask what the criteria was in this. I haven't heard of them measuring their velocity before. Are they asking these guys to chuck the ball at a target say 20 yds away as they can? Are they measuring it just on random throws? THis has Joe Flacco just slightly better than noodle arm Moore....so I would want to know how this is done before I put any stock in it at all.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Interesting, it says Ourlads is the only one with these numbers.....so it seems like not a standard test. When weak armed Cody Kessler has the same number as Joe Flacco, it seriously brings the numbers into question.

 

[AdamJT13]

With tighter throwing windows, better athletes on the other side of the ball, and better, more complex pass rushes, there's no reason to think that this number will improve - especially when teams in the NFL are not spread offenses, but use some spread concepts on passing downs.

He was referring to the spread offenses in college, which inflates those quarterbacks' completion percentage by comparison, not spread offenses in the NFL. In the NFL, regardless of the style of offense, most of them use many more short passes than MSU's offense did. Even in our offense, which is often criticized for lack of screen passes, almost 20 percent of Romo's attempts are thrown behind the line of scrimmage, and about 67 percent are thrown less than 10 yards downfield. In the Commanders' offense, it's more than 70 percent. In the Giants' offense, it's more than 73 percent. And none of those teams use a "spread" offense.

Besides, many (if not most) quarterbacks' completion percentage increases from college to the NFL --

Brett Favre went from 52.4 percent in college to 62.0 percent in the NFL. Matt Ryan went from 59.9 percent to 64.3 percent. Matthew Stafford -- 57.1 to 60.9. Carson Palmer -- 59.1 to 62.7. Jay Cutler -- 57.2 to 62.0. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton and Brock Osweiler all have a higher NFL completion percentage than they had in college.

Put Cook in an NFL offense where 20 percent of his passes are thrown behind the line of scrimmage and 70 percent are less than 10 yards downfield, and it's highly likely that his completion percentage will be higher than it was in college.

 

[thehammer]

I guess im one of the few who like cook.

not the only one..have him #24 on my board

IMO the most accurate qb in this draft...if he played in a spread would likely have that 65% comp percentage. very few easy throws to rb's or screens to pad his stats. also below avg wr's didn't help.

 

[Gaede]

He was referring to the spread offenses in college, which inflates those quarterbacks' completion percentage by comparison, not spread offenses in the NFL. In the NFL, regardless of the style of offense, most of them use many more short passes than MSU's offense did. Even in our offense, which is often criticized for lack of screen passes, almost 20 percent of Romo's attempts are thrown behind the line of scrimmage, and about 67 percent are thrown less than 10 yards downfield. In the Commanders' offense, it's more than 70 percent. In the Giants' offense, it's more than 73 percent. And none of those teams use a "spread" offense.

Besides, many (if not most) quarterbacks' completion percentage increases from college to the NFL --

Brett Favre went from 52.4 percent in college to 62.0 percent in the NFL. Matt Ryan went from 59.9 percent to 64.3 percent. Matthew Stafford -- 57.1 to 60.9. Carson Palmer -- 59.1 to 62.7. Jay Cutler -- 57.2 to 62.0. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton and Brock Osweiler all have a higher NFL completion percentage than they had in college.

Put Cook in an NFL offense where 20 percent of his passes are thrown behind the line of scrimmage and 70 percent are less than 10 yards downfield, and it's highly likely that his completion percentage will be higher than it was in college.

Good info Adam.

 

[vaturkey]

The key word is "perhaps". Perhaps I might when the lottery next week. Perhaps I might somehow date a Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader. Perhaps Obama might figure out how to run for a third term. Perhaps covers a lot.

 

[thehammer]

There's a difference between completion percentage and accuracy. The one thing about Cook's completion percentage is that he almost never threw passes behind the line of scrimmage or even 1-5 yards downfield. In a different offense, he easily could have been over 60% completions without being any more accurate -- the entire difference would have been in the length of passes thrown.

Greg Gabriel (an NFL scout for 20 years, including seven years under Bill Parcells, and a director of college scouting for nine years) broke down Cook in October and wrote this -- "He throws a tight ball and he has very good arm strength. He shows good but not great overall accuracy and ball placement. He is not what I would call a pinpoint passer, but he is way above the “enough” level. While he will force some throws, he is usually very careful and that leads to his low number of interceptions. ... When you compare his completion % to the spread QB’s, yes it is poor. But in those offenses the are designed to have a high completion percentage….a majority of their throws are at or near the line of scrimmage. The QB better complete 95% of those throws and they inflate real accuracy. MSU’s offense has many more downfield throws and by nature the completion will be much lower."

no qb in this draft is more accurate downfield then Cook.. ever wonder why people become scouts? because they lacked the intelligence to find a real job...zero wife/zero family living in hotel 6's for a career. Trust me Gabriel isn't someone you should quote

 

[reddyuta]

no qb in this draft is more accurate downfield then Cook.. ever wonder why people become scouts? because they lacked the intelligence to find a real job...zero wife/zero family living in hotel 6's for a career. Trust me Gabriel isn't someone you should quote

wrong.I can post passing charts for Goff and Cook if you want,Cook is ridiculously inaccurate,his 0-10 yards passing percentage is even worse.I dont trust a QB who cant be relied upon for a simple dump off pass to his RB.

 

[AdamJT13]

I can post passing charts for Goff and Cook if you want.

Please do.

 

[reddyuta]

Please do.

 

[AdamJT13]

Although these numbers don't include every game or every pass, they show how rarely Cook threw short -- only 8.4 percent of his charted attempts were behind the line of scrimmage and a total of 51.5 percent were 10 yards or less. There is no offense in the NFL that throws downfield as much as Cook did at MSU or throws short as rarely as Cook did at MSU.

 

[reddyuta]

Although these numbers don't include every game or every pass, they show how rarely Cook threw short -- only 8.4 percent of his charted attempts were behind the line of scrimmage and a total of 51.5 percent were 10 yards or less. There is no offense in the NFL that throws downfield as much as Cook did at MSU or throws short as rarely as Cook did at MSU.

I understand that but i am looking for some accuracy from my future Franchise Qb and the only thing i see inconsistency.You can watch his whole game videos on draftbreawdown.I see who misses open guy and really easy throws all the time and he misses them even with proper mechanics with his feet set(which he also messes up a lot).

 

[thehammer]

I understand that but i am looking for some accuracy from my future Franchise Qb and the only thing i see inconsistency.You can watch his whole game videos on draftbreawdown.I see who misses open guy and really easy throws all the time and he misses them even with proper mechanics with his feet set(which he also messes up a lot).

pff has Cook the most accurate passer in this draft throwing into tight windows....like I and the other poster said very few short throws to pad his stats

what I see is a lot of tough throws to covered wr's...Cook is my #24 ranked player in the draft and Gruden had a reason for saying Cook might be the best qb. Think he sees what I see. I call Wentz an elite game manager on my draft site and he scares me more then Cook. What I don't like about Wentz is he isn't very accurate on the move and looks worse playing in tight/close games

 

[reddyuta]

pff has Cook the most accurate passer in this draft throwing into tight windows....like I and the other poster said very few short throws to pad his stats

what I see is a lot of tough throws to covered wr's...Cook is my #24 ranked player in the draft and Gruden had a reason for saying Cook might be the best qb. Think he sees what I see. I call Wentz an elite game manager on my draft site and he scares me more then Cook. What I don't like about Wentz is he isn't very accurate on the move and looks worse playing in tight/close games

I will give you that,he does make some tight throws but he misses some ridiculously routine ones all the time,he is just not accurate enough for me and i dont think its fixable.