Just a Thought On Romo

[silver]

I've already said that Romo's arm strength might be an issue, but if we look at the problems in the Niners game, arm strength is not the primary issue. Regardless of the quality of the pass to Harris, it's didn't cause the loss or cause any problem because it was caught by Harris.

Romo said that he was good physically but the problems were mental.

The pass to Dez was fine if there was no underneath defender. If the defender behind Dez was the one that Romo saw, then he would error on the side of under-throwing that pass. The problem was that he didn't see the underneath guy. It's obvious in the game footage and it correlates with Romo's comments about it.

His problem might be more related to mobility than to arm strenght. He tried to do his signature move vs Justin Smith and got sacked. He's going to have to adjust to being a pocket passer now and I'm not sure he can do that at this stage of his career. His ability to extend plays and use his quickness to buy time is what Romo magic was all about. I'm not sure he can pull a Tom Brady in his 12th year in the league.

 

[sureletsrace]

Aikman retired...after the Cowboys cut him.

The only way Romo retires is if they Cowboys cut him first.

If the player is cut, they keep all bonus money. The team's cap issues are unaffected if the player retires after he is cut.

I don't know. I personally think Romo is too devoted to the success of this team to be selfish enough to make the Cowboys cut him.

He seems like an incredibly stand up guy. Troy Aikman was too, but I never heard of him stopping on the side of the road to change someone's tire.

 

[xwalker]

The ancillary fallout is this.

Would Dez stay or go?

Would Free Agents come? And would they cost more coming to a team in shambles?

How many wasted years would we have with the offensive line being what it is before we had someone worth protecting?

Would Fred Bread and Martin force the tag to prevent the highest bidder on a team that wins?

Now factor in what it will take to rebuild the defense. One that I do not agree showed anything even close to not being bad in this last game.

How long until that side of the ball is productive?

This is more than Romo and Romo's money. That is merely the surface of this dilemma.

These waters are swift and deep.

If Romo can't play, then the Cowboys are going to have a top 10 pick and can draft a QB. With this offensive line and supporting offensive cast including Dez, a highly rated rookie QB has a good chance to succeed early. Most top 10 QBs go to teams with terrible offensives. That wouldn't be the case in this scenario.

In regards to Dez, if they make Romo a designated June 1st cut, they will have room to franchise Dez. The franchise tag might be cheaper than the salary that he wants because of the odd way the top 5 WR contracts fall. The top 2 are about 16M and might be the number that Dez wants; however, #3 is about 12M and #4 and #5 are lower. That puts the tag at significantly below the top 2 WR salaries.

The only way that doesn't work out is if Romo is good all season and then has a career ending setback near the end of the season (i.e. No Romo and No top 10 pick in 2015). This seems like an unlikely scenario.

 

[xwalker]

I don't know. I personally think Romo is too devoted to the success of this team to be selfish enough to make the Cowboys cut him.

He seems like an incredibly stand up guy. Troy Aikman was too, but I never heard of him stopping on the side of the road to change someone's tire.

Aikman forced the team to cut him even though he knew he was done.

Romo would be required to pay back tens of millions of dollars if he retired without being cut. That's not just forgoing future money, but actually having to write a check to the Cowboys to repay them. Nobody is going to do that.

 

[xwalker]

His problem might be more related to mobility than to arm strenght. He tried to do his signature move vs Justin Smith and got sacked. He's going to have to adjust to being a pocket passer now and I'm not sure he can do that at this stage of his career. His ability to extend plays and use his quickness to buy time is what Romo magic was all about. I'm not sure he can pull a Tom Brady in his 12th year in the league.

Yes, in the gif somebody posted where Romo kept the ball to pass while the OL was run blocking in a game against the Packers, it was the same scenario with a free outside rusher coming at him from the left, but back then he was able to elude the rusher.

 

[sureletsrace]

Aikman forced the team to cut him even though he knew he was done.

Romo would be required to pay back tens of millions of dollars if he retired without being cut. That's not just forgoing future money, but actually having to write a check to the Cowboys to repay them. Nobody is going to do that.

So there's no way a player and team can just part ways and void the future of the contract while leaving the past part of the contract untouched?

That's crazy. Is there a reason behind that? Is there some way a team could abuse that?

 

[TwoDeep3]

If Romo can't play, then the Cowboys are going to have a top 10 pick and can draft a QB. With this offensive line and supporting offensive cast including Dez, a highly rated rookie QB has a good chance to succeed early. Most top 10 QBs go to teams with terrible offensives. That wouldn't be the case in this scenario.

In regards to Dez, if they make Romo a designated June 1st cut, they will have room to franchise Dez. The franchise tag might be cheaper than the salary that he wants because of the odd way the top 5 WR contracts fall. The top 2 are about 16M and might be the number that Dez wants; however, #3 is about 12M and #4 and #5 are lower. That puts the tag at significantly below the top 2 WR salaries.

The only way that doesn't work out is if Romo is good all season and then has a career ending setback near the end of the season (i.e. No Romo and No top 10 pick in 2015). This seems like an unlikely scenario.

Projected to go one and two. Can Dallas get there? Do they intrigue you as franchise QB?

1. http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/images/fball/raidersb_logo.gif Oakland Raiders: Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/college/Oregon_logo.gif
   The obvious question regarding this pick: What about Derek Carr? Well, Carr was atrocious in the season opener, failing to go downfield at all until garbage time. If Carr continues to play this way, Oakland will have the worst record in the NFL, and it'll be in position to draft either Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston. We've seen franchises give up on second-round signal-callers after one year, so that's what would happen in this scenario. If, however, Carr improves, it'll be a moot point because Oakland won't be selecting first overall.
   
   It's a close call between Mariota and Winston in terms of talent, but the former has a slight edge right now. With most things being equal, Mariota is clean off the field. Winston, meanwhile, has several off-the-field issues that could scare some teams away.
   
   Follow @walterfootball for updates.
   
   Pick change; previously Andrus Peat, OT
   
2. http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/images/fball/giantsb_logo.gif New York Giants: Jameis Winston, QB, Florida State http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/college/FloridaState_logo.gif
   As CoryCurren from the forums put it, "Winless for Winston." The Giants, like the Raiders, are an abomination right now. It all starts with Eli Manning. I don't know what happened to him, but he has somehow aged a decade in an entire offseason. Being unable to complete routine passes, Manning resembles a rotting carcass right now. He's done, and the Giants need to start over.
   
   Jameis Winston has the talent to go No. 1 overall, but character issues could drop him. I believe talent will win out, however, and that Winston will be a top-five pick. We've even had one NFL GM tell us that Jameis Winston is the real deal.

 

[Zordon]

then he should do the respectable thing and retire.

 

[ufcrules1]

Lol you guys have become so unappreciative of what Romo has done for this franchise based on one week, it's **** sad. Worst part is if he throws 300 yds 3 tds 0 ints a couple games in a row you'll all be claiming BSPN is underrating him. Quit being so reactionary.

Please, I have been watched every snap he has ever played. Welcome to reality pal. Put a fork in him, he is done.

 

[wileedog]

His problem might be more related to mobility than to arm strenght. He tried to do his signature move vs Justin Smith and got sacked. He's going to have to adjust to being a pocket passer now and I'm not sure he can do that at this stage of his career. His ability to extend plays and use his quickness to buy time is what Romo magic was all about. I'm not sure he can pull a Tom Brady in his 12th year in the league.

Agree with this. There were also a couple of times he pulled the ball down and visibly flinched when no one was within a couple of yards of him.

I'll wait to see a few more games before I hit the panic button, but it wasn't just the unforced errors in that game - everyone is used to those. He looked physically off.

 

[KJJ]

I've already said that Romo's arm strength might be an issue, but if we look at the problems in the Niners game, arm strength is not the primary issue. Regardless of the quality of the pass to Harris, it's didn't cause the loss or cause any problem because it was caught by Harris.

Romo said that he was good physically but the problems were mental.

The pass to Dez was fine if there was no underneath defender. If the defender behind Dez was the one that Romo saw, then he would error on the side of under-throwing that pass. The problem was that he didn't see the underneath guy. It's obvious in the game footage and it correlates with Romo's comments about it.

You said the reason he didn't see the underneath defender is because they ran play action and Romo does a 360 in the backfield with his eyes off the field. As soon as he turns back around, he throws the ball to the spot where he is expecting Dez. You went on to say It's easy to see from the endzone camera view that it would be difficult to see that defender in that situation. If that all came from Romo fine but you enjoy giving your own account of things.

No one knows for sure what Romo saw, didn't see or what he expected not even Garrett until he talks with Romo. He's asks Romo what he saw or what he expected on a certain play to understand his thought process. You can't just assume where a QB's eyes are as they're spinning around or what they saw or expected until they explain it.

 

[xwalker]

I appreciate the response.

There is no "offset" in your example. I think what you mean is the overall cap number is reduced by the amount of the base salary; the overall cap number that would have been paid is "offset" by the base salary. But again, the dead money remains.

And the Cap numbers may be identical in both of your scenarios (with and without Romo) but the situations are drastically different because you are paying for a player not on the roster and now you need to replace him, but don't have the money (or have a reduced amount) to spend because its tied up in dead money.

In addition, the use of the term "offset" to describe the reduction in the overall cap money gets even more confusing when you look at how offset language works in players' contracts (an offset that does appear to reduce the dead money owed a player). Take a look at the Tenn. Cortland Finnegan contract for an example.

See: http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/tag/_/name/cortland-finnegan

Offset:
1. something that counterbalances or compensates for something else

You're trying to give offset a formal meaning relative to NFL player contracts. That's not how I'm using offset in this situation.

It is an offset in the way that I have described it, but not the same formal offset that you're trying to relate it to. You can use whatever word makes you feel better.

For example, if you sign a player to a team with a non-guaranteed contract for 1-year, 1M in April and then in May you cut that player and sign another player to a 1-year, 1M contract, then the contracts offset. The total cap space remains the same.

If you sign 2 players in April each to 1-year, 1M contracts and then cut them to sign 1 player to a 1-year, 2M contract, then the contracts offset relative to the salary cap despite the fact that you had 2 players originally and then had only 1 player. It's still an offset relative to the salary cap, but not an offset relative the total number of players on the roster. The offset is defined as an offset to the cap in this situation and not an offset to anything else and not some formal offset language in a players contract.


I'll try again without using the word "offset".

Two scenarios:
1. Romo is on the team in 2015 and his cap hit is 27.5M.

2. Romo cut and his cap hit is 27M and his replacements cap hit is 0.5M.

In both scenarios the Cowboys cap situation is the same relative to signing other free agents. If they have cap space to sign Suh in scenario 1, then they have cap space to sign Suh in scenario 2. Obviously, the key is that Romo has to be replaced with an inexpensive QB. With the current CBA, a top 10 pick will be more than 0.5M, but not a huge amount more. If they just stay with Weeden, then his salary is already right at 0.5M.

 

[rpntex]

I don't believe the problem Sunday was in Tony Romo's back. In fact, I'll say it had nothing to do with his back. It had everything to do with his head.

He made some throws that were crisp (see the very first completion - deep cross to Terrance Williams). It had loads of zip on it.

The long INT (Parish Cox's INT) was 57 yards in the air. So much for a lack of arm strength.

I simply think he got into his own head and overthought things. He's accustomed to having to do it all by himself, and it's difficult for him to trust those around him to take some of that load off. He's got to let go, and trust himself. Like we tell a baseball pitcher - don't think about it---just throw. As soon as Romo can come to grips with the fact that he's fine, he will be.

 

[noshame]

What tony needs now is a real QB coach, because he is a hot mess. Not sure it would help enough, but it couldn't hurt.

 

[TimHortons]

The only way that doesn't work out is if Romo is good all season and then has a career ending setback near the end of the season (i.e. No Romo and No top 10 pick in 2015). This seems like an unlikely scenario.

I don't think this situation is as unlikely as you say. In fact, it just happened last year. Sure, it didn't end his career, but if last year's situation played put in a similar fashion this year, it very well could end his career. He came back from his second back surgery, but a third back surgery might be curtains.

 

[xwalker]

You said the reason he didn't see the underneath defender is because they ran play action and Romo does a 360 in the backfield with his eyes off the field. As soon as he turns back around, he throws the ball to the spot where he is expecting Dez. You went on to say It's easy to see from the endzone camera view that it would be difficult to see that defender in that situation. If that all came from Romo fine but you enjoy giving your own account of things.

No one knows for sure what Romo saw, didn't see or what he expected not even Garrett until he talks with Romo. He's asks Romo what he saw or what he expected on a certain play to understand his thought process. You can't just assume where a QB's eyes are as they're spinning around or what they saw or expected until they explain it.

Like I said, Romo did discuss it. Somebody asked him about the specific play and he said he didn't see the underneath defender. I heard it on local sports talk radio so I don't know where the audio is located relative to the internet.

I followed up with my own take with what you can see the end-zone camera view. The end-zone camera view is very close to the QB view on this play. On the camera view you can see the underneath defender as you watch the play develop; however, if you cover up the video during the time that Romo's facing away from the field and away from that defender and then start watching it, the underneath defender is much more difficult to see until the very last moment when he steps back and intercepts the ball.

The underneath defender happened to be at exactly the worst spot on the field relative to Romo doing a 360 for the play-action. Using a clock reference, if Romo looking straight downfield is 12:00, then Dez was at about 1:00. Romo goes from 12:00, past 1:00 and all the way around back to the 1:00 position. The defender is at about 2:00 in this scenario and somewhat hidden by another, closer defender that is moving in the opposite direction. By the time Romo see him clearly, Romo has already released the ball. If Romo had been rotating counter clockwise instead of clockwise, then the defender would likely have passed through his field of vision. If Romo had not spun around for play-action he likely would have seen the defender.

 

[xwalker]

I don't think this situation is as unlikely as you say. In fact, it just happened last year. Sure, it didn't end his career, but if last year's situation played put in a similar fashion this year, it very well could end his career. He came back from his second back surgery, but a third back surgery might be curtains.

Nothing is impossible, but he had back surgery. If he wins enough games to prevent a top 10 pick, then the surgery and rehab was probably successful.

 

[daveferr33]

The offset is defined as an offset to the cap in this situation and not an offset to anything else[.]

Precisely my point.

I knew that was what you meant all along, but its confusing when you say dead money gets offset because that makes it sound like the dead money goes away. It doesn't; it remains on the books. The only thing that goes away is base salary, which offsets the overall cap number (base + bonus) that would have charged had the player not been cut.

 

[xwalker]

What tony needs now is a real QB coach, because he is a hot mess. Not sure it would help enough, but it couldn't hurt.

They could have gotten David Lee back between the 2012 and 2013 seasons. Romo says that is the guy that he learned the most from in his career.

 

[rpntex]

Wade Wilson said during camp Romo lost something on his deep balls and you could see that last Sunday. The deep pass to Dez that was picked off was short and fluttering and the lucky completion to Harris was also a duck that was short but Harris was able to make a play on it.

You're taking the quote from Wade Wilson out of context. He said that the deep ball was lacking because Romo was holding back - reluctant to let it go and test his back. He also said, in the very next sentence, that he was throwing better than he had been at the beginning of camp, and that he expected that he would get stronger with time.

As for the INT intended for Dez, it was short, but still traveled 57 yards in the air.