Kam Wimbley

[Rack]

Another thing about book smarts. I think, that sometimes the bright players can think too much. Almost over analyze things from the snap.

I still say book smarts don't help a football player learn. It's a good indication of a person with a good head on their shoulders, but it's not gonna help on the football field.


Book smarts = ability to learn something from reading/writing and apply it to something via reading/writing.


Football smarts = ability to learn things physical. Like how to take on a blocker on a trap block, how to use your hands on a swim move, and even non-physical things like reading play action, reading a draw, reading a 3-stop drop vs a 5 step drop, etc....


Book smarts will help learning alignment and coverage responsibilities and stuff like that, but you don't have to be an engineer major to learn that stuff. In fact, you'd have to be pretty dumb to not figure that out.

Either way, saying that he has an engineering degree will help turn him into a smart football player is a reach, at best. And an engineering degree is gonna do nothing for a player's instincts.

 

[Rack]

I agree...that's why Lawson is 3rd on my list. If they can't support the run they won't play.

I think Carpenter could contribute against the run and pass defense right out of the gate...and be solid pass rusher.

I think Wimbley could contribute against the run and rush the passer right out of the gate and be decent in pass coverage. I think he has huge upside and ability to cover, but will take some work and time.

In the end Wimbley will be good, so will Carpenter.

I agree with that 100%. Wimbley and Carpenter are the best fits, easily.

 

[Rack]

Once again Rack you have completly focused on the parts of the post and quoted me out of context in order to justify your own post.

If you says so, Susan. Sorry, I like Lawson too, but I'm not gonna believe some BS just to justify why I like him. I like him, but I don't have MannyLove for him.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by ddh33
Here's a question I have asked before, but what does Parcells like to do with his 3-4 scheme? I mean, traditionally, does he like to have two true blitzers on the outside? Does he tend to drift towards the DE converts? Does he like more of a true coverage TE?

History has shown that Bill's past tends to repeat itself. It might be handy to know that information.

Mixed bag. Carl Banks was more of a traditional LB in college. He inherited Mo Lewis with the Jets, who was a first round draft pick and didn't really need to be replaced. When he came to the Patriots he didn't have anyone at the position, and the drafted two former college DE's in Chris Slade and Willie McGinnest to man the positions. He took Slade first in 1993, and then turned around and spent the 9th pick on the draft on McGinnest the following year.

If you look at Belichick, he's been using a 3 man interchangable rotation of McGinnest, Vrabel and Colvin to fill both right and left positions ... all three were undersized DE pass rushers in college.

 

[AsthmaField]

I still say book smarts don't help a football player learn. It's a good indication of a person with a good head on their shoulders, but it's not gonna help on the football field.


Book smarts = ability to learn something from reading/writing and apply it to something via reading/writing.


Football smarts = ability to learn things physical. Like how to take on a blocker on a trap block, how to use your hands on a swim move, and even non-physical things like reading play action, reading a draw, reading a 3-stop drop vs a 5 step drop, etc....


Book smarts will help learning alignment and coverage responsibilities and stuff like that, but you don't have to be an engineer major to learn that stuff. In fact, you'd have to be pretty dumb to not figure that out.

Either way, saying that he has an engineering degree will help turn him into a smart football player is a reach, at best. And an engineering degree is gonna do nothing for a player's instincts.

There's a feel to playing football... that's the best way I can describe it. How did I know to take the right angles to tackle a guy when I played? I don't know... I just knew that you don't run at the guy... you run where he's going to be when you get there. Nobody told me that, I just learned it from chasing guys all through my childhood. Nobody told me that to push the other guy I needed to be lower than him... it just felt right to get low when pushing. How did I know when to cutback when someone had an angle on me when I was running with the ball? I don't know, it just felt right.

I don't think everyone learns that growing up... or some people don't learn it or feel it to the degree that some others do.

I gurantee you that Roy Williams just instictually knows how to hit... how to explode on the ball carrier... other's need to be taught, and because they don't "Feel" it like Roy did, they'll never be as hard a hitter. Never.

It's a very complex thing that I'm trying to explain and I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of it, but there is just a feel to playing football. The good one's have it and it is more important than any measurable you can find.

 

[Rack]

With two of his teams, Giants and Jets, he inherited his LOLB's in Mo Lewis and Carl Banks when he took the job. With the Patriots he didn't have anyone at the position. The drafted two former college DE's in Chris Slade and Willie McGinnest.

If you look at Belichick, all three of his OLB's the past 3 years were pass rushing specialist DE's in college ... McGinnest, Vrabel and Colvin.

He inherited Banks when he became head coach, but Parcells was the LB coach before they drafted Banks.

Take that for what it's worth. Might mean nothing.


Also, wasn't McGinnest a WOLB when he was first drafted? Can't remember. If Nors were here, he'd know.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

If we can't get Lawson, I'd gladly settle for Wimbley. Carpenter is my third choice.

 

[Rack]

There's a feel to playing football... that's the best way I can describe it. How did I know to take the right angles to tackle a guy when I played? I don't know... I just knew that you don't run at the guy... you run where he's going to be when you get there. Nobody told me that, I just learned it from chasing guys all through my childhood. Nobody told me that to push the other guy I needed to be lower than him... it just felt right to get low when pushing. How did I know when to cutback when someone had an angle on me when I was running with the ball? I don't know, it just felt right.

I don't think everyone learns that growing up... or some people don't learn it or feel it to the degree that some others do.

I gurantee you that Roy Williams just instictually knows how to hit... how to explode on the ball carrier... other's need to be taught, and because they don't "Feel" it like Roy did, they'll never be as hard a hitter. Never.

It's a very complex thing that I'm trying to explain and I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of it, but there is just a feel to playing football. The good one's have it and it is more important than any measurable you can find.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I agree, very difficult to explain.

Those, my friend, are instincts.

When I was at Midwestern (trying out for TB) the coaches commented that I was by far the best RB we had at "Feeling" or finding the hole. Another word for it is Vision, although I don't remember actually seeing any holes, just feeling them.

By the way, I was way too "Slow" so they moved me to FB. Later I asked to be moved to defense (SOLB). The offense for that team was like playign for the bad news bears. The defensive guys were more disciplined and dedictated.

Anyway... get a little OT there.

 

[Rack]

If we can't get Lawson, I'd gladly settle for Wimbley. Carpenter is my third choice.

Same choices here, just a different order.


Carpenter
Wimbley
Lawson


The first two are the best fits, in order.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Also, wasn't McGinnest a WOLB when he was first drafted? Can't remember. If Nors were here, he'd know.

McGinnest was strictly a DE at USC. Jerry tried to trade up that year to draft him to replace Haley. Instead we ended up with Shante Carver.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Same choices here, just a different order.


Carpenter
Wimbley
Lawson


The first two are the best fits, in order.

I'm a sucker for pass rushers. That's why I'm going Lawson & Wimbley first. Not saying Carpenter couldn't be a beast, but I'm not buying all this junk about Wimbley and Lawson not holding up against the run or offensive tackles. Wimbley was a freaking defensive linemen. Lawson will be just like Ware, two years in the NFL, and he'll be a bulked up bad mother bleeper. I'll be happy with all three but I'd really love another pass rushing menace and a linebacker crew that can mind %*#$# an offensive coordinator and quarterback all day with the blitz. :

 

[AsthmaField]

McGinnest was strictly a DE at USC. Jerry tried to trade up that year to draft him to replace Haley. Instead we ended up with Shante Carver.

uke:


Yep. Parcells jumped up in front of us and nabbed him. I also liked, I think it was Bryant Young that year and really wanted us to take him. Instead, San Fran did and he was a yearly pro bowler.

Carver had more AA visits though. Plus Carver had everything going for him... he was small and slow.

 

[Alexander]

Instead we ended up with Shante Carver.

The next time you are going to kick someone in the family jewels, please have the common courtesy to warn them next time.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

The next time you are going to kick someone in the family jewels, please have the common courtesy to warn them next time.

The memory of Shante Carver does give ya that nice rosey kicked in the nads feeling, doesn't he? "Dude, you were Shante Carvered!"

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

McGinnest was strictly a DE at USC. Jerry tried to trade up that year to draft him to replace Haley. Instead we ended up with Shante Carver.

I remember that. There was a series of year there when we just couldn't seem to get it done. Wanted Brackens in 96, he was taken by the Jags a couple of spots earlier. Ended up with Pittman. Wanted Gonzales in 97 but couldn't do anything to move up and get him. Ended up with LaFluer. The world wanted Moss and we took Ellis in 98. Wanted Javon Kearse BAD in 99. He went to the Oilers a couple of picks before ours and we ended up with Ek. Then came the wasted pick years for the Galloway trade and it just was like 10 years of utter frustration.

Glad it's over.

 

[Rack]

McGinnest was strictly a DE at USC. Jerry tried to trade up that year to draft him to replace Haley. Instead we ended up with Shante Carver.

First of all, thanks for making me sick with that Carver comment.


Second of all... No I meant when he was a pro. Wasn't he a WOLB early in his pro career?



Third of all, thanks again for the Carver comment.

I'll be happy with all three but I'd really love another pass rushing menace

I think you're severely undervaluing (sp?) Carpenter's pass rush ability.

 

[Rack]

I remember that. There was a series of year there when we just couldn't seem to get it done. Wanted Brackens in 96, he was taken by the Jags a couple of spots earlier. Ended up with Pittman. Wanted Gonzales in 97 but couldn't do anything to move up and get him. Ended up with LaFluer. The world wanted Moss and we took Ellis in 98. Wanted Javon Kearse BAD in 99. He went to the Oilers a couple of picks before ours and we ended up with Ek. Then came the wasted pick years for the Galloway trade and it just was like 10 years of utter frustration.

Glad it's over.

All of those, except the bolded one, have one thing in common. We wanted a specific player, couldn't get him so we ended up reaching for another player at the same position.


I don't think we'd have to do that this year. I'd be happy with Carpenter, Wimbley, or Lawson at 18.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

All of those, except the bolded one, have one thing in common. We wanted a specific player, couldn't get him so we ended up reaching for another player at the same position.


I don't think we'd have to do that this year. I'd be happy with Carpenter, Wimbley, or Lawson at 18.

My statements have nothing to do with team views on this. These are the players that I specifically wanted. I'm sure the team may have had interest in these players to a degree as well but I really can't speak for that. I just know who I wanted and who we ended up with. Not a very pretty list.

 

[Rack]

My statements have nothing to do with team views on this. These are the players that I specifically wanted. I'm sure the team may have had interest in these players to a degree as well but I really can't speak for that. I just know who I wanted and who we ended up with. Not a very pretty list.

Actually I'm pretty sure the team also wanted those players. I know they wanted Gonzo. Pretty sure they wanted Brackens. Not sure on Kearse though.

 

[burmafrd]

JJ had good instincts for first rd picks initially- but his backups STANK. If you think about it- had we gotten those guys that we originally wanted we would have had some real talent instead of those losers. How might things have been different.