Ko Simpson or Davin Joseph?

[ghst187]

btw, I'd take Daniel Bullocks over both Ko and Davin

I'm not even sure Bullocks would be an upgrade over what we already have at S. Does he even play FS? or predominatly SS?

 

[fishspill]

Not a fair pick on my part since I haven't seen a lot of Ko, but I'd go Joseph. Athletic, sharp, disciplined and I still think we need versitile OL. Joseph is an NFL guard but I suspect could buy you time at tackle too.

 

[cowboyuptx]

Joseph....... Then Pat Watkins, Anthony Smith, or Cedric Griffin in the 3rd..... yeah, that would do.

 

[Zaxor]

As for me give me Joseph in the second and Ko in the third

 

[InmanRoshi]

We're going into next year with less depth at guard than we had at offensive tackle last year. At least last year at tackle we had a backup of T. Tucker, who had an entire season of starts under his belt and had demonstrated he could stay healthy. As it currently stands, our only viable backup guard is S. Peterman who is limited to only playing one guard position, hasn't played a single regular season game in the NFL and can't withstand the rigors of preseason games and practicing every day without getting severely injured ... much less playing a load of regular season games. This is with a questionable starter in Kosier and a starter on his last legs in Rivera. Sure, we could kick out Gurode if needed, but that just creates another hole behind Al Johnson who has shown his own problems staying healthy.

Guard is, without a doubt, more of a concern than FS. Ko Simpson is not starting next year. His questionable mental agility aside, he's raw and stupidly came out for the draft early when he wasn't nearly ready ... he's a project player who will need 2 years to become a starter. Any team that starts him next year will be in deep trouble with him biting on pumpfakes and playaction and giving up plays over the top. Besides, I don't believe the Cowboys are overly eager to pay Keith Davis $2 million next season to just play 15-20 special team snaps a game. They're not going to just hand a rookie the starting FS job on a silver platter like some of you are willing to.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Robert Gallery had a hard time finding the field his rookie year, are you then saying that Joseph is a better prospect than Gallery was? I hope not, Joseph would be a depth pick, take Simpson, he'll start

Robert Gallary was a LT at Iowa. When he came into the league, he had to play Guard and RT. He basically had to learn another position. Yeah, I'd say that right now, Joseph is probably better suited to start in the NFL then was Gallary by vertue of the fact that he will likely be playing his natural position when he arrives.

 

[JonJon]

Guard is, without a doubt, more of a concern than FS. Ko Simpson is not starting next year. His questionable mental agility aside, he's raw and stupidly came out for the draft early when he wasn't nearly ready ... he's a project player who will need 2 years to become a starter. Any team that starts him next year will be in deep trouble with him biting on pumpfakes and playaction and giving up plays over the top. Besides, I don't believe the Cowboys are overly eager to pay Keith Davis $2 million next season to just play 15-20 special team snaps a game. They're not going to just hand a rookie the starting FS job on a silver platter like some of you are willing to.

That's funny, because I saw all the Gamecock games last season, and I never saw Ko Simpson "biting on pumpfakes and playaction and giving up plays over the top." Simpson actually was very good in coverage. Last season, QBs were hesitant to throw in the middle of the field because Simpson had it on lock, and opted to attack the corners, which is why teammate Jonathan Joseph did so well last year. But with all of that, Ko never shyed away from the ball; he always managed to be around the action and made solid tackles. The only reason his stock dropped is because he scored low on his wonderlic, but scoring low on that doesn't mean you are stupid and don't know how to play football. The reason he came out this year is because he will be 23 by the time the 2006 season starts and didn't want to be too old coming out of college. That was the right decision IMO considering his circumstances.
Simpson may not start right away, but I guarantee he would be starting by game 8 because he is tons better in coverage than Pile and Davis, supports the run, and makes solid tackles.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

That's funny, because I saw all the Gamecock games last season, and I never saw Ko Simpson "biting on pumpfakes and playaction and giving up plays over the top." Simpson actually was very good in coverage. Last season, QBs were hesitant to throw in the middle of the field because Simpson had it on lock, and opted to attack the corners, which is why teammate Jonathan Joseph did so well last year. But with all of that, Ko never shyed away from the ball; he always managed to be around the action and made solid tackles. The only reason his stock dropped is because he scored low on his wonderlic, but scoring low on that doesn't mean you are stupid and don't know how to play football. The reason he came out this year is because he will be 23 by the time the 2006 season starts and didn't want to be too old coming out of college. That was the right decision IMO considering his circumstances.
Simpson may not start right away, but I guarantee he would be starting by game 8 because he is tons better in coverage than Pile and Davis, supports the run, and makes solid tackles.

case in point, Green Bay Packer 3rd round choice Nick Collins, didn't he score something like a 9 on his wonderlic, and I'm sure the Pack are happy they didn't put too much stock in it

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Joseph is probably better suited to start in the NFL then was Gallary by vertue of the fact that he will likely be playing his natural position when he arrives.

Joseph may be better suited, but that's not guarantee that he'll start, you could say the same for Ko, but FS is a more valued position than OG, and in the draft, you pick for value

 

[Bob Sacamano]

This is with a questionable starter in Kosier and a starter on his last legs in Rivera. Sure, we could kick out Gurode if needed, but that just creates another hole behind Al Johnson who has shown his own problems staying healthy.

I know you continually say that we have questionable starters at OG, but at least they are somewhat of a commodity, while Joseph is going to be a rookie, an unknown, Ko has a better chance of seeing the field than Joseph does

 

[DiscipleofTuna]

Summer,

I love Matua. He is big and mobile and played for a successful program. Those are my kind of guys. It goes with the whole mobility theme that seems to be the thing now at Valley Ranch.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Summer,

I love Matua. He is big and mobile and played for a successful program. Those are my kind of guys. It goes with the whole mobility theme that seems to be the thing now at Valley Ranch.

we can get a quality OG, and at great value to boot, in the 3rd round, while some insiders feel that there is going to be a run on the S in the 2nd round, but alas, I'd feel better taking Daniel Bullocks over both Ko and Davin

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm not even sure Bullocks would be an upgrade over what we already have at S. Does he even play FS? or predominatly SS?

he was listed as a SS at Nebraska, but he played alot of man-to-man, and in the Senior BOwl workouts, he showed he was versatile, being able to cover in the deep zone, what Davis and Pile really struggled at last year, and act like a 4th LB, he also seemed to be always around the football in the workouts and game, he could definitely play FS, and his 40 time and vertical leap are great for the position, 4.38, 41 inch vert

 

[InmanRoshi]

I know you continually say that we have questionable starters at OG, but at least they are somewhat of a commodity, while Joseph is going to be a rookie, an unknown, Ko has a better chance of seeing the field than Joseph does

Every player taken in the draft is a rookie and an unknown, but unlike Simpson, Joseph is the best player at his position in this draft which leaves me to conclude he would be the most ready to step in day 1.

And we do have two questionable starters at guard. OL was by far the weakest link on the team last year, infinitely worse than oursecondary, and we've done little to upgrade the interior OL in free agency. Many would suggest that Kosier for Allen is actually a step backwards. If you polled 32 GM's to rank our starting guard tandem in the NFL, they would probably finish in the late 20's ... at best. With no depth behind them. They're bad before an injury. Caastrophically bad after.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If you polled 32 GM's to rank our starting guard tandem in the NFL, they would probably finish in the late 20's ... at best.

and if you conducted that same poll and instead put FS in there, we'd finish at 32, plus the value of FS over OG=KO, but I'd prefer Bullocks

 

[InmanRoshi]

When I see a free safety making anywhere close to the $49 million (16 million garaunteed) that Steve Hutchinson made on the open market in free agency, then I'll agree that FS has move value than G. Until then, I think you've concocted that value in your mind.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

When I see a free safety making anywhere close to the $16 million in garaunteed money that Steve Hutchinson made on the open market in free agency, then I'll agree that FS has move value than G. Until then, I think you've concocted that value in your mind.

have you seen an OG go top 10 in the draft? do you know that some teams would rather convert OTs into OGs because they are more athletic? sorry my friend, OG ranks at the bottom of team's wishlists, right above P

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Joseph may be better suited, but that's not guarantee that he'll start, you could say the same for Ko, but FS is a more valued position than OG, and in the draft, you pick for value

Sorry, but I don't agree here. Joseph will be the higher rated player on our draft board or probably anybody elses. FS is not a more valuable position then OG. First of all, it depends on what scheme you run. If your a Cover2 Tampa Bay type scheme, then your probably right. In that scheme, Safeties are more valuable then say CBs but not then Guards. A solid top rated Guard is a 2nd round pick easily. Always has been. One is not valued more then the other by virtue of position. Each is critical to a teams success and I would probably say that a stand out OL is more important then a Safety. JMO. Having said that, Joseph could easily start for us in a year. KO probably won't simply because he would have to call all the plays and he's not going to be able to do that. There are several NFL quality FS in this draft. There are not an over abundance of quality Guards. That alone would probably provide more value to Joseph then Simpson. That is how I see this.

 

[InmanRoshi]

do you know that some teams would rather convert OTs into OGs because they are more athletic? sorry my friend, OG ranks at the bottom of team's wishlists, right above P

And washed up and stiff CB's convert to FS as a last resort to lengthen their careers when they can't cut the mustard at CB.

Again, just show me a free safety in this league that has gotten half of the $16 million in signing bonus that Hutchinson got. This year's top FS, Chavous, got $4 . Last year's top FS, Dwight Smith, got $3.5. Barely even a quarter of what Hutchinson got.

Larry Allen, Hutchinson, Randy Thomas all earned significantly more in guaranteed money than any free safety has gotten in the last 5 years. Supply and demand doesn't lie.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

have you seen an OG go top 10 in the draft? do you know that some teams would rather convert OTs into OGs because they are more athletic? sorry my friend, OG ranks at the bottom of team's wishlists, right above P

Logan Mankis was a first round pick last year. There were 3 other Guards taken in the 3rd round.

In 2004, Vernon Carey was a first round pick. Snee and Smiley were both taken in the 2nd.

In 2003, Steinbach was the first pick in the 2nd rd. 4 Guards were taken in the 3rd rd.

In 2002, Kendall Simmons was a first round pick for the Steelers. 3 other Guards were taken in the 2nd.

In 2001, Steve Hutchinson was taken in the 1st round. Mike Gandy was taken in the 3rd.

Mike Wahle was a 2nd round pick. Alan Fenica was a 1st round pick. Chris Naeole was a 1st round pick. In 1996, Pete Kendell, Jeff Hartings and Jermane Mayberry were all 1st round pick. There were 6 other Guards taken in the next 3 rounds.

Ruben Brown was a 1st round pick in 95. There were 6 other Guards taken in the 2nd and 3rd that year.

In 94, no 1st round Guards were taken but there were 8 Guards taken in rounds 2 and 3, including our own Larry Allen in the 2nd. He, BTW, gets huge money to play the position.

Lester Holmes was a 1st rd pick in 93

In 91, King and Moten were both 2nd round picks.

In 89, Joe Wolf was a first round pick. Wisniewski, Widell and Childress were all 2nd rd picks. Utley, Kratch, Fontenot and Zandofsky were all 3rd rd picks.

In 88 Randel McDaniel was a first round pick.

In 86 Reinstra was a 1st Rd pick for the Steelers and Newberry was a 2nd rd pick for the Rams.

That's 20 years of drafts on Guards. I don't think that history supports the fact that Guards are not considered important or that Guards are not drafted high.