Konz and Zeitler

[supercowboy8]

Now I hope we take a TE in 2 just for the board melt-down factor alone.

Fact: You can take away Miles, Dez and Witten for periods of time.

Delete Bennett and add Hernandez/Graham and I'll show you PB caliber TE #2 on this roster.

you can say this about any position.

Option 1. Take a TE in round two and still have Nagy or Costa on your OL
and have a pro bowl TE already in witten, pro bowl WR in Miles and a damn good WR in Dez to take the majority of the plays away form your round 2 TE.
Have two TEs with these two real good WRs and be the only team in the NFL to have this.

or

Option 2 take a OG and C in rounds one and 2 and have a pro bowl TE in witten, a pro bowl WR in Miles and a damn good #2 in Dez.

I will take option 2. I will take a day one starting OG and C that will play every snap over a #2 TE that will play limited roles and will hardly get the ball due to having Miles, Dez, and Witten.
There has to be a reason why no other NFL teams have two real good TEs and two real good WRs. It must not work. Is there or have there ever been a team with a pro bowl 1000 yard WR, a pro bowl 100 yard TE, then a real good young WR like Dez and then also have a #2 TE that everyone on here wants? If so name that team and did they win a superbowl? If that team did win a superbowl then you won me over. I will rather go with the style that win superbowls.

If you want a TE in round 2 and take option 1 then fine thats you opinion but I would take option 2 10 times out of 10.
You can get a TE in round 2 like Dallas did with Bennett and Fasano or you can get a TE in round 3 like they did with Witten or a TE in round 4 like the Patriots did with Hernandez.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Robinson But my question was show me a NFL offense that has 3 good WRs and two good TEs.

I don't think there is, but again we don't have 3 good recievers

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Robinson is just as good if not better than Avant, Cruz is no longer NYG #3 Manningham is or atleast Robinson is having a better year than Manningham is. Anthony Armstrong doesn't even come close, 5 catches with 47 yards.

do you watch the games or just look at stats (apperently just this year)? You do realize Laurent Robinson was just out there for the takin, and no one bit. We even signed him and released him and again no one bit.

Between this year and last season, he has a whopping 577 yards combined and you think this makes him one of the better #3 WRs in the league. Jason Avant has had 570+ yards the last 2 seasons and is on pace to pass that mark again. If Victor Cruz in the #2, then Robinson definately ain't as good as Mario Manningham (822 yards and 944 yards the last 2 seasons). Even Anthony Armstrong eclipsed 870 yards last year.

Atleast with Armstrong you can say he only had 1 good year (1 more than Robinson) and he's off to a slow start, but with these other guys they are proven. Even if you take the debate outside the division, he's not better than most teams #3 recievers.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

For anybody that just watches the Cowboys and is unaware of there being other teams in the league Green Bay has

#1 WR Greg Jennings (pro-bowl caliber)
#2 WR Jordy Nelson
#3 WR James Jones (better than Laurent Robinson)
#4 WR Donald Driver
#5 WR Randall Cobb (spent a 2nd round pick on a WR, what a waste!)

and a pro-bowl caliber TE in Jermichael Finley.

New Orleans has

a pro bowl caliber TE in Jimmy Graham as well as

#1 WR Marques Colston (pro bowl caliber)
#2 WR Robert Mecham
#3 WR Lance Moore (better than Laurent Robinson)
#4 WR Devery Henderson (better than Laurent Robinson)

whether it's another TE or a better 3rd WR we do need another pass catching option

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Option 1. Take a TE in round two and still have Nagy or Costa on your O.

the two aren't mutually exclusive (center). if we went o-line in round 1, we could still draft a starting caliber guard in round 3 or 4.

In 2010 Jon Asamough was picked in the early third, in the 2009 draft Luis Vasquez was picked mid third and started for the Chargers and in 2008 Jeremy Zuttah was picked mid third round.

And we all saw John Moffit and Will Rackley get taken right after we picked DeMarco Murry in round 3.

Plenty of guards are taken in the third round or later and are capable of starting right away.

And you completely dismiss the notion that rookie Bill Nagy or rookie David Arkin improve.

 

[supercowboy8]

do you watch the games or just look at stats (apperently just this year)? You do realize Laurent Robinson was just out there for the takin, and no one bit. We even signed him and released him and again no one bit.

Between this year and last season, he has a whopping 577 yards combined and you think this makes him one of the better #3 WRs in the league. Jason Avant has had 570+ yards the last 2 seasons and is on pace to pass that mark again. If Victor Cruz in the #2, then Robinson definately ain't as good as Mario Manningham (822 yards and 944 yards the last 2 seasons). Even Anthony Armstrong eclipsed 870 yards last year.

Atleast with Armstrong you can say he only had 1 good year (1 more than Robinson) and he's off to a slow start, but with these other guys they are proven. Even if you take the debate outside the division, he's not better than most teams #3 recievers.

I have watched the games and so far he has shown up this year. he has been doing a great job as a #3

 

[supercowboy8]

the two aren't mutually exclusive (center). if we went o-line in round 1, we could still draft a starting caliber guard in round 3 or 4.

In 2010 Jon Asamough was picked in the early third, in the 2009 draft Luis Vasquez was picked mid third and started for the Chargers and in 2008 Jeremy Zuttah was picked mid third round.

And we all saw John Moffit and Will Rackley get taken right after we picked DeMarco Murry in round 3.

Plenty of guards are taken in the third round or later and are capable of starting right away.

And you completely dismiss the notion that rookie Bill Nagy or rookie David Arkin improve.

Your right we could draft a OG in the 3td round but you can also draft a #2 TE in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Your right we could draft a OG in the 3td round but you can also draft a #2 TE in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

which is why i said if a TE is at the top of the board in round 2, I pull the trigger.

If it's a guard, I'd likely pull the trigger as well, just saying a TE in round 2 is far from a waste

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I have watched the games and so far he has shown up this year. he has been doing a great job as a #3

he's been good, but you can't compare 2 players w/o seeing them both (not just against us). the other 3 are better, maybe not AA, but definately the other guys

 

[realtick]

For anybody that just watches the Cowboys and is unaware of there being other teams in the league Green Bay has

Lol, I see what you did there.

I pointed out to supercowboy8 that the Packers drafted two TEs (D.J. Williams and Ryan Taylor) in the 2011 Draft.

Unfortunately, because neither of those players are putting up Pro Bowl numbers as rookies, he considers them wasted picks in his world.

Good point BTW of bringing up Randall Cobb. Funny the Packers thought to add another WR despite the fact they were already loaded four deep.

 

[supercowboy8]

which is why i said if a TE is at the top of the board in round 2, I pull the trigger.

If it's a guard, I'd likely pull the trigger as well, just saying a TE in round 2 is far from a waste

I agree somewhat, TE would be one of my last choices unless the guy is the next coming of Tony Gonzalez.
I would take a OG, C, DL, or CB before a TE in the 2nd if they are tied on the board.

 

[supercowboy8]

Lol, I see what you did there.

I pointed out to supercowboy8 that the Packers drafted two TEs (D.J. Williams and Ryan Taylor) in the 2011 Draft.

Unfortunately, because neither of those players are putting up Pro Bowl numbers as rookies, he considers them wasted picks in his world.

Good point BTW of bringing up Randall Cobb. Funny the Packers thought to add another WR despite the fact they were already loaded four deep.

I never said they were wasted picks, never once, all I said was what have they done. I wouldn't draft a #2 TE early over a player that could help this team more right away day one.

Also they drafted Randell Cobb for his return ability, they wanted a punt and kick off returner. I'm all for drafting a Randell Cobb, Dallas could really use a player like him to return kicks and punts. I value that over a #2 TE.

 

[supercowboy8]

For anybody that just watches the Cowboys and is unaware of there being other teams in the league Green Bay has

#1 WR Greg Jennings (pro-bowl caliber)
#2 WR Jordy Nelson
#3 WR James Jones (better than Laurent Robinson)
#4 WR Donald Driver
#5 WR Randall Cobb (spent a 2nd round pick on a WR, what a waste!)

and a pro-bowl caliber TE in Jermichael Finley.

New Orleans has

a pro bowl caliber TE in Jimmy Graham as well as

#1 WR Marques Colston (pro bowl caliber)
#2 WR Robert Mecham
#3 WR Lance Moore (better than Laurent Robinson)
#4 WR Devery Henderson (better than Laurent Robinson)

whether it's another TE or a better 3rd WR we do need another pass catching option

I bet I watch more games than you, the question do you watch any of those other games. If you did then you would know Manningham is having a bad year and Avant has never been good. On this team Avant would be a #4 behind Robinson.

I am actually going to the Green bay game in Green Bay on Nov 14th. i will post pics if I need to. My wife's uncle plays for the Packers.

yep they have all those WRs and only one really good TE. I have never said anything about not adding more WR depth, I said about not adding a #2 TE with the other weapons on this team. I would love to add another real good speedster WR.

where did I ever say spending a 2nd round pick on a WR that can return kicks was a waste, I never did.

 

[supercowboy8]

Aaron Hernandez round 4
Jermichael Finley late round 3
Jimmy Graham round 3
Jason Witten round 3

you might be able to get a OG in round 3 but you can also get a TE in round 3. also you can get a pro bowl WR in UDFA and a QB in UDFA. You can get a starter at any position any where in the draft.

 

[realtick]

I never said they were wasted picks, never once, all I said was what have they done. I wouldn't draft a #2 TE early over a player that could help this team more right away day one.

If you're asking what they've done (indicating that they haven't produced much their rookie seasons), you're inferring that they have been a waste. Irregardless, the point is despite the fact the Packers are deep at receiver options including TE Finley, they decided to draft another receiving TE option and add another TE later in the draft.

Also they drafted Randell Cobb for his return ability, they wanted a punt and kick off returner. I'm all for drafting a Randell Cobb, Dallas could really use a player like him to return kicks and punts. I value that over a #2 TE.

While that may be true, the Packers have also been working him into its offense (11 rec. 187 yards 1 TD).

 

[supercowboy8]

If you're asking what they've done (indicating that they haven't produced much their rookie seasons), you're inferring that they have been a waste. Irregardless, the point is despite the fact the Packers are deep at receiver options including TE Finley, they decided to draft another receiving TE option and add another TE later in the draft.



While that may be true, the Packers have also been working him into its offense (11 rec. 187 yards 1 TD).

I asked what have they done as a rhetorical question as they haven't done much. But DJ Williams was a 5th round pick. I never said drafting a #2 TE in the 5th was a wasted pick.

Of course they are going to use that speed and put him in the offense. Why wouldn't you work with a guy with that talent and speed and try to get him plays. I wanted Jacoby Ford, Mike Wallace, and I wanted Cobb last year. I have no problem getting a retruner/speed WR in the draft. That is a major need for this team. Hell Dallas passed on Hester to get Faseno in 2006 in round 2.

 

[realtick]

you might be able to get a OG in round 3 but you can also get a TE in round 3. also you can get a pro bowl WR in UDFA and a QB in UDFA. You can get a starter at any position any where in the draft.

The point you're making is correct, but why are you arguing it one way? Why do you have to draft an OG early? If an OG and TE are both on the Cowboys' board with their 2nd round pick, but the Cowboys have the TE rated higher, why would you be opposed to drafting the TE?

 

[supercowboy8]

The point you're making is correct, but why are you arguing it one way? Why do you have to draft an OG early? If an OG and TE are both on the Cowboys' board with their 2nd round pick, but the Cowboys have the TE rated higher, why would you be opposed to drafting the TE?

I'm arguing it one way because he brought it up the other way.

I wouldn't really, just depends on who is there. Dallas and many teams take players lower on the board if they are close and feel a position of more need.
If there is a big difference then I would be ok with it. But I would be really pissed if there is a player I really want but they pick a TE over that player.

 

[realtick]

I asked what have they done as a rhetorical question as they haven't done much. But DJ Williams was a 5th round pick. I never said drafting a #2 TE in the 5th was a wasted pick.

Um yeah, I know. You asked a rhetorical question to infer that they weren't doing much i.e. wasted picks. You seem to forget your original stance was that this team doesn't need another TE.

Of course they are going to use that speed and put him in the offense. Why wouldn't you work with a guy with that talent and speed and try to get him plays. I wanted Jacoby Ford, Mike Wallace, and I wanted Cobb last year. I have no problem getting a retruner/speed WR in the draft. That is a major need for this team. Hell Dallas passed on Hester to get Faseno in 2006 in round 2.

You're arguing yourself into circles. The point is the Packers added another receiving threat (2nd round pick) and have been incorporating him into the offense despite the fact they were loaded with receiving options going into the 2011 draft.

Your original beef was that we don't need more receiving options, we need to draft offensive line help early.

What's comical is that you have no problem drafting Trent Richardson though and have argued giving reasons why we should. Why? Oh yeah, because he's your favorite, right?

 

[supercowboy8]

Um yeah, I know. You asked a rhetorical question to infer that they weren't doing much i.e. wasted picks. You seem to forget your original stance was that this team doesn't need another TE.



You're arguing yourself into circles. The point is the Packers added another receiving threat (2nd round pick) and have been incorporating him into the offense despite the fact they were loaded with receiving options going into the 2011 draft.

Your original beef was that we don't need more receiving options, we need to draft offensive line help early.

We do need to draft OL early and I will say that until this OL is fixed. GB also draft OL in round 1 the past two years. If my top OG is gone for round 2 I don't want to reach on another OG and I would take the BPA per the board. If that is a top speed WR that can do returns, then fine, this team needs that.

This team does have enough receiving options to make it to the superbowl, just doesn't have the run game and OL or pass defense. I would rather fix those things first. GB and NO has those options due to winning the superbowl the past few years.