La’el ejection play clarification

[CWR]

I don't think the 5 yarder has any bearing on the penalty. I think that's only mentioned to explain that the 5 yarder is nullified to keep the penalties from offsetting.

Isn't the 5 yarder the only reason it wasn't treated as a typical dead ball foul? Concurrent penalties and all.

 

[Runwildboys]

No distinction is made in the rule. It only says "15-yard penalty." That could be anything live or dead. Dead is enforced just like live as I just showed you. So they did so. The only thing that changes in a double foul is they enforce from the previous spot, which they did here also. So nothing was done wrong.

Wait, so if they enforce from the previous spot because of the double foul, but by rule, the one foul is declined, doesn't that mean they should mark it from the latter spot? I thought I understood this, but now I'm confused again.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

That gets called quite often. So it very well could've. Remember I think the Pats game when we kept getting tagged with those and it was on guys going out if bounds?

Exactly, so, either way, I think it was a foul.

 

[AbeBeta]

So explain the basic rules of football, genius. More than "I" want clarification Mr Rule book.

"Wahh, I post garbage and am hyper sensitive when people call me out"

 

[MarcusRock]

Wait, so if they enforce from the previous spot because of the double foul, but by rule, the one foul is declined, doesn't that mean they should mark it from the latter spot? I thought I understood this, but now I'm confused again.

A regular equal double foul would be a replay of the down from the previous spot so maybe that is why that part of it is kept.

 

[Clove]

"Wahh, I post garbage and am hyper sensitive when people call me out"

You've been a trash poster for years and I give you a chance to tell us all the rules and what comes from your trap? More trash, you're ignored.

 

[DallasInDC]

Again, look at the rule. There is no distinction between a during the play foul and a dead ball foul. But if you want a dead ball foul definition, here's that too. It's enforced as if it occurred during the play (the down counts) hence ........ it was enforced as if during the play like this one was. Lol. Was we still robbed yet?

RULE 14
SECTION 4 SPOTS OF ENFORCEMENT
ARTICLE 9. DEAD BALL FOUL AND FOUL BETWEEN DOWNS. A Dead Ball Foul is a foul that occurs in the continuing action
after a down ends, or a taunting foul that occurs at any time. The penalty for a Dead Ball Foul is enforced from the succeeding
spot, and the down counts.​

There is most definitely a distinction:

Dead Ball Foul is a foul that occurs in the continuing action
after a down ends,....The penalty for a Dead Ball Foul is enforced from the succeeding

spot, and the down counts.​

[/QUOTE]


The ref said the penalty occurred after the play, i.e. after the down ended. The play should have counted (first down unless they reversed the ruling on the field which is not the case if you look at the play-by-play description on ESPN and the NFL app).

 

[Runwildboys]

A regular equal double foul would be a replay of the down from the previous spot so maybe that is why that part of it is kept.

I'm sure a full explanation, with circles, arrows, and graphs will be issued on Thursday.

 

[Runwildboys]

Okay, so according this [A down begins with a snap or free kick (such as a kickoff or safety kick), and ends when the ball or the player in possession of it is declared down by an official, a team scores, or the ball or player in possession of it leaves the field of play.] a down seems to start and end with the play. There doesn't appear to be any distinction between the two.

That answers one of my questions.

 

[MarcusRock]

I'm sure a full explanation, with circles, arrows, and graphs will be issued on Thursday.

I didn't post the whole rule exception list so as to only focus on what was applicable but look here. Highlights in red. Equal penalties, previous spot. 15 vs. 5, previous spot. Both dead ball fouls, succeeding spot. One dead ball foul (previously posted), succeeding spot.

RULE 14
SECTION 5 FOULS BY BOTH TEAMS (DOUBLE FOULS)
ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION. If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which
there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage
down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred.

Exceptions:
(1) If one or more fouls by one team includes a 15-yard penalty, and the penalty for the foul or fouls committed by the other
team is for a five-yard penalty without an automatic First Down, a loss of down, or a 10-second runoff (15 yards versus
five yards), or that is not a spot foul, the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot, and the five-yard penalty is
disregarded. Five vs. 15 enforcement cannot be declined by the team that committed the minor foul, except as described
in (2) below. See 4-8-2-h and 14-4-9-Item 3-Exc. 1 for dead ball fouls at the end of a half.

(2) If one of the fouls is a Dead Ball Foul for delay of game for spiking the ball and the opponent’s foul is a Live Ball Foul,
the team that committed the delay of game foul, in addition to Article 1 above, will have the option to decline the foul
committed by its opponent and be assessed the penalty for delay from the dead-ball spot.

(3) If both fouls are Dead Ball Fouls or are treated as such (14-4-9), the penalties are offset, and the ball is next put in play
at the succeeding spot, unless the Dead Ball fouls occur after the ball has been made ready for play, in which case 5 vs.
15 enforcement applies.

Note: Disqualification of one or more players is enforced, even though the penalties are offset.​

 

[MarcusRock]

There is most definitely a distinction:

Dead Ball Foul is a foul that occurs in the continuing action
after a down ends,....The penalty for a Dead Ball Foul is enforced from the succeeding

spot, and the down counts.​

The ref said the penalty occurred after the play, i.e. after the down ended. The play should have counted (first down unless they reversed the ruling on the field which is not the case if you look at the play-by-play description on ESPN and the NFL app).

Except where the 15 vs. 5 rule I initially posted happens which is an exception. When the exception happens, you follow the exception's rules. Same for Dez and going to the ground. He was bound by those rules instead of the upright catch rules.

 

[AbeBeta]

You've been a trash poster for years and I give you a chance to tell us all the rules and what comes from your trap? More trash, you're ignored.

Lol, you have led the "Make CBZ crap" movement.

 

[Runwildboys]

I didn't post the whole rule exception list so as to only focus on what was applicable but look here. Highlights in red. Equal penalties, previous spot. 15 vs. 5, previous spot. Both dead ball fouls, succeeding spot. One dead ball foul (previously posted), succeeding spot.

RULE 14
SECTION 5 FOULS BY BOTH TEAMS (DOUBLE FOULS)
ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION. If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which
there is not a change of possession, the penalties are offset, and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it is a scrimmage
down, the number of the next down and the line to gain is the same as for the down in which the fouls occurred.

Exceptions:

(1) If one or more fouls by one team includes a 15-yard penalty, and the penalty for the foul or fouls committed by the other​

team is for a five-yard penalty without an automatic First Down, a loss of down, or a 10-second runoff (15 yards versus
five yards), or that is not a spot foul, the 15-yard penalty is enforced from the previous spot, and the five-yard penalty is
disregarded. Five vs. 15 enforcement cannot be declined by the team that committed the minor foul, except as described
in (2) below. See 4-8-2-h and 14-4-9-Item 3-Exc. 1 for dead ball fouls at the end of a half.

(2) If one of the fouls is a Dead Ball Foul for delay of game for spiking the ball and the opponent’s foul is a Live Ball Foul,
the team that committed the delay of game foul, in addition to Article 1 above, will have the option to decline the foul
committed by its opponent and be assessed the penalty for delay from the dead-ball spot.

(3) If both fouls are Dead Ball Fouls or are treated as such (14-4-9), the penalties are offset, and the ball is next put in play
at the succeeding spot, unless the Dead Ball fouls occur after the ball has been made ready for play, in which case 5 vs.
15 enforcement applies.

Note: Disqualification of one or more players is enforced, even though the penalties are offset.​

Wow, I can't believe you wrote all that so fast!

I'm convinced, they didn't screw up. Thanks!

 

[DallasInDC]

Except where the 15 vs. 5 rule I initially posted happens which is an exception. When the exception happens, you follow the exception's rules. Same for Dez and going to the ground. He was bound by those rules instead of the upright catch rules.

Okay, so according this [A down begins with a snap or free kick (such as a kickoff or safety kick), and ends when the ball or the player in possession of it is declared down by an official, a team scores, or the ball or player in possession of it leaves the field of play.] a down seems to start and end with the play. There doesn't appear to be any distinction between the two.

That answers one of my questions.

This is the key point to me, the 5 yard penalty happened during the down, and the personal foul happened after the down.

According to the rules, both fouls need to happen during the down for the rule to apply as it was.

ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION. If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which

I think it was a small nuance that was applied incorrectly. No where does it state in the exception that the 15 yard penalty can occur after the end if the play.

 

[MarcusRock]

This is the key point to me, the 5 yard penalty happened during the down, and the personal foul happened after the down.

According to the rules, both fouls need to happen during the down for the rule to apply as it was.

ARTICLE 1. DOUBLE FOUL WITHOUT CHANGE OF POSSESSION. If there is a Double Foul (3-14-1-e) during a down in which

I think it was a small nuance that was applied incorrectly. No where does it state in the exception that the 15 yard penalty can occur after the end if the play.

Look at the remaining exceptions. Those address Dead Ball Fouls, including Exception 2 that deals with one Live and one specific Dead. Exception 1 makes no distinction. It's solely 15 vs. 5 (Live or Dead) and tells you what happens in those situations. That's what was applied today. You're looking for a slip-up that's not there.

 

[Risen Star]

Prescott has 52 teammates in uniform with him. 2 defended him. The other 50 were okay with it.

Speaks volumes.

 

[Clove]

Let's be honest. If that was Brady, penalty, ejection, and probably a fine.

And dragged to the parking lot and beaten thoroughly.

 

[DallasInDC]

Look at the remaining exceptions. Those address Dead Ball Fouls, including Exception 2 that deals with one Live and one specific Dead. Exception 1 makes no distinction. It's solely 15 vs. 5 (Live or Dead) and tells you what happens in those situations. That's what was applied today. You're looking for a slip-up that's not there.

You're right that is how they applied the penalties, but exception to is very precise in saying "Dead Ball Foul for delay of game for spiking the ball" which is not what happened. I am not looking for anything nefarious, and to say that the rules book is not a convoluted mess would be an understatement, but the way they applied the fouls was different from another time I have seen two similar fouls called.

 

[Doomsday101]

can someone breakdown what happened?

it was third down, WAS got called for offsides and DAL converted the first down, and La’el got the unsportsmanlike like conduct flag. How did the result wind up being 3 and 25?

I did notice when the refs announced it they said the offsides was “declined by rule”. Assuming that’s because they converted the first?

seems like the only two outcomes should have been either offsetting penalties resulting in replaying the down,

or 1st and 25 for converting the play and then having the penalty yardage tacked on.


Anyone know? @MarcusRock

He threw a punch and that can get you tossed from a game.

 

[Brax]

Collins was reacting to Dak being hit out of bounds He took care of business the proper way

It was a clean legal hit, you didn't watch the game, stupid reaction on LC part, no need for that in the game.