La el Collins RT / OG

[jrumann59]

Bigger wingspan.

Martin would have one of if not the smallest wingspans of any starting OT in the NFL. Wingspan is not just arm length. Martin had slightly longer arms than Pugh of the Giants but his wingspan was smaller. It does not guarantee that Collins would be better at OT than Martin, but Collins is much closer to the Center of the Bell Curve of OT measurable(s) than Martin.

by 1 inch on each arm. Both martin and collins are about where the avg RT is as it pertains to arm length.

 

[Bluefin]

I'm of a different mind-set than you. Leary is clearly among our top six and a big step up from Bernadeau. If he could play center, Berny wouldn't need to dress on game day.

If Ronald Leary gets demoted and is able to learn C, there wouldn't be any need to dress Mackenzy Bernadeau for games.

But Leary has never practiced a snap as a pivot as far as I'm aware. I think he would've cross-trained there by now if deemed capable (maybe he has and I don't remember).

I'm all for not moving two players to account for one unless those players are much better than what's available. Why would anyone want to play Weems at RT when you can play Collins there? Just to keep from having to make two moves?

Darrion Weems would be practicing as the swing tackle, he'd be the most prepared to take over for an injured OT.

The starting guards, most especially if it includes rookie La'el Collins, are going to be taking snaps solely on the inside. Collins has never played on the right side of the line, it can be a very steep learning curve. Some NFL players can't do it.

Zack Martin did get some work last year at center, but it's an inside position, there were no reports of him taking a single snap outside at tackle. He needed to focus on becoming an inside player, I feel the same will hold true for Collins, if that's where he lands.

Best seven gives us a chance to not miss a beat if one goes down.

The best seven players doesn't necessarily make them the best seven to dress for games.

The reserves have to bring some flexibility and often help on specials.

Starting five, swing tackle, swing interior.

 

[jrumann59]

Wingspan tells you nothing except a person is long finger to finger. Because you can short arms and a wide chest. Collins arms are about 1 inch longer than Martin's. A cursory search has most NFL RTs sitting between 32 and 34 inches

 

[Bluefin]

But I don't expect Doug Free to miss the pre-season.

He's going to miss OTAs while continuing rehab, but should be cleared before or during training camp, IMO.

If I'm close to the mark on Free, the team may be more interested in trying La'el Collins at LG in order to get the "best five" on the field.

Jason Garrett mentioned Doug Free (6:38) when he did an interview with dallascowboys.com discussing the 2015 draft class.

"We anticipate him being healthy once we get going with football."

 

[jrumann59]

Here are some measurables of 2015 tackles taken from the salary list from over the cap, http://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle/. I could not find the numbers for 3 of them so the average arm length of these 23 tackles is the bottom right hand number.

Gosder Cherilus Colts 36.25
Bryan Bulaga Packers 33.25
Anthony Davis 49ers 34
Jermey Parnell Jaguars
Phil Loadholt Vikings 36.5
Andre Smith Bengals 35.625
Marcus Gilbert Steelers 33.5
Anthony Collins Buccaneers 34
Austin Howard Raiders 33.5
Derek Newton Texans 33.125
Doug Free Cowboys 35.625
Breno Giacomini Jets 32.125
Marcus Cannon Patriots 34
Sebastian Vollmer Patriots 32.875
Jake Matthews Falcons 33.375
Zach Strief Saints 33
Donald Thomas Colts
Michael Oher Panthers 33.5
Taylor Lewan Titans 33.875
DJ Fluker Chargers 36.75
Erik Pears 49ers 33.4
Justin Pugh Giants 32
Riley Reiff Lions 33.25 31.02283

 

[speedkilz88]

Here are some measurables of 2015 tackles taken from the salary list from over the cap, http://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle/. I could not find the numbers for 3 of them so the average arm length of these 23 tackles is the bottom right hand number.

Gosder Cherilus Colts 36.25
Bryan Bulaga Packers 33.25
Anthony Davis 49ers 34
Jermey Parnell Jaguars
Phil Loadholt Vikings 36.5
Andre Smith Bengals 35.625
Marcus Gilbert Steelers 33.5
Anthony Collins Buccaneers 34
Austin Howard Raiders 33.5
Derek Newton Texans 33.125
Doug Free Cowboys 35.625
Breno Giacomini Jets 32.125
Marcus Cannon Patriots 34
Sebastian Vollmer Patriots 32.875
Jake Matthews Falcons 33.375
Zach Strief Saints 33
Donald Thomas Colts
Michael Oher Panthers 33.5
Taylor Lewan Titans 33.875
DJ Fluker Chargers 36.75
Erik Pears 49ers 33.4
Justin Pugh Giants 32
Riley Reiff Lions 33.25 31.02283

Are you claiming the number in red is the average?

 

[jrumann59]

Are you claiming the number in red is the average?

correct. And I made a mistake it should be 33.97738

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jason Garrett mentioned Doug Free (6:38) when he did an interview with dallascowboys.com discussing the 2015 draft class.

In that post I should have said offseason. Brain fart. My bad.

I expect Collins to be the first team RT in minicamps and OTA's. It could go either way but I am betting he succeeds and forces the issue.

 

[Galian Beast]

To me it come down to him either competing with Leary or competing with Green/Weems. He should be able to beat out Green/Weems despite having to switch sides.

Are you factoring in Free's availability for the start of training camp?

 

[xwalker]

Are you factoring in Free's availability for the start of training camp?

If Free is not ready at the beginning of TC, then there is not debate. He has to play RT.

 

[xwalker]

by 1 inch on each arm. Both martin and collins are about where the avg RT is as it pertains to arm length.

I just explained that wingspan is not just arm length.
Wingspan:
Martin: 76-7/8"
Collins: 82"

 

[Brooksey]

They want Free to start, IMO. He's very solid, very smart and the leader of the best line in Football. They signed the guy already, so the money is spent in large part, and he is a real asset in the mind of the Cowboys coaches. They may eventually want Collins to start at RT, but I don't think they want him pushing Free to the bench this year. Wouldn't be best for the on field talent, and it wouldn't be best for the Chemistry of that line.

I think they'd much rather him push Leary down and worry about the long term later.

Garrett said he wants the best 5 on the field and in their eyes, Free is one of those 5.

Free is the leader to some because he's older not because he's better. I would suggest Frederick is the leader of that line now. Leary is young and the only reason people are dismissing him is because he was a UDFA but forget he was a still a 2-3 rd talent. He's not going to give up his seat IMO. Free is still a cream puff and I've seen him be thrown into Romo too many times, the guy has a weak anchor and zero mean streak. Free is the weak link by age and injury history alone, IMO now is the time to move on.

I would play Collins at RT next to Martin and keep Leary right where he is. Chaz Green would be the swing.

 

[Galian Beast]

If Free is not ready at the beginning of TC, then there is not debate. He has to play RT.

And then what happens when Free returns?

 

[AsthmaField]

Free is the leader to some because he's older not because he's better. I would suggest Frederick is the leader of that line now. Leary is young and the only reason people are dismissing him is because he was a UDFA but forget he was a still a 2-3 rd talent. He's not going to give up his seat IMO. Free is still a cream puff and I've seen him be thrown into Romo too many times, the guy has a weak anchor and zero mean streak. Free is the weak link by age and injury history alone, IMO now is the time to move on.

I would play Collins at RT next to Martin and keep Leary right where he is. Chaz Green would be the swing.

I agree that Free is the leader because he is the elder statesman... not because he is better. Clearly, Smith, Frederick, and Martin are much better players. I called him the leader because all of the OL called him the leader... which is likely because of his age, as you say.

I guess we will just have to see. I do know the team seems to like Free more than most of us do, but it would make more sense to a lot of people to replace the old guy and not the young guy.

I'm not going to argue for Free because I don't like him more than Leary, but if I had to guess, I think LG is the spot.

Who knows? I tcould be like X says and he doesn't even start in game 1. It will be interesting that's for sure.

 

[burmafrd]

by 1 inch on each arm. Both martin and collins are about where the avg RT is as it pertains to arm length.

the arm and wingspan mantra is just about as valid as 40 yd times for interior O linemen. There are numerous examples of those with monster wingspans failing and those with below average wingspans suceeding. Only in cases like Costa where his arms were VERY short should it be a real concern. as has been pointed out, an inch means very little in reality (unless its Dez trying to catch a ball in the endzone- there inches really do make a difference)

 

[xwalker]

And then what happens when Free returns?

Like I said before, swing Tackle is very important and they don't have anybody that has proven to be able to play that position. Collins by pedigree should be the leader between himself, Weems and Green.

If Free is not ready at the beginning of TC, Collins might beat him out as the starter if they truly make it an open competition.

 

[gimmesix]

If Ronald Leary gets demoted and is able to learn C, there wouldn't be any need to dress Mackenzy Bernadeau for games.

But Leary has never practiced a snap as a pivot as far as I'm aware. I think he would've cross-trained there by now if deemed capable (maybe he has and I don't remember).



Darrion Weems would be practicing as the swing tackle, he'd be the most prepared to take over for an injured OT.

The starting guards, most especially if it includes rookie La'el Collins, are going to be taking snaps solely on the inside. Collins has never played on the right side of the line, it can be a very steep learning curve. Some NFL players can't do it.

Zack Martin did get some work last year at center, but it's an inside position, there were no reports of him taking a single snap outside at tackle. He needed to focus on becoming an inside player, I feel the same will hold true for Collins, if that's where he lands.



The best seven players doesn't necessarily make them the best seven to dress for games.

The reserves have to bring some flexibility and often help on specials.

Starting five, swing tackle, swing interior.

It's possible Leary could learn to play center, which would eliminate the need for Berny to dress on game days. It's probably a moot point anyway because I think Dallas is likely to trade Leary if Collins takes his starting role.

I still don't agree with you that Weems would necessarily be better just because he's more prepared to take over. If Collins is a vastly superior player, then he's a better option. I do agree that the learning curve for him going to RT could be steep, which is why it would be best to work him at that position early in camp. If he shows the transition is going to be difficult, then we can consider the other options.

I don't worry about how that will affect him at LT or LG because he knows those positions. I think we sell players short some time on their ability to take what they learned at a high level of college football and translate it to the NFL. Yes, he has things to learn because of the system Dallas uses, but he understands how to play the positions.

Martin getting snaps at center is a good example of Dallas cross training. The Cowboys tried him there because they really didn't have a quality backup center (Berny can do OK but is more of a guard). They didn't need him at tackle because they had Parnell. I don't know if Dallas would have used Martin at center in an emergency, though, because he wasn't very good at it.

I'm not sure how much the backup OL we took to games played special teams last year other than being on the line for the punting and field goal teams, which Berny and Leary could both do.

 

[gimmesix]

Like I said before, swing Tackle is very important and they don't have anybody that has proven to be able to play that position. Collins by pedigree should be the leader between himself, Weems and Green.

If Free is not ready at the beginning of TC, Collins might beat him out as the starter if they truly make it an open competition.

There are definitely several options with Collins.

— If he's a slow starter and not better than Free or Leary, then he becomes just the swing tackle. (I think this is the least likely scenario.)

— If Free isn't healthy during OTAs and the start of camp, then Collins likely works with the starters and might just hold on to the position to become the starting RT.

— Whether Free is healthy at the start of camp or gets healthy before the season, Dallas might consider the RT spot his no matter what because of the money they are paying him, his leadership, his savvy, whatever, which would shift Collins over to LG where he'd most likely win the starting job. (Not that Leary is a bad player; simply that Collins is a more gifted player.)

— If Collins wins the starting job at LG, he also could end up as the swing tackle on game days. It would likely depend on what he showed at RT compared to the other candidates considering that Leary and Bernadeau would be our next-best linemen.

 

[Galian Beast]

Like I said before, swing Tackle is very important and they don't have anybody that has proven to be able to play that position. Collins by pedigree should be the leader between himself, Weems and Green.

If Free is not ready at the beginning of TC, Collins might beat him out as the starter if they truly make it an open competition.

If you play your best 5 and Free isn't healthy, that should make it

Smith - Leary - Frederick - Martin - Collins

Free being the swing tackle for a year while Green develops should be a positive.

 

[xwalker]

If you play your best 5 and Free isn't healthy, that should make it

Smith - Leary - Frederick - Martin - Collins

Free being the swing tackle for a year while Green develops should be a positive.

The issue with Free is that his entire game if based on quick feet. He has very limited upper body strength and compensates by having very quick feet to keep himself in front of the pass rusher and avoid having to reach. If Free loses any foot quickness, then he will have big problems. Some big nasty RTs like Loadholt in Minn can play without quick feet because he compensates with overwhelming power and a long reach. Free can't do that.