LaDanian Tomlinson is...

[blindzebra]

yeah but the athletes are exponentially better, especially on defense.
Payton might've gotten crushed and not finished a 16 game season against the current league's defenses....
Payton used to put his head down and hit DBs, well try doing that to Roy or BDawk or some of the DBs that bring the load these days.

What rules help a running back?

Overall, this argument is like saying Lebron is better than Jordan was at this point in their careers....
The predecessors were way ahead of their time but would their performances translate to success in the present? Maybe...who knows?
Both guys are/were capable of taking over a game singlehandedly...and both very great. Who's the greatest? who cares, they were/are both great and enjoy each for what they were/are.

I've been through this before with HH, but I'll repeat it for you.

It is easy to talk about how today's players are bigger and faster, but why is it?

Evolution?

Better nutrition?

Year round training?

You take a player from another era you just can't say he's smaller and slower, because a Jim Brown or Walter Payton born in the 1980 would have the same advantages of today's players.

Likewise one of today's players would not be as big or fast if they were born in the 40's or 50's. It's all relative.

You must judge how they dominated in their time and imagine a 25 year old Brown or Payton playing today that aged those 25 years from 1980 and not them as a 25 year old in 1960 or 1979.

 

[Hostile]

every few years there is a NEW superman that is gonna break all the records ...............

Few years ago it was Priest Holmes ......... before that it was Edgerrin James ...........

And they all fizzle out and then there is a bunch of woulda shoulda coulda ..........

NFL fans are so knee jerk its amazing .........

Marshall Faulk. Heard it for him too.

 

[zrinkill]

The list could go on and on ......

 

[The30YardSlant]

every few years there is a NEW superman that is gonna break all the records ...............

Few years ago it was Priest Holmes ......... before that it was Edgerrin James ...........

And they all fizzle out and then there is a bunch of woulda shoulda coulda ..........

NFL fans are so knee jerk its amazing .........

I dont think anyone ever said Holmes would break records, because he was almost 30 when he started putting up those numbers. Edge is too much of a pass oriented offense to break rushing records.

Marshall Faulk was the guy everyone was googling over early in his time in ST. Louis

 

[dbair1967]

Marshall Faulk was the guy everyone was googling over early in his time in ST. Louis

he started his career with the Colts

then again, when your a 5 yr old troll you probably wouldnt have seen that

David

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Amazing that people forget, not that I was around to watch them either, the great Two Way players of yesteryear....THOSE were versatile players IMO.

 

[zrinkill]

You mean like Deion????


just kidding !!!!! please dont attack me !!!!

 

[Dawgs0916]

he started his career with the Colts

then again, when your a 5 yr old troll you probably wouldnt have seen that

David

He didn't say thats where he spent his entire career, he said everyone was googly for him DURING HIS TIME in St. Louis. And when you repeat the same little immature "5 year old troll" thing over and over it gets old really fast. And anyway, he wasn't a beast until he was in St. Louis, in Indy he was just a good player.

 

[The30YardSlant]

he started his career with the Colts

then again, when your a 5 yr old troll you probably wouldnt have seen that

David

Or, people started talking about him breaking records when he played for the greatest show on turf.

Reading comprehension can make life so much easier

 

[ghst187]

You must judge how they dominated in their time and imagine a 25 year old Brown or Payton playing today that aged those 25 years from 1980 and not them as a 25 year old in 1960 or 1979.

that's essentially what I was saying with the Lebron-Jordan comparison. I was playing devil's advocate before that.
Everyone is bent on stratifying the "greats."

 

[Concord]

Merriman is the most complete Linebacker EVER!

Ware couldn't touch him with a 100 ft pole!

 

[dbair1967]

Reading comprehension can make life so much easier

as would actually SEEING the subject matter you were arguing about (and making a fool of yourself)

David

 

[Avery]

This conversation would be better served in ten years.

Until the sum of all things is completed, no way to tell what would happen. Many thought that Curtis Martin would challenge Emmitt's record. Judging by this season, he may never come close. Doesn't mean things won't change next season or even next week.

Revisionist history is a funny thing. I have to chuckle when I hear that Barry would have thrown out 20,000 yards behind our 90's O-line. No one knows that. Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, but certainly doesn't mean it would happen.

All you can truly go by is what actually takes place, not hypotheticals of Madden 2006 with all-time fantasy drafts.

As for most complete RB ever, I'll go with Payton over LT for now though someday he may get there. Who knows. If you have a crystal ball, fire it up.

Only position I don't think anyone could argue with is Jerry Rice as the best WR of all-time.

And it's not even close.

 

[Hostile]

This conversation would be better served in ten years.

Until the sum of all things is completed, no way to tell what would happen. Many thought that Curtis Martin would challenge Emmitt's record. Judging by this season, he may never come close. Doesn't mean things won't change next season or even next week.

Revisionist history is a funny thing. I have to chuckle when I hear that Barry would have thrown out 20,000 yards behind our 90's O-line. No one knows that. Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, but certainly doesn't mean it would happen.

All you can truly go by is what actually takes place, not hypotheticals of Madden 2006 with all-time fantasy drafts.

As for most complete RB ever, I'll go with Payton over LT for now though someday he may get there. Who knows. If you have a crystal ball, fire it up.

Only position I don't think anyone could argue with is Jerry Rice as the best WR of all-time.

And it's not even close.

Post of the day.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The most complete player to ever play the game. That is all

 

[Jay]

There's more talent in the league nowadays. I don't know how on earth you can say otherwise. You can say that there's more players, and more teams, therefore the talent is scarce, but the fact is that we have more people in our country than we did in the past. Alot more. Alot more football players.

But, with that said.. LT2 can't compare to Sweetness. Not yet, anyways.

 

[Rack]

There's more talent in the league nowadays. I don't know how on earth you can say otherwise. You can say that there's more players, and more teams, therefore the talent is scarce, but the fact is that we have more people in our country than we did in the past. Alot more. Alot more football players.

Not to mention the fact that players in High School, College, and the NFL spend A LOT more time working out (year round pretty much) then players did in the 70s. It's not even close in that regard. Players are bigger, faster, stronger, and do A LOT more actual STUDYING of the game.

There is no doubt that LT is a better player (straight up) then Walter Payton. There's probably 50 RBs NOW that are better then ANY RBs in the 70s jsut for the reasons stated above.

Now, the debate is who is better for that era, IMO. Is there any doubt LT would easily be the best RB in football if he were to be the EXACT same player now, but in the 70s? Or take some guy from the 40s, the absolute best RB in the 40s, and he likely wouldn't have a chance to make an NFL roster today.

Players nowadays are more technically sound then in the 70s. They do A LOT more working out in the offseason which allows for A LOT more teaching/learning of the finer aspects of the game nowadays.

IMO, it's close (between LT2 and Sweetness). I know for a fact most "older" guys tend to almost always think that the guy from "Their era" is better then any of the "new era" guys. For some reason it's personal, in a way. But that doesn't make it a fact.


The only fact in this thread is that NO ONE is "Right" about who is better. It's all just a matter of opinion. The older guys mostly say "Sweetness" is better and the younger guys mostly say "LT2" is better. It's really a pointless debate. Both are undeniably GREAT players. Even if they were playing in the same era they wouldn't be comparable cuz they don't play for the same teams. Take Shawn Alexander, for example. He's a very good RB, but IMO he's not the best in the NFL. If he had to run in Dallas his stats wouldn't be nearly as good as they are playing for Seattle. Take any of the Denver or Pittsburgh RBs, none of them would be as good if they played in Arizona.


It's impossible to compare RBs. Cuz not only do they play with the same players around them, but the opponents they play NEVER play at the exact same level every week. No player, unit, team, etc... is 100% consistent. Teams don't play at the exact same level every week, and they never will.

 

[blindzebra]

Not to mention the fact that players in High School, College, and the NFL spend A LOT more time working out (year round pretty much) then players did in the 70s. It's not even close in that regard. Players are bigger, faster, stronger, and do A LOT more actual STUDYING of the game.

There is no doubt that LT is a better player (straight up) then Walter Payton. There's probably 50 RBs NOW that are better then ANY RBs in the 70s just for the reasons stated above.

Now, the debate is who is better for that era, IMO. Is there any doubt LT would easily be the best RB in football if he were to be the EXACT same player now, but in the 70s? Or take some guy from the 40s, the absolute best RB in the 40s, and he likely wouldn't have a chance to make an NFL roster today.

Players nowadays are more technically sound then in the 70s. They do A LOT more working out in the off season which allows for A LOT more teaching/learning of the finer aspects of the game nowadays.

IMO, it's close (between LT2 and Sweetness). I know for a fact most "older" guys tend to almost always think that the guy from "Their era" is better then any of the "new era" guys. For some reason it's personal, in a way. But that doesn't make it a fact.


The only fact in this thread is that NO ONE is "Right" about who is better. It's all just a matter of opinion. The older guys mostly say "Sweetness" is better and the younger guys mostly say "LT2" is better. It's really a pointless debate. Both are undeniably GREAT players. Even if they were playing in the same era they wouldn't be comparable cuz they don't play for the same teams. Take Shawn Alexander, for example. He's a very good RB, but IMO he's not the best in the NFL. If he had to run in Dallas his stats wouldn't be nearly as good as they are playing for Seattle. Take any of the Denver or Pittsburgh RBs, none of them would be as good if they played in Arizona.


It's impossible to compare RBs. Cuz not only do they play with the same players around them, but the opponents they play NEVER play at the exact same level every week. No player, unit, team, etc... is 100% consistent. Teams don't play at the exact same level every week, and they never will.

If you take Jim Brown, Red Grange, or Jim Thorpe and put him in today's game they'd have the same benefits of training, nutrition and study that today's players do.

By that same token, LT would not be the LT of today. He'd have a real job in the off season. He would not be training year round. He'd be eating steak every dinner and bacon and eggs every breakfast.

Greatness from different eras can only be judged by how the player dominated their time, what was their impact on the game, etc.

Great players will be great in any era, IMO.

 

[jay cee]

What a load of crap.



Old guys always say the old timers were better then "todays" players.


In 20 years guys will be saying Emmitt was the greatest ever despite what any RB in the NFL is doing at that time.


Whatever. No one, NO ONE, is "Right" here. It's all just opinions anyway.

Post of the day.

I remember when Payton set the rushing record. At the time, many of the sportswriters were saying that he may have the record, but he was not quite at the level Jim Brown and some of the other greats.

Like you said, I have always maintained that in the future, they will also change their tune on Smith. It's just human nature.

 

[ravidubey]

Walter Payton == Emmitt Smith.

Thus far in his career, Ladanian Tomlinson is playing like those guys, except he also has game-breaking speed. He's a monster, and if he stays durable he will be the best to ever play.