La'el Collins Thread - Cleared post 767; visited Cowboys - 05/06/15

[Stash]

Players even ones already in the league don't think to that level of detail. If they did, you would probably not see player Pro Bowl voting the equivalent of a popularity contest.

They think of themselves and where they fit in.

Because he has no choice in that scenario. Big difference there.

But you we referring to the team effectively guaranteeing him a starting role. If they drafted him in round 1, they're effecting doing exactly that. Especially when you're talking about replacing an undrafted free agent on a one year contract. There's not a more tenuous position on the entire line.

Again, big difference between committing in the draft to getting a player to compete versus trying to recruit that player, which is essentially what this is. Collins has all the choice in the matter and it would be a hard sell to tell him he would get the job. If drafted, his money probably gives him a leg up. Not the case here at all. Totally different.

For you, maybe. If what it takes is a guarantee of starting over Leary or Free, I'm totally fine with that. As I said, he'd have the same guarantee if he was drafted where his actual talent dictated.

It is very clear you are being hopeful as you have already admitted. But he is going to be making a business decision what is best for his future and your selling points are going to fall short because other teams can roll out a red carpet in comparison.

I don't see where or how anyone has said that. Nobody has provided a thoughtful, detailed counter proposal to the multiple examples I have provided.

The best I've seen is 'playing with his college buddies'.

 

[Galian Beast]

No. The difference is that Welker has chosen to play, regardless of Doctors advice. The Cowboys, if I am not mistaken, were actually interested in bringing Robinson back (for a price) but he did not pursue it. I think Robinson decided to hang it up. Now, who really knows, I could be dead wrong because I don't have all the facts but honestly, what difference? To me, they don't really have any bearing on the Collins situation.

Robinson wanted to play, no team would clear him.

 

[xwalker]

Cute, but another point is that he is likely going to want to go to a team that not only rolls out a starting opportunity but also at left tackle.

That is where he would get the biggest payday, not at right tackle on a team that down the road when he is due for his next contract will have to pay Frederick and Martin. There is only so much money to go around and he (or especially his agent) is going to look at that very hard.

Agree. I would want an opportunity to play LT. The issue with that is that it probably means going to a bad team. It does seem that players on a good team and/or great OLine get paid really well and often better than good players on a bad team and/or bad OLine.

 

[speedkilz88]

Agree. I would want an opportunity to play LT. The issue with that is that it probably means going to a bad team. It does seem that players on a good team and/or great OLine get paid really well and often better than good players on a bad team and/or bad OLine.

I don't think the Bucs or Dolphins are offering him a LT spot. Dolphins for sure are talking about moving their rookie RT Ju'Wuan James (1st) from last year to OG to make a spot for him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Robinson wanted to play, no team would clear him.

No team could clear him until a Doctor does it. That process can happen in a season. If Robinson really wanted to play, he would be in the league now if he wanted to do that. He elected to retire, rather then rehab and come back.

It doesn't really matter. His situation has nothing to do with Collins.

 

[Alexander]

They think of themselves and where they fit in.

Right. And fitting in also means where they can fit into the best circumstances for them and it is not just due to the privilege of being a Dallas Cowboy or plugging into the best OL. They will gravitate right to the situation that caters best to their needs. I fail to see where you are thinking like a player would. Sorry, you are thinking like a hopeful fan. "Why wouldn't he want to be a Cowboy?" There are tons of reasons why not, none of which you are willing to acknowledge.

But you we referring to the team effectively guaranteeing him a starting role. If they drafted him in round 1, they're effecting doing exactly that. Especially when you're talking about replacing an undrafted free agent on a one year contract. There's not a more tenuous position on the entire line.

At guard. What is more attractive about that than a team like Miami or Tampa Bay handing him the left tackle job?

For you, maybe. If what it takes is a guarantee of starting over Leary or Free, I'm totally fine with that. As I said, he'd have the same guarantee if he was drafted where his actual talent dictated.

But he was not drafted, so I fail to see what point you think you are making.

I don't see where or how anyone has said that. Nobody has provided a thoughtful, detailed counter proposal to the multiple examples I have provided.

There have been, you just choose figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and hum because it is not as hopeful as you want it to be.

The best I've seen is 'playing with his college buddies'.

If we were flying players to see him, you would suddenly believe in the strategy.

 

[Stash]

The teams courting him the hardest are the Giants, Dolphins, Buccaneers and Bills.

I wonder why that is. Oh yes, they are not exactly teams that have "set" starters at the moment across the OL. And as much as people assume Leary and Free are on shaky ground, they are a lot firmer than any of these teams' personnel in the group.

Really? How many years does Leary have left on his current deal?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

How about a short condensed gist of what is being said.

 

[speedkilz88]

Dophins
LT Branden Albert U/KC
LG Dallas Thomas 13/3 Jamil Douglas 15/4
C Mike Pouncey 11/1
RG Billy Turner 14/3
RT Ju'Wuan James 14/1

Bucs
LT Donovan Smith 15/2
LG Logan Mankins T/NE
C Evan Dietrich-Smith U/GB
RG Patrick Omameh P/SF Ali Marpet 15/2
RT Demar Dotson CF09 Kevin Pamphile 14/5

//edit - moved Dotson to RT, announced by TB today

 

[speedkilz88]

Really? How many years does Leary have left on his current deal?

He will be a restricted free agent next year.

 

[DBOY3141]

Dophins
LT Branden Albert U/KC
LG Dallas Thomas 13/3
C Mike Pouncey 11/1
RG Billy Turner 14/3
RT Ju'Wuan James 14/1

Bucs
LT Demar Dotson CF09 Donovan Smith 15/2
LG Logan Mankins T/NE
C Evan Dietrich-Smith U/GB
RG Patrick Omameh P/SF Ali Marpet 15/2
RT Kevin Pamphile 14/5

Bucs are a train wreck.

 

[Alexander]

Really? How many years does Leary have left on his current deal?

Once more, thinking to a level of detail that is highly unlikely.

These other teams have players in the middle of three and four year deals, but they are on shaky ground because they are replaceable.

Yet, he is going to go to the trouble of saying, I can just wait a year for Leary's deal to run out? It is about where he can go where even in worst case scenario, he starts, right now, sight unseen. Not a place where in a worse case scenario where he might have to compete.

He wants to go where he will play right now. The sooner he plays and shows his value, the farther along he is on his way to getting the contract money he lost by not getting drafted in the first round.

 

[Tabascocat]

How about a short condensed gist of what is being said.

basically defending him and why he wasn't drafted.

 

[Alexander]

Bucs are a train wreck.

They already moved Dotson to RT and handed Donovan Smith the starting LT tackle job. And they would hand it to Collins instead if he signed.

 

[iceberg]

How about a short condensed gist of what is being said.

he wants to go to miami.

 

[Silver N Blue]

nothing about actual interest though from Dallas

 

[Alexander]

nothing about actual interest though from Dallas

You should have known better than to take a story handed out by Rapoport and run with it.

 

[Galian Beast]

How about a short condensed gist of what is being said.

Basically broke down what his options are now as an UDFA.

He can potentially make more money than 1st round drafted players in his own draft class. 3 years guaranteed, maximum bonus, with a 4th year tender. Can renegotiate after 2 years.

Says that teams are pretty certain that he is innocent.

He wanted to meet with the police before the draft but the police said they weren't ready to meet with him.


I wouldn't have moved the thread, I think it warrants it's own thread as it breaks down a lot of things that we have to keep rehashing here.

 

[Stash]

Right. And fitting in also means where they can fit into the best circumstances for them and it is not just due to the privilege of being a Dallas Cowboy or plugging into the best OL. They will gravitate right to the situation that caters best to their needs. I fail to see where you are thinking like a player would. Sorry, you are thinking like a hopeful fan. "Why wouldn't he want to be a Cowboy?" There are tons of reasons why not, none of which you are willing to acknowledge.

Please provide them. If you gave any specifics rather than vague rebuttals, we could have a better dialogue and debate.

My key point would be joining an already successful young offensive line already receiving Pro Bowl accolades. If Collins merely played close to their level, he would be in that same conversation. Pro Bowls are contagious among successful offensive lines.

At guard. What is more attractive about that than a team like Miami or Tampa Bay handing him the left tackle job?

Because Miami just paid huge free agent money for theirs last year (Branden Albert), so he's not going anywhere and Tampa Bay just drafted theirs (Donovan Smith).

But he was not drafted, so I fail to see what point you think you are making.

The point is in the true measure of the value of the player rather than the circumstances.

There have been, you just choose figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and hum because it is not as hopeful as you want it to be.

Please point them out. But I do hope they're better than those Left Tackle examples you provided above.

If we were flying players to see him, you would suddenly believe in the strategy.

I don't disapprove of the strategy. But I would surely hope that the player made a more informed decision that just that!

 

[Silver N Blue]

You should have known better than to take a story handed out by Rapoport and run with it.

I didn't? I realize Dallas is not linked to this guy at all.