La'el Collins update

[waldoputty]

It not an isolated issue.

Is Collins/Cooper better than Green/Collins (Bell/Collins if Green injured)?

well a lot of it depends on cleary.
if he is really a decent swing tackle, then it does not matter that much.
if not, then green really should serve as the swing backup tackle given his injury history.

 

[xwalker]

well a lot of it depends on cleary.
if he is really a decent swing tackle, then it does not matter that much.
if not, then green really should serve as the swing backup tackle given his injury history.

I think Bell is above Cleary on the depth chart.

 

[waldoputty]

I think Bell is above Cleary on the depth chart.

oh u r right.
forgot.
in that case, i agree with your point about green / collins vs. collins / cooper

 

[Walker]

Can't have 5 super stars on the line $$$. Your going to have weak points here and there. Hope he pans out.

 

[Galian Beast]

He broke his leg in his rookie year in 2013. Struggled to overcome major injury in 2014 even though healthy.
In 2015, suffered knee, wrist and turf toe issue.
Good grief, he sounds like Green.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-englan...onathan-cooper-goes-down-at-patriots-practice

There is reason for some hope - it was looking up while he was with the patriots until an injury

"The No. 7 overall pick of the 2013 draft with the Arizona Cardinals, Cooper broke his leg in the third preseason game of his rookie season and has never truly been the same since. Overcoming that injury (and others) had been a challenge for him."

"It's just one of those things; you've worked hard and things just haven't seemed to fall your way," he told Sirius XM NFL Radio in June. "Honestly, it's more of a mental thing than anything else. I feel like the biggest thing is the actual fresh start with a new organization and being able, from this day forward, to rewrite my history and be a better player than I was before."

"Things seemed to be going well for Cooper, who had consistently been the team's top right guard in practice, until he was carted off Saturday after members of the athletic training staff were looking at his right foot."

"Cooper (6-foot-2, 310 pounds), who the Patriots acquired in the March trade involving pass rusher Chandler Jones, is dealing with a plantar fascia issue, according to NFL Network."

Furthermore, the Browns release was puzzling:
"The Cleveland Browns released guard Jonathan Cooper on Tuesday while reinstating guard Alvin Bailey from the suspended list. The move is curious because it breaks up an offensive line that has worked together the past two weeks and was showing signs of cohesion."

Not certain what your point was here. We all know his history here.

The question is can he overcome his a pattern of injuries and be the player people thought he could coming out of college?

He missed three games in three years while at North Carolina.

 

[Stash]

makes perfect sense. People forget the Giants were poised to take him and play him at Left Tackle from Day 1 before the murder reports were reported.

So to me its not an issue. I am sure he will be very good at Right Tackle, he has every single trait.

What has me worried is left guard. Ron Leary was the enforcer on this line. Go watch any game he played in he is the guy pushing and shoving after the whistle.

back in 2013 and 2014 Leary, Murray and witten were constantly barking at the other huddle and getting into it with defenders. I can't tell you how many times I watched murray and leary from my seat during commercial breaks just keep it going with the other huddle.

I think Leary was excellent and highly motivated. I keep seeing everyone get excited about Cooper and I don't get it. He is always hurt and never plays. I don't think they liked looney at guard last year either and his skill is in playing center and being the swing guy.

I really hope left guard doesn't become a problem here. The best unit on this team is the line and if it falters the team will also. People love to call this the best line in the league which I have no doubt it's among the best but when this season starts if we have a new right tackle who is learning the position and a glaring weakness at left guard we will not even have the best line in the division. That Washington line is excellent also.

I have to think much like 2013 when Doug Free played right guard in the spring then in the summer sporadically and against the bengals in the third preseason game that we will see a lot of left guard shuffling and collins possibly playing inside again a little if green is healthy just to see how that goes. Just like in 13 however I can't imagine collins actually plays guard during the season.

I wonder how long they will sit idle at guard if cooper and green are hurt since neither is ever healthy. The upside is finding a guard to help should not be as difficult as tackle, obviously.

One thing that may help you to feel a little better is that the team also has Byron Bell. And while I'm not crazy about him playing right tackle other than in an emergency, he played left guard pretty well in Tennessee. If Cooper doesn't work out or gets hurt, I think he's a nice fallback option.

 

[TheCount]

Can't have 5 super stars on the line $$$.

Isn't that exactly what they're trying to do?

 

[Stash]

Isn't that exactly what they're trying to do?

I don't see why they "can't".

They have been and are continuing to get some big money and in some cases bad contracts off of the books and will continue to do so.

Martin's contract will be a huge one, and rightfully so, but not every one of these linemen is a proven superstar and multi-time Pro Bowler. They're not all demanding, getting, or worth the same amount of money.

 

[John813]

I think Bell is above Cleary on the depth chart.

You think he stays at Tackle if Collins stays at RT?

Green and Cleary battle it out for the swing position and Bell goes to guard to backup Martin/Cooper along with Looney.

 

[Texas_Pete]

I'm sure that Jerry and the team will do everything they can within reason to keep Collins around for as long as they can. Unless his demands get crazy, I think they get a long term deal worked out.

Agreed. Jerry hasn't lost one player he wanted to keep. Collins will be no different, if he performs.

 

[Stash]

Agreed. Jerry hasn't lost one player he wanted to keep. Collins will be no different, if he performs.

And it's not like Collins will step up to the pay window demanding "what Zack Martin got".

At this point, he's a player proven to be good when he's played, and now he's working on a position change. Nobody will be expecting anyone to back up the money truck.

 

[noletime95]

Can free agency after three years even be negotiable given the CBA?

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Now if Martin and Beasley hadn't missed their blocks on that play, it could've actually gone somewhere.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

And it's not like Collins will step up to the pay window demanding "what Zack Martin got".

At this point, he's a player proven to be good when he's played, and now he's working on a position change. Nobody will be expecting anyone to back up the money truck.

As a tackle, we would have to pay Collins alot of money if he plays well, so a money truck might be needed.

I figure what could happen is they might want to see Collins succeed at tackle cause they don't want to have to pay 2 guards that much money in Collins and Martin.

Then get a cheap guard in the draft next year to replace Cooper or whatever face is there this season if they don't perform well at that position. A second round guard should be more than adequate between Smith and Frederick, giving us some cheap labor on the line along with the expensive guys.

I would rather do that than have signed Leary to a huge contract then have to think about Collins to a huge contract in a small timeframe along with Martin.

 

[Silver N Blue]

Dwight and I. Two man wolf pack.

Make it three been calling for this sonve last year at this time.

 

[Stash]

As a tackle, we would have to pay Collins alot of money if he plays well, so a money truck might be needed.

Not if we do it soon it won't. After this year, he will have one season of work outside, at best. Even if his play is outstanding, he still won't have the proven track record to be making huge contractual demands.

I figure what could happen is they might want to see Collins succeed at tackle cause they don't want to have to pay 2 guards that much money in Collins and Martin.

I think it's because They've got numbers at guard and see Collins' possible upside to replace Free. Doug Free was a finesse player, Collins has Erik Williams- like power potential. Instead of Free trying to wall off defenders, Collins is capable of driving them off the ball and destroying them.

Then get a cheap guard in the draft next year to replace Cooper or whatever face is there this season if they don't perform well at that position. A second round guard should be more than adequate between Smith and Frederick, giving us some cheap labor on the line along with the expensive guys.

Cooper himself might be that option. Given his previous track record, he's in no position to demand huge money either.

I would rather do that than have signed Leary to a huge contract then have to think about Collins to a huge contract in a small timeframe along with Martin.

It's possible that they could re-sign both Collins and Cooper for contracts equaling the same amounts Leary himself got over the next two to three years.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Not if we do it soon it won't. After this year, he will have one season of work outside, at best. Even if his play is outstanding, he still won't have the proven track record to be making huge contractual demands.

I think it's because They've got numbers at guard and see Collins' possible upside to replace Free. Doug Free was a finesse player, Collins has Erik Williams- like power potential. Instead of Free trying to wall off defenders, Collins is capable of driving them off the ball and destroying them.

Cooper himself might be that option. Given his previous track record, he's in no position to demand huge money either.

It's possible that they could re-sign both Collins and Cooper for contracts equaling the same amounts Leary himself got over the next two to three years.

Well Stephen is a chemical engineer, I am also. I'm just telling you how we think and its not about what your saying, only thing I don't like about Stephen is he is being too open cause of the effect of social media, but I respect the way he thinks.

I don't want the highest paid OL in the NFL, only to not be able to sign any of our D or if a free agent comes loose. Give me cheap labor at one position, let Cooper walk if he wants alot of money, guard is easier to replace. Harder to find a RT, I believe Collins would be quite a good RT, and would deserve quite a bit of money. He has alot of talent if consistent, and it will show if healthy.

I think Collins could get very close to Leary money if not more if he performs well, I do think you are underestimating what a move to tackle does for his paycheck. A line of Smith, Leary, Fred, Martin, and Collins sounds wonderful, except when you try to pay other people, and btw Leary is replaceable whereas Collins just has more talent and upside. Cheap labor through the draft has to be done, and a move of Collins to RT absolutely shows me that it is absolutely being thought about at the moment.

 

[lqmac1]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Colombo only a stud for us and didn't really play well for all of the teams he was previously on? I have a feeling Johnathan Cooper will be the same. Hopefully he can solidify our left guard position and Collins can do the same for RT.

 

[Stash]

Well Stephen is a chemical engineer, I am also. I'm just telling you how we think and its not about what your saying, only thing I don't like about Stephen is he is being too open cause of the effect of social media, but I respect the way he thinks.

I don't want the highest paid OL in the NFL, only to not be able to sign any of our D or if a free agent comes loose. Give me cheap labor at one position, let Cooper walk if he wants alot of money, guard is easier to replace. Harder to find a RT, I believe Collins would be quite a good RT, and would deserve quite a bit of money. He has alot of talent if consistent, and it will show if healthy.

I think Collins could get very close to Leary money if not more if he performs well, I do think you are underestimating what a move to tackle does for his paycheck.

And I think you're grossly overestimating the impact of one year either way. All of the other linemen who got paid huge money did so because they were proven, over multiple years. No matter how well either Collins or Cooper play this year, it will still be their first year of consistant, high-quality play. Nobody isn't going to pay them close to what the Pro Bowl talents get based off of that one year.

A line of Smith, Leary, Fred, Martin, and Collins sounds wonderful, except when you try to pay other people, and btw Leary is replaceable whereas Collins just has more talent and upside. Cheap labor through the draft has to be done, and a move of Collins to RT absolutely shows me that it is absolutely being thought about at the moment.

They currently have "cheap labor", two-fifths of their offensive line is "cheap labor".

And for the record, plenty of people are talking about a huge money contract for Elliott, despite the fact that he's still under contract for four more years and even then, there's no guarantee that they will ultimately decide to pay him or replace him when that time comes.

 

[John813]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Colombo only a stud for us and didn't really play well for all of the teams he was previously on? I have a feeling Johnathan Cooper will be the same. Hopefully he can solidify our left guard position and Collins can do the same for RT.

Yea. His career early on was ruined by injuries but we signed him a month or two after the Bears cut him. Then he flourished here. Then went to Miami but by then he was declining.