Laramey Tunsil & a $40 Million Dollar Offensive Line

[Stash]

You can disagree, but good teams don't do this. It's that simple.

You can try to believe it's "that simple" if you want. It may help you to self justify your position, but you haven't refuted any of the points that I made.

And no need to get your feathers ruffled.

 

[CowboyRoy]

26 sacks, not 6.........

6 last year is what I meant. That is not a pass rushing demon in my mind. How do you only have 6 sacks when you play for one of the best team in all of college? You should be steamrolling people all year.

 

[Stash]

I'm not a scout and I don't pretend to be. Is Bosa really not worth the 4th pick? Not really for me to decide. I cant see how a guy that has 6 sacks in college be considered a top pass rusher. Now what he is noted for is his versatility. Is that what we need? not in my book. We are kinda stuck. Gregory could be that pass rusher but we cant depend on him. Lawrence seems like the perfect RDE but that is what Bosa would play. I would move back or take Ramsey if he is there. We need play makers and Ramsey is a play maker.

Really? Where does 3 career interceptions from a defensive back say "playmaker"? If 6 sacks in college isn't "considered a top pass rusher", 3 picks for a career certainly isn't for a "playmaker" defensive back. It only furthers the point that there isn't a "playmaker" defensive player worthy of the #4 pick at all.

But seriously, you guys are talking about Ramsey not being there and a trade down not being there. I dont think all those scenarios are likely. Chances are that if for whatever reason San Diego takes Ramsey, teams will be salivating for a stud LT and trade up for him.

And I wouldn't beat the team up if they took the trade down offer. If it was a great one. Don't trade down just to trade down, or because Tunsil is the best player available there. GET VALUE! You suffered through a 4-12 wasted season for this opportunity. Don't just give it to someone else! And based on what other teams are getting for top picks, Jones and the Cowboys will look like fools if they don't. And no PR spin will wash away that stink!

Get great value with the trade, or get great value with the top prospect in the draft.

 

[Stash]

6 last year is what I meant. That is not a pass rushing demon in my mind. How do you only have 6 sacks when you play for one of the best team in all of college? You should be steamrolling people all year.

For the record, I thought it was only 5 last year.

 

[Biggems]

If T Crawford,Thornton or Lawrence tear a ACL then what.

our DL would still suck, like it did with them in there.

BTW, in the 3rd and 4th, take Javon Hargraves and Hassan Ridgeway......that will solidify the middle of our DL for years to come.

 

[mattjames2010]

NO, you said we should take BPA with no consideration involved. I was simply pointing out that there are already two teams that are not doing that. And they are paying a high price NOT to do that. Now granted those are franchise QB's. And if Tunsil is such a stud like you say, then people will be salivating to trade up for him if Ramsey is gone and we are on the clock.

My point is quite simple. If he is there and Ramsey and two QB's have been taken, then it is NOT the ideal situation. And you can bet they will be trying to trade out of the pick. AT #4, when you are rarely up here, you better use the pick wisely and it better be for a big need. Which as much as you like to imagine it is, Oline anywhere is not a big need. RT or not.

What other teams are doing that? Once again, because you're struggling still, Rams and Eagles had Wentz and Goff at the top of their boards. Tunsil is NOT their BPA, because franchise QB trumps that.

No it shouldn't only address a "big need", just stop already. Follow along: We don't control what prospects are there. All because you feel CB/Safety are our biggest needs DOES NOT make Ramsey more than what he is. He is still a CB/Safety with a lot of question marks in a weak draft class (At the top).

And yeah, Dallas will hope to trade back. They will hope to trade back even if it's just Ramsey and Bosa there, if they can move back and pick up some extra high picks and stay in the top 10-15, that's a great trade. But that's not what we are discussing, right now we are discussing the prospects that will be there at 4. Until you have a better argument to skip over taking the best available player in this draft that also fills a need for us, there's nothing else to discuss.

 

[KJJ]

We MUST address a NEED with this pick!

 

[davey999]

You can try to believe it's "that simple" if you want. It may help you to self justify your position, but you haven't refuted any of the points that I made.

And no need to get your feathers ruffled.

So we are OK making 3rd round picks (Green) backups? Unless we begin to develop our later round picks, this team will continue to be mediocre.

 

[mattjames2010]

So we are OK making 3rd round picks (Green) backups? Unless we begin to develop our later round picks, this team will continue to be mediocre.

Develop what? I'm sure we would hope to develop him, but he was a ghost last year. I liked him going into the draft, and even I forgot he was on our team.

Green should not be a factor anywhere in this draft. Where he was taken is irrelevant now, it's looking like a bad pick.

 

[Stash]

So we are OK making 3rd round picks (Green) backups? Unless we begin to develop our later round picks, this team will continue to be mediocre.

If that's what he is? Absolutely! I'd prefer that to forcing him into the lineup and weakening the best line in the league. It wasn't a bad thing when we had Jermey Parnell around just in case and he netted us a 4th Rd comp pick in his way out the door.

If Green develops (or is healthy enough to play), great! We have our swing tackle for 2017 and can release Doug Free rather than paying him $6.5 million next year.

No matter what, at this point Tunsil - even at pick #4 - would cost less in 2017 than Doug Free would.

 

[Stash]

Develop what? I'm sure we would hope to develop him, but he was a ghost last year. I liked him going into the draft, and even I forgot he was on our team.

Green should not be a factor anywhere in this draft. Where he was taken is irrelevant now, it's looking like a bad pick.

He's Jacob Rodgers until he shows something.

 

[Tabascocat]

I really don't want Tunsil because he is not a need even though he is a stud. The only good thing about getting him is it gives us insurance and options. What if Dallas can't sign all our lineman in the future or what if Smith or someone goes down?

I am all for BPA but this one is pushing it at #4. I am scared to trade down as well, Elliot probably won't make it out of the top 10.

We have to get a blue chipper in this not-so-deep draft IMO.

 

[mattjames2010]

I really don't want Tunsil because he is not a need even though he is a stud. The only good thing about getting him is it gives us insurance and options. What if Dallas can't sign all our lineman in the future or what if Smith or someone goes down?

I am all for BPA but this one is pushing it at #4. I am scared to trade down as well, Elliot probably won't make it out of the top 10.

We have to get a blue chipper in this not-so-deep draft IMO.

No, it gives you a starting RT for a decade. You want a blue chip prospect? That's Tunsil.

 

[Craig]

Dont want tunsil because the oline is already good. Wants elliott. Makes sense.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Really? Where does 3 career interceptions from a defensive back say "playmaker"? If 6 sacks in college isn't "considered a top pass rusher", 3 picks for a career certainly isn't for a "playmaker" defensive back. It only furthers the point that there isn't a "playmaker" defensive player worthy of the #4 pick at all.



And I wouldn't beat the team up if they took the trade down offer. If it was a great one. Don't trade down just to trade down, or because Tunsil is the best player available there. GET VALUE! You suffered through a 4-12 wasted season for this opportunity. Don't just give it to someone else! And based on what other teams are getting for top picks, Jones and the Cowboys will look like fools if they don't. And no PR spin will wash away that stink!

Get great value with the trade, or get great value with the top prospect in the draft.

Good point on Ramsey and like I said, I am not a scout. But I do reade his a ball hawk type of player. I simply cannot wrap my head around taking Tunsil. Diminishing returns at this point. At #4 you should be able to get value with any number of positions. If Ramsey is gone and Tunsil is sitting there, it may help us make a nice trade down. Other than that, I cant hope at all for seeing Tunsil there. Are you saying you would be jumping up and down to draft him? You cant be hoping for that.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No, it gives you a starting RT for a decade. You want a blue chip prospect? That's Tunsil.

Wow.................yippeee!!! a starting RT for a decade!!! Talk about sounding lame. Does that sound great to you or something?

 

[Stash]

Good point on Ramsey and like I said, I am not a scout. But I do reade his a ball hawk type of player.

I saw some type of a catch competition on Saturday (not sure what channel as I was out eating lunch at the time), but Ramsey actually outperformed the two notable wide receivers who competed before him. He definitely showed his abilities there. But just 3 interceptions over his career scares me. And a team that's so bad at forcing turnovers already doesn't impress me as a great pairing.

I simply cannot wrap my head around taking Tunsil. Diminishing returns at this point.

No problem. Opinions vary. That's what this place is all about. I on the other hand, see him as the last piece to shore up the line and eliminate any weak spot at all. And he would cost you less than Doug Free would cost you this year and next. Both a huge upgrade and a lower price. I see him providing an upgrade at right tackle, a backup option for Smith at left tackle, and a long term answer at tackle for the future.

At #4 you should be able to get value with any number of positions. If Ramsey is gone and Tunsil is sitting there, it may help us make a nice trade down. Other than that, I cant hope at all for seeing Tunsil there. Are you saying you would be jumping up and down to draft him? You cant be hoping for that.

Given the circumstances and the question marks surrounding virtually everybody - and seeing that drafting Elliott neither fills a true current need nor makes any sense from either a draft pick standpoint or a financial one - I would be just fine with the team drafting Tunsil.

Until a week ago, he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft to Tennessee and everybody thought it was the perfect move. Now, suddenly he might be available to Dallas and people are slamming on the brakes saying "whoa!"

Again, anyone who has voiced opinion against Tunsil have repeatedly chosen to then ignore the situation with Doug Free and his age, history of injuries, and salary. They either try to fluff it off by saying they "don't care" about the money (a lame excuse and knew that people in the real world have to consider), or they point to Chaz Green, who has done nothing or shown nothing so far to have anyone think he might be any sort of answer.

How detrimental would it be to this 'Great Wall' if Free is out of the picture and Green struggles? Suddenly, opposing defenses have a clear weakness to exploit. Some people also think they can just shift linemen there while not missing a beat either. Ignorant of the facts.

I'd be happy with a trade down at a good level of return, but I'd be happy getting the draft's top prospect as well.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Currently we rank about 20th with money spent per offensive line in the league and it represents about 14% of our cap, that is about to change with or without drafting Tunsil. With the Rams moving up, Tunsil one of the best players in the draft may slide. The question is whether drafting Laremy Tunsil is too much talent and money allocated in one place. Let's take a closer look...

If we fast forward several years and resign Zach, Fred and L.Collins we are looking at APPROXIMATELY a $36 million dollar O-Line without Tunsil. With Tunsil it becomes about a $40 Million dollar line at least for the first five years of Tunsil's contract. Can we afford it? Im not sure but it looks like we will be spending 35Mill or 40Mill either way. With the cap going up and Romo going away in 2019 or sooner, it is possible.

In comparison right now the top 5 teams spending on the O-line is as follows.

2016
Minnesota Vikings $39,600,000
Oakland Raiders $37,500,000
Philadelphia $34,200,000
Pitts Steelers $31,900,000
Houston Tex $30,000,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/

We would most likely become the highest paid offensive line in the league by a few million but we would've amassed more talent on the offensive line than the league has ever seen. I'm not a salary cap guru and i'm not sure how long you can keep restructuring Tyrone Smith, so I may be off some. I have "estimated" the cap hits based on the best players at their positions. On the flip-side we may be able to save on new these contracts if we set up T.Smith type deals with Frederick, Collins and Martin.

2016 Dallas Cowboys
TyroneSmith 6,800,000
Doug Free 5,500,000
Zach Martin 2,500,000
Frederick 2,200,000
R. Leary 2,200,000
L. Collins 550,000
Backups 2,000,000
Total 19,555,000

2018 PJ (estimates based on best in league)
Tyrone Smith 9,000,000 (restructured)
Frederick 6,500,000
L Collins 7,500,000
Z Martin 9,000,000
Tunsil 5,000,000 (1st 5 years)
Backup 4,000,000
Total 40,000,000

I don't see why we would draft Tunsil. Do we move on from Free? Can Tunsil slide inside and replace Leary? Don't think so and even if so, you don't draft a guard at #4. Tunsil isn't replacing Smith, and I think Smith has a brighter future than Tunsil does. If Tunsil is the best player available and there is sufficient demand, I'd trade down.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Tyron tears an ACL in camp.

Now what?

We draft Tunsil.
Tyron doesn't get injured at camp.
We now have the #4 overall pick riding the bench.

 

[LittleD]

I saw some type of a catch competition on Saturday (not sure what channel as I was out eating lunch at the time), but Ramsey actually outperformed the two notable wide receivers who competed before him. He definitely showed his abilities there. But just 3 interceptions over his career scares me. And a team that's so bad at forcing turnovers already doesn't impress me as a great pairing.



No problem. Opinions vary. That's what this place is all about. I on the other hand, see him as the last piece to shore up the line and eliminate any weak spot at all. And he would cost you less than Doug Free would cost you this year and next. Both a huge upgrade and a lower price. I see him providing an upgrade at right tackle, a backup option for Smith at left tackle, and a long term answer at tackle for the future.



Given the circumstances and the question marks surrounding virtually everybody - and seeing that drafting Elliott neither fills a true current need nor makes any sense from either a draft pick standpoint or a financial one - I would be just fine with the team drafting Tunsil.

Until a week ago, he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft to Tennessee and everybody thought it was the perfect move. Now, suddenly he might be available to Dallas and people are slamming on the brakes saying "whoa!"

Again, anyone who has voiced opinion against Tunsil have repeatedly chosen to then ignore the situation with Doug Free and his age, history of injuries, and salary. They either try to fluff it off by saying they "don't care" about the money (a lame excuse and knew that people in the real world have to consider), or they point to Chaz Green, who has done nothing or shown nothing so far to have anyone think he might be any sort of answer.

How detrimental would it be to this 'Great Wall' if Free is out of the picture and Green struggles? Suddenly, opposing defenses have a clear weakness to exploit. Some people also think they can just shift linemen there while not missing a beat either. Ignorant of the facts.

I'd be happy with a trade down at a good level of return, but I'd be happy getting the draft's top prospect as well.

Hey Stash, we agree...now that has to stop! I like Tunsil too but, I've read from about 15 sites and looked at his tape and I think
his best position is LT. He does not appear that strong on the run though he looks great blocking for the QB. I think he might
be out of position if we take him for a RT and he can't open holes in the run game. I actually think Collins would make a great RT because
he can definitely open the holes. As for Zeke...I've been on him for months and it doesn't bother me a bit if we take him at #4.

I heard Bosa may have tested positive for dope at the combine and could be dropping on many teams boards including the Cowboys.
Ramsey is a safety for sure cause he can't turn his hips and follow the pass on the deep ball. He does best coming towards the line.