Laramey Tunsil & a $40 Million Dollar Offensive Line

[Stash]

Im all for BPA, but not an another lineman. I would be with you at any other position besides Oline. NO ONE takes Oline 4 out of 5 years with their first round pick. No one. That would be finding a new way to NOT build a team.

Nobody has the same opportunity!

We're not going out of our way to draft these players, the circumstances are lining up for us.

Did we move up to draft Smith? Nope. He was there at our selection and we took him.

Did we trade up for Frederick? No. In fact we traded down and got the player.

Did we trade up for Martin? No again. In fact, he was about Option E on our draft board.

Collins was a gift from heaven for us after the poor guy's unjustified draft situation.

And now we wouldn't be reaching at all for Tunsil either.

He would be there for the taking, and one has to wonder if it wasn't fate.

 

[Stash]

There hasn't been a single hint that Collins will ever be at RT. Our staff seems to want him at guard. Another discussion that should have ended months ago.

All evidence shows that they've gone out of their way not to play him at tackle. Easily researched.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Agreed and not to mention, Collins may end up getting that starting gig at RT eventually.

Or we move the pro bowl first round pick at guard to RT. Didnt we resign the guard that started for us last year. The guy that was starting before he got hurt? He could easily start again.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It doesn't matter if you think we will be fine for another year. We discussing NOW and who the prospects are at 4. The likely players there are 4 that are projected top 5: Bosa, Ramsey, Jack (Though he is sliding), and Tunsil.

As I said, I DO NOT CARE if you feel RT is a lesser need than DE/CB/Safety, RT is a need regardless. Tunsil is considered by most scouts to be the best prospect at his position, up until the Rams trade, he was projected to be the first player off the board in most mock drafts. So it comes down to this: You discuss PROSPECTS. New prospects aren't randomly going to pop up in the next 7 days, you work with what is there. If Tunsil is there at 4, that means Bosa or Ramsey was taken. Tunsil would EASILY be the best prospect at 4 and RT is a need. So not only are we filling a need, we are getting the best prospect in the entire draft.

The rest of what you are saying is nonsense after this being explained to you. This discussion should be over, but you'll still attempt to argue.

Not it isnt a need. We have Free and a 3rd rounder backing him up that hasnt even played yet. And we could move either guard to play RT. Its is one of the LEAST needs on the team.

When you have your starting DE's out for 4 games that is called a need. When you have scrubs playing corner and safety, that is a need.

Ramsey all day long at 4 if he is there.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Partly that, partly because I think getting what is widely-believed to be the draft's top player at #4 overall does make sense.

I'm not hung up on LT or RT, both are important. And if one got hurt, the other is capable of replacing him without the line falling apart.

I understand it's not the 'glaring hole' like at the defensive end position, but I also understand that while Bosa is a good player, Tunsil is a great one.

At #4, I prefer great to good. I'll get good in round 2 and later!

Now if you were saying Tunsil over Bosa I might be with you. But I would do these moves before Tunsil.

1. Ramsey
2. Trade down

 

[CowboyRoy]

Nobody has the same opportunity!

We're not going out of our way to draft these players, the circumstances are lining up for us.

Did we move up to draft Smith? Nope. He was there at our selection and we took him.

Did we trade up for Frederick? No. In fact we traded down and got the player.

Did we trade up for Martin? No again. In fact, he was about Option E on our draft board.

Collins was a gift from heaven for us after the poor guy's unjustified draft situation.

And now we wouldn't be reaching at all for Tunsil either.

He would be there for the taking, and one has to wonder if it wasn't fate.

Yah, but he is our least need on the entire team. I dont think you can overlook that. But like I said, I probably wouldnt take Bosa over him. If Ramsey is there I take Ramsey or trade down.

 

[mattjames2010]

Now if you were saying Tunsil over Bosa I might be with you. But I would do these moves before Tunsil.

1. Ramsey
2. Trade down

Your second option may not even present itself. Actually, I'm going to out on a limb here and say our butts are stuck at 4. So it's Ramsey/Bosa/Tunsil, and something tells me if Tunsil is still there, Ramsey is gone. So, Tunsil it is.

 

[mattjames2010]

Not it isnt a need. We have Free and a 3rd rounder backing him up that hasnt even played yet. And we could move either guard to play RT. Its is one of the LEAST needs on the team.

When you have your starting DE's out for 4 games that is called a need. When you have scrubs playing corner and safety, that is a need.

Ramsey all day long at 4 if he is there.

We don't have "scrubs" playing corner, we have underwhelming players at CB. You could argue CB isn't an IMMEDIATE need and we could survive one season without it. We have a safety position that needs to be addressed sure, but Jones is moving to FS most likely. So, Ramsey would need to be a CB for us.

Once again, because it's not getting through to you: DE IS a bigger need than RT, I guess i needed to straight out tell you that. But we are not discussing what is a bigger need, we are discussing what prospects are available at 4. If there was Clowney-like prospect at 4, yes I'd want him over Tunsil. But there isn't, there is Bosa who has question marks on and off the field.

Let me also put this out there: I am NOT against drafting Bosa or Ramsey. But the mindset of "Well, we have 4 other good lineman" or "What about the cap in 4 years?" is not a valid reason to pass on a player that can give you a decade worth of high level play.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Your second option may not even present itself. Actually, I'm going to out on a limb here and say our butts are stuck at 4. So it's Ramsey/Bosa/Tunsil, and something tells me if Tunsil is still there, Ramsey is gone. So, Tunsil it is.

Well..........if Tunsil is the best guy then why would San Diego pass on him if they also have a need?

You are talking hypotheticals here. So if San Diego takes Ramsey and there is no way we can trade down and our options are Bosa or Tunsil? First of all that would really really suck. Talk about worst case scenario. I dont think Bosa is worthy at all. I would probably take Tunsil. But I would NOT be happy about it. Well, at least we would be picking in the top 10 again.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We don't have "scrubs" playing corner, we have underwhelming players at CB. You could argue CB isn't an IMMEDIATE need and we could survive one season without it. We have a safety position that needs to be addressed sure, but Jones is moving to FS most likely. So, Ramsey would need to be a CB for us.

Once again, because it's not getting through to you: DE IS a bigger need than RT, I guess i needed to straight out tell you that. But we are not discussing what is a bigger need, we are discussing what prospects are available at 4. If there was Clowney-like prospect at 4, yes I'd want him over Tunsil. But there isn't, there is Bosa who has question marks on and off the field.

Let me also put this out there: I am NOT against drafting Bosa or Ramsey. But the mindset of "Well, we have 4 other good lineman" or "What about the cap in 4 years?" is not a valid reason to pass on a player that can give you a decade worth of high level play.

No you cant. You cannot argue that corner is NOT an immediate need. both starting outside corners are not quality. Scandric is our slot corner. You need better corners to win it.........sorry. Both corners need to be replaced.

Now AGAIN.......if you are making this a conversation about Bosa or Tunsil then that is a different story. But you were acting like RT is a big need and we should take him no matter what simply because he is best available.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We don't have "scrubs" playing corner, we have underwhelming players at CB. You could argue CB isn't an IMMEDIATE need and we could survive one season without it. We have a safety position that needs to be addressed sure, but Jones is moving to FS most likely. So, Ramsey would need to be a CB for us.

Once again, because it's not getting through to you: DE IS a bigger need than RT, I guess i needed to straight out tell you that. But we are not discussing what is a bigger need, we are discussing what prospects are available at 4. If there was Clowney-like prospect at 4, yes I'd want him over Tunsil. But there isn't, there is Bosa who has question marks on and off the field.

Let me also put this out there: I am NOT against drafting Bosa or Ramsey. But the mindset of "Well, we have 4 other good lineman" or "What about the cap in 4 years?" is not a valid reason to pass on a player that can give you a decade worth of high level play.

Ramsey is said to possibly be the best player in this draft as well. If Ramsey and Tunsil are there, I am taking Ramsey. No question about it.

 

[Stash]

Now if you were saying Tunsil over Bosa I might be with you. But I would do these moves before Tunsil.

1. Ramsey
2. Trade down

I can agree with option #2 if it's at a good value.

This team now needs multiple defensive ends and trading down gives them more ammunition to fill that need.

And I'm not jumping off a bridge if they end up drafting Ramsey, just please play him at the position to maximize his strengths!

 

[Stash]

Yah, but he is our least need on the entire team. I dont think you can overlook that. But like I said, I probably wouldnt take Bosa over him. If Ramsey is there I take Ramsey or trade down.

No, I think it's a measurement of needs throughout the roster, and matching that up with the potential upgrade the rookie player can provide.

 

[mattjames2010]

No you cant. You cannot argue that corner is NOT an immediate need. both starting outside corners are not quality. Scandric is our slot corner. You need better corners to win it.........sorry. Both corners need to be replaced.

Now AGAIN.......if you are making this a conversation about Bosa or Tunsil then that is a different story. But you were acting like RT is a big need and we should take him no matter what simply because he is best available.

Our RT is not "quality", he's a RT that has been battling injury and will be out of the league soon. Yes, I would like to upgrade from Carr and Claiborne, but our pass defense did just fine last year outside of turnovers. So you have Ramsey, who seems to be a better safety prospect than corner. But is he a SS? I don't see it. So, do we put him at FS and move Jones to corner...where he struggled? See what's happening here? A lot of questions coming up about Ramsey.

No, read back through my posts and see where I made it seem RT is a big need. I said it's a need, even so, it will be a "big need" if Free drops or when he hangs it up in a couple years. Even then, Free is someone we need to upgrade from.

You are not presenting any valid arguments against addressing the RT position early. You came in thinking we can afford to ignore it, we can't. Seeing as how we went with Green in the third last year, it seems the coaching staff agrees that's a position that needs to be addressed.

 

[mattjames2010]

Ramsey is said to possibly be the best player in this draft as well. If Ramsey and Tunsil are there, I am taking Ramsey. No question about it.

"Best player in the draft" doesn't have as many question marks as Ramsey has. And I'm a big Ramsey defender, he IS NOT the best player in the draft. Tunsil is, and if you want to try and debate that, attempt. I'll show you countless scouts that disagree with you on this.

 

[mattjames2010]

Well..........if Tunsil is the best guy then why would San Diego pass on him if they also have a need?

You are talking hypotheticals here. So if San Diego takes Ramsey and there is no way we can trade down and our options are Bosa or Tunsil? First of all that would really really suck. Talk about worst case scenario. I dont think Bosa is worthy at all. I would probably take Tunsil. But I would NOT be happy about it. Well, at least we would be picking in the top 10 again.

They most likely won't pass on him. Tunsil should be a Charger.

I don't care if you're happy about it, write up your "This draft sucked!" thread now just in case. Tunsil, Ramsey, and Bosa are quality players to be choosing from; two of them have question marks and one of them is expected to give a team 10 years of solid play.

And no **** it's hypothetical, it's the NFL draft we are talking about.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No, I think it's a measurement of needs throughout the roster, and matching that up with the potential upgrade the rookie player can provide.

Im not seeing the impact. The line is already the best in the league. Our Dline is probably the worst in the league. I dont see how One more first round pick on the line makes us that much better. A stud at a position of need would do that with more success. Albeit maybe not Bosa.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Our RT is not "quality", he's a RT that has been battling injury and will be out of the league soon. Yes, I would like to upgrade from Carr and Claiborne, but our pass defense did just fine last year outside of turnovers. So you have Ramsey, who seems to be a better safety prospect than corner. But is he a SS? I don't see it. So, do we put him at FS and move Jones to corner...where he struggled? See what's happening here? A lot of questions coming up about Ramsey.

No, read back through my posts and see where I made it seem RT is a big need. I said it's a need, even so, it will be a "big need" if Free drops or when he hangs it up in a couple years. Even then, Free is someone we need to upgrade from.

You are not presenting any valid arguments against addressing the RT position early. You came in thinking we can afford to ignore it, we can't. Seeing as how we went with Green in the third last year, it seems the coaching staff agrees that's a position that needs to be addressed.

Our pass defense was fine last year? Wow!!! Ok, never mind no use even having a conversation if you think that.

Free has been solid and although I hated the 3rd round tackle pick he needs to show if he can do anything. Sorry, the Oline is our strength and taking the 4th pick and adding it to 4 first round picks is complete overkill. Its called the law of diminishing returns. When you have an entire defense, QB, and RB that need big time upgrades to use a 4th pick to further solidify the best line in football just doesnt make any sense. Now the only thing you have working for you in this regard is Stasheroo appears to agree with you. And from what I have seen he knows the Cowboys and understands football better than anyone on here. Even still, I cannot get my head around taking ANOTHER O lineman with this pick. Unless you are going to trade an Olineman for something of extreme quality. And who can bet on that?

 

[CowboyRoy]

"Best player in the draft" doesn't have as many question marks as Ramsey has. And I'm a big Ramsey defender, he IS NOT the best player in the draft. Tunsil is, and if you want to try and debate that, attempt. I'll show you countless scouts that disagree with you on this.

Im not debating that at all. But go out and see some of the articles written about how dumb it would be to take tunsil with our pick. And for all your evidence or support of taking the pick, then that same reasoning would work double for San Diego as they actually have a big need there. So if you think it would be good for us it would be incredible for San Diego. By all accounts by you, he would never get by San Diego. So this is really a moot conversation.

 

[CowboyRoy]

They most likely won't pass on him. Tunsil should be a Charger.

I don't care if you're happy about it, write up your "This draft sucked!" thread now just in case. Tunsil, Ramsey, and Bosa are quality players to be choosing from; two of them have question marks and one of them is expected to give a team 10 years of solid play.

And no **** it's hypothetical, it's the NFL draft we are talking about.

Amazing how he is the best player in the draft yet two teams have given up two years worth of top pics NOT to take him. To take two other guys that were considered rated lower than him. Now why would that be? Gee, maybe because they have big time needs somewhere else. Wow, what a concept.