Late and Close: Career QB Comparison

[Idgit]

I honestly don't think Moss in Oak was the same Moss in Min. It seemed like Moss didn't want to be in Oakland, and we all know how that works out ... And if I'm not mistaken he was injured most of his time there.

Check out Moss's career splits on natural grass sometime. He was a better player, by far, on turf.

 

[percyhoward]

I'm trying to isolate what I think is the biggest reason for Romo's high rating, and to successfully communicate how Beamonesque is the number of big plays we're talking about here.

Completions of 50+ yards
4th qtr or OT, 8-point margin or less
Romo 17 comp 1031 yd 12 td
Brees 9 comp 515 yd 4 td
Favre 7 comp 453 yd 4 td
EManning 7 comp 448 yd 5 td
Rodgers 7 comp 429 yd 3 td
Green 7 comp 419 yd 4 td
Culpepper 7 comp 396 yd 4 td

There are great disparities in the number of attempts for each QB, so a fair comparison should use percentages.

Completions of 50+ yards
4th qtr or OT, 8-point margin or less
per 100 attempts
Romo 2.79 (every 35.8 att)
Rodgers 1.89 (every 53.0 att)
Green 1.66 (every 60.3 att)
Culpepper 1.55 (every 64.6 att)
EManning 1.27 (every 78.7 att)
Brees 1.10 (every 90.4 att)
Favre 0.82 (every 121.4 att)

Big plays involve high risk. Their late-and-close INT percentages.
Rodgers 2.2
Romo 2.5
Brees 3.3
Culpepper 3.5
EManning 4.5
Green 5.0
Favre 5.1

It's a combination of many big plays and few mistakes.

 

[percyhoward]

When your QB's passes travel less than ten yds to get to the receiver, while others are throwing deep stuff on a regular basis, it's easy to look grand on the stat sheet.

Again, yards per attempt in these situations.

Romo 8.6
Culpepper 8.1
EManning 8.0
Roethlisberger 7.6
Brees 7.5

 

[Idgit]

I'm trying to isolate what I think is the biggest reason for Romo's high rating, and to successfully communicate how Beamonesque is the number of big plays we're talking about here.

Completions of 50+ yards
4th qtr or OT, 8-point margin or less
Romo 17 comp 1031 yd 12 td
Brees 9 comp 515 yd 4 td
Favre 7 comp 453 yd 4 td
EManning 7 comp 448 yd 5 td
Rodgers 7 comp 429 yd 3 td
Green 7 comp 419 yd 4 td
Culpepper 7 comp 396 yd 4 td

There are great disparities in the number of attempts for each QB, so a fair comparison should use percentages.

Completions of 50+ yards
4th qtr or OT, 8-point margin or less
per 100 attempts
Romo 2.79 (every 35.8 att)
Rodgers 1.89 (every 53.0 att)
Green 1.66 (every 60.3 att)
Culpepper 1.55 (every 64.6 att)
EManning 1.27 (every 78.7 att)
Brees 1.10 (every 90.4 att)
Favre 0.82 (every 121.4 att)

Big plays involve high risk. Their late-and-close INT percentages.
Rodgers 2.2
Romo 2.5
Brees 3.3
Culpepper 3.5
EManning 4.5
Green 5.0
Favre 5.1

It's a combination of many big plays and few mistakes.

This stuff makes you feel like, if we could only play middling pass defense, even, the last three seasons, we'd be contenders. It's really frustrating that we've been unable to fix, or even improve it, during that time. I had high hopes that the takeaways would solve the problem--and they've definitely helped. It sucks that they have to be accompanied by the disintegration of the DL and with some of our early difficulty with the LBs adjusting to the new scheme in coverage.

 

[Risen Star]

This stuff makes you feel like, if we could only play middling pass defense, even, the last three seasons, we'd be contenders. It's really frustrating that we've been unable to fix, or even improve it, during that time. I had high hopes that the takeaways would solve the problem--and they've definitely helped. It sucks that they have to be accompanied by the disintegration of the DL and with some of our early difficulty with the LBs adjusting to the new scheme in coverage.

You should have known a team with the cast of Rent filling their DL depth chart wasn't going to fix anything about their defense.

 

[Idgit]

You should have known a team with the cast of Rent filling their DL depth chart wasn't going to fix anything about their defense.

I remember hearing an awful lot during the offseason about how the team had zero DL depth. That notion was proven badly wrong almost immediately. The fact that we've done what we have playing 3rd and 4th stringers is pretty amazing, and I don't remember many posters coming up with their mea culpas for making fun of Kiffin and Marinellis' assessment back in training camp.

What stinks is that the significant talent we had on the DL to start the season has been hampered, lost for the season, or, in Ratliff's case, should not have been relied on in the first place.

Our coverage issues haven't been solely the fault of the DL, anyway, though. It's been a combination of multiple sustained DL injuries, poor coverage from the LBs, and questionable S play in the passing game. Even with the DL healthy in recent years, we've had the same problems because we've had the same personnel limitations. We need better S play in coverage, and we need to replenish the DL depth which will be drained badly this offseason.

 

[Direwolf63]

Just to add to that, playing zone coverage schemes with man-to-man DB's doesn't help. Especially when you can't get to the QB consistently.

 

[Risen Star]

I remember hearing an awful lot during the offseason about how the team had zero DL depth. That notion was proven badly wrong almost immediately. The fact that we've done what we have playing 3rd and 4th stringers is pretty amazing, and I don't remember many posters coming up with their mea culpas for making fun of Kiffin and Marinellis' assessment back in training camp.

Wow. Do you really believe what you wrote?

Hey, gang....LOL @ you for questioning our DL talent. That notion was immediately blown out of the water with our amazing performance this year.

Ya know, the amazing performance.

Of our defense.

What?


Sometimes when you insist on always supporting your team no matter what you have to say some very, very ridiculous things.

What stinks is that the significant talent we had on the DL to start the season has been hampered, lost for the season, or, in Ratliff's case, should not have been relied on in the first place.

Spencer and Ware were hurt. Ratliff has been for years. Only an incompetent GM like Jerry Jones would rely on having all three.

And even if we had all three, we'd still have complete crap behind them. We needed DL badly in the offseason. We just didn't have a talent evaluator in the building to notice.

 

[Risen Star]

BTW, if anybody doesn't remember anyone complaining about the glaring lack of DL talent on this team back in the spring, then they didn't read me.

 

[dstovall5]

I'm trying to isolate what I think is the biggest reason for Romo's high rating, and to successfully communicate how Beamonesque is the number of big plays we're talking about here.

Completions of 50+ yards
4th qtr or OT, 8-point margin or less
Romo 17 comp 1031 yd 12 td
Brees 9 comp 515 yd 4 td
Favre 7 comp 453 yd 4 td
EManning 7 comp 448 yd 5 td
Rodgers 7 comp 429 yd 3 td
Green 7 comp 419 yd 4 td
Culpepper 7 comp 396 yd 4 td

There are great disparities in the number of attempts for each QB, so a fair comparison should use percentages.

Completions of 50+ yards
4th qtr or OT, 8-point margin or less
per 100 attempts
Romo 2.79 (every 35.8 att)
Rodgers 1.89 (every 53.0 att)
Green 1.66 (every 60.3 att)
Culpepper 1.55 (every 64.6 att)
EManning 1.27 (every 78.7 att)
Brees 1.10 (every 90.4 att)
Favre 0.82 (every 121.4 att)

Big plays involve high risk. Their late-and-close INT percentages.
Rodgers 2.2
Romo 2.5
Brees 3.3
Culpepper 3.5
EManning 4.5
Green 5.0
Favre 5.1

It's a combination of many big plays and few mistakes.

Those really are mind blowing numbers. Not only does he connect on the deep ball the most in those situations, but he also does it with minimal risk. Amazing stuff as usual.

 

[Idgit]

Wow. Do you really believe what you wrote?

Hey, gang....LOL @ you for questioning our DL talent. That notion was immediately blown out of the water with our amazing performance this year.

Ya know, the amazing performance.

Of our defense.

What?

This isn't the thread for this discussion, and I'm sure we'll get into it plenty soon enough. But I said 'depth' and not 'talent,' and, yeah, there were a ton of you guys dead wrong on the quality of our DL depth. Our backups have played really well for us under difficult circumstances, just as the coaches indicated they would while you guys were chuckling about there not being enough seats in the DL meetings.

Sometimes when you insist on always supporting your team no matter what you have to say some very, very ridiculous things.

This, in the context of a post of mine lamenting the quality of the pass defense. At some point you're going to have to learn to make the important distinction between defending the team against silly criticism and defending it against any criticism. I'm perfectly happy to criticize the team for not fixing the problems that actually keep us from winning games against other good teams. That's not the same thing as lamenting market-rate contracts to CBs and complaining about not spending premium draft picks on positions best left filled in middle rounds or free agency.

Anyway, backing out of this now because percy's done a great job on this thread, and I don't want it to become about anything other than what it was intended to be. My original point was only that we get really effective passing from our QB, and it's a shame that we can't pair that with even moderately successful pass defense because, if we could, this team would be a lot closer to it's goals.

 

[Risen Star]

This isn't the thread for this discussion, and I'm sure we'll get into it plenty soon enough. But I said 'depth' and not 'talent,' and, yeah, there were a ton of you guys dead wrong on the quality of our DL depth. Our backups have played really well for us under difficult circumstances, just as the coaches indicated they would while you guys were chuckling about there not being enough seats in the DL meetings.

Oh, okay. Well point me in the direction of the thread where I can blow your comment about our DL out of the water.

Depth. Talent. I don't care what you call it, this is possibly the worst defensive performance in team history and yet you sit there calling it amazing and praising the coaching and depth of the talent.

Jerry loves you.

This, in the context of a post of mine lamenting the quality of the pass defense. At some point you're going to have to learn to make the important distinction between defending the team against silly criticism and defending it against any criticism. I'm perfectly happy to criticize the team for not fixing the problems that actually keep us from winning games against other good teams. That's not the same thing as lamenting market-rate contracts to CBs and complaining about not spending premium draft picks on positions best left filled in middle rounds or free agency.

Anyway, backing out of this now because percy's done a great job on this thread, and I don't want it to become about anything other than what it was intended to be. My original point was only that we get really effective passing from our QB, and it's a shame that we can't pair that with even moderately successful pass defense because, if we could, this team would be a lot closer to it's goals.

I'd back away too if I were you.

The second a fan tells me not to complain about irrelevant impact-less cornerbacks signing 50 million dollar deals while your two starting Gs are best filled on the cheap, I know to never take that person seriously when the subject's football. Either he doesn't know what he's talking about or he does and simply can't criticize his own team. Either way he's a waste of time.

The Cowboys could have literally flushed that money down the toilet and fielded the same sorry (amazing) defense they have this year. They could have forfeited their 1st and 2nd round picks in the 2012 draft and not been effected in the slightest. This is the impact you get with those moves.

Meanwhile, add one legitimate talent at C and it's immediately noticeable.

Which gets me back to my original point. If you expected the defense to do well this year, that was your mistake. Anybody who knew these players and understood the game knew way ahead of time that they had no shot to be a good defense. Too many JAGs up front for that to ever be possible.

 

[Idgit]

...Which gets me back to my original point. If you expected the defense to do well this year, that was your mistake. Anybody who knew these players and understood the game knew way ahead of time that they had no shot to be a good defense. Too many JAGs up front for that to ever be possible.

Wasn't a big fan of the Kiffin hire--I thought it was weird--and my biggest concern going into the season was the defense. Also, I wanted to draft DL in the first round. You misremember most of my arguments because you've decided for some reason I'm always positive about everything.

And I'm obviously not calling the performance of the defense 'amazing.' I'm being reasonable about what expectations should be for the DL depth. And I'm right.

Anyway...good thread, when it's on it's original topic, right?

 

[cowboysooner]

Percy Howard is the best poster on this forum.

It's to the point now where I'm about to send him a "Do you like me? Yes No .... Circle one" DM.

Yep

 

[alicetooljam]

What were Romo's stats in the last 16 games DECEMBER games? I know I saw this somewhere but cant find it...another reason I was looking for the search function earlier....

 

[percyhoward]

What were Romo's stats in the last 16 games DECEMBER games?

359 of 549 4342 yd 34 td 8 int 104.1

In December and January games since 2009, Romo has a 100+ rating 12 times. The Cowboys are 6-6 in those games.

During that time, when PManning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Flacco, Smith, Dalton, Schaub, and Kaepernick go over 100+ in December and January, those 10 quarterbacks have combined to lose 6 games.

Their teams are 104-6.

PM me next time though.

 

[tecolote]

359 of 549 4342 yd 34 td 8 int 104.1

In December and January games since 2009, Romo has a 100+ rating 12 times. The Cowboys are 6-6 in those games.

During that time, when PManning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Flacco, Smith, Dalton, Schaub, and Kaepernick go over 100+ in December and January, those 10 quarterbacks have combined to lose 6 games.

Their teams are 104-6.

PM me next time though.

There are not enough likes to give for a post like this.

 

[alicetooljam]

359 of 549 4342 yd 34 td 8 int 104.1

In December and January games since 2009, Romo has a 100+ rating 12 times. The Cowboys are 6-6 in those games.

During that time, when PManning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Flacco, Smith, Dalton, Schaub, and Kaepernick go over 100+ in December and January, those 10 quarterbacks have combined to lose 6 games.

Their teams are 104-6.

PM me next time though.

Thanks PH! Lots of ammo in this thread...

 

[johnson2]

love how this thread is like bug spray for all those pesky nonsensical haters

 

[Coy]

359 of 549 4342 yd 34 td 8 int 104.1

In December and January games since 2009, Romo has a 100+ rating 12 times. The Cowboys are 6-6 in those games.

During that time, when PManning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Flacco, Smith, Dalton, Schaub, and Kaepernick go over 100+ in December and January, those 10 quarterbacks have combined to lose 6 games.

Their teams are 104-6.

PM me next time though.

Percy, you are awsome man.