LeBron James vs Michael Jordan

[CalPolyTechnique]

I generally hate the the MJ/Lebron comparison. MJ is a volume score and Lebron is a point forward. Neither can really the other does. Kobe is a comparison for MJ whereas Magic is a comp for Lebron. Different demeanors to go with different skills. A player like Lebron needs to be highly cerebral to be an All Time great. Generations will talk about Lebrons basketball IQ. A volume scorer like Jordan or Kobe need to be cold blooded and driven. Thats one of the things that seperates the Kobes from the Melo's and Iversons

Can you explain what you mean by “volume” scorer? I’ve always thought of Iverson as a volume scorer that put up a lot of points by sheer shooting volume (he was not a deadeye shooter) but a relatively low FG %; to a similar, but lesser extent, so was Kobe. Jordan however shot more 50% from the field most of his career.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Can you explain what you mean by “volume” scorer? I’ve always thought of Iverson as a volume scorer that put up a lot of points by sheer shooting volume (he was not a deadeye shooter) but a relatively low FG %; to a similar, but lesser extent, so was Kobe. Jordan however shot more 50% from the field most of his career.

I just meant a player that scores alot of points

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Here is one of the things that just irks me when people try and claim that LeBron is better because he carries so much more of the load.

Oh Lebron has to rebound and assist so much more so he can't play any defense anymore. He just can't cause he does too much on offense.

Did you know that for their careers LeBron averages a whopping 1 more rebound and 2 more assists per game then Michael? Really? And he just can't play defense because of that 1 extra rebound and 2 extra assists?

Meanwhile Michael averaged more points per game for his career while continuing to be a much better, all NBA defensive player his entire career in Chicago. If Michael hadn't decided he wanted to play a little more his scoring average would have remained at 32 points per game, instead of 30 and he'd then have retired averaging 5 more points per game while still rebounding, getting assists, oh yeah and playing All NBA lock down defense.

Get out of here.

Also did anyone know that in all 6 of Jordan's NBA Championship seasons he had only 1 other teammate as an all star? Cause I hear all the time how Michael had all this other help and LeBron plays with nothing. 6 NBA titles and Scottie Pippen was the only other All star. 1. Just 1. Meanwhile LeBrons 3 titles have come playing on teams that had Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosch, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love as All Stars with LeBron. That's 4 to 1. So get out of here with the help BS. Did you know that with those All-Stars LeBron has had a team mate average 20+ and another average 18+ on every single team he won with?

Michael had Scottie average 20+ and only ever had a 3rd team mate average more than 14 once...and that year they gave him a whopping 15. But LeBron never has enough help, right? What?

And I know people will say but Dennis Rodman...he never was an all star while with Chicago. Not one time. He was a fantastic rebounder, played D, and gave you basically nothing offensively.

Kyrie, while playing with LeBron, was averaging the same area of points per game with LeBron as Scottie was with Michael. Between 20 and 24 points per game. In fact in their last season together Kyrie was actually averaging 25 points per game. Do you know how many times Scottie averaged 25 points per game while playing with Michael?

0

In fact Scottie NEVER averaged more than 22 points per game in his entire career. NEVER. Not even when he was the man in Chicago while Jordan was retired.

So enough with all this ******** about how LeBron has to carry hot garbage to titles while Jordan played with all these amazing all star team mates. And that's just showing you what Kyrie does. I didn't even mention that he also had Love averaging 18 per. Or that in Miami he had Dwayne Wade averaging 20+ while Bosch was averaging 18 a night as well. But LeBron never has any help right? That narrative is false and stupid. Enough with the LeBron has to just carry too much of the offensive load. He just can't play defense because of that. Really? Less points per game, a couple more assists, and 1 more rebound per game and you're having to carry too much of the load to where you can't play D?

Get the F out of here. This debate is beyond stupid because people hear things like "Well LeBron tied MJ on 30 point playoff games. He's got to be just as great."

Never mind the fact that it's taken him almost 60 more playoff games to match Michael's total, despite supposedly having to carry so much more of the offensive load that he just can't play D. But that's none of my business.

People need to stop with this silly crap. LeBron is an all time great player. He's amazing. He should be proud of what he's done with no shame at all.

But he is not as great as Michael. He's not now, nor is he going to be as great as Michael, let alone better than Michael.

MJ is the G.O.A.T

Period.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Hey, anyone seen Bron Bron last night? LMAO

Folks, this guy is no Jordan. He lacks the competitive fire. Jordan in his entire career never laid down like Lebron did last night.

 

[Diehardblues]

Jordan never got a team as crappy as the Cav team to a Finals. This Cav team had no business in Finals.

 

[TheCoolFan]

LeBron has always been a better scoring version of Magic. Both are PGs that like to run the offense and can score but they weren't exactly the same type of scorer that MJ was (even though LeBron's points per game is up there, HOW he gets those points is completely different from MJ's offensive repertoire).

That's why I always take MJ simply because I have more confidence in giving him the ball in one of his dominant areas on the floor and he will make something happen. MJ is probably the best post-up guard ever and his ability to score from the triple threat is also unmatched. When you are in a crucial point of the game and need offense, you can run a play to get MJ the ball in one of his areas and let him go to work.

The mid-range jumper is becoming a lost art in today's game. MJ wasn't the greatest 3-pt shooter but he was deadly from mid-range. Today's players only seem to care about shooting threes but to become a complete scorer, you really need that mid-range game.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Jordan never got a team as crappy as the Cav team to a Finals. This Cav team had no business in Finals.

If only this was the first time lebron has folded in the finals. ..........

 

[Future]

Does anyone think Michael is just going to watch Scottie iso with a minute left in Game 7?

This was the point sealed it for me that MJ is the GOAT. The moment does not get any bigger, and Bron was sitting in the corner letting someone else make the play.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Does anyone think Michael is just going to watch Scottie iso with a minute left in Game 7?

This was the point sealed it for me that MJ is the GOAT. The moment does not get any bigger, and Bron was sitting in the corner letting someone else make the play.

They don't when that Finals without Kyrie.

 

[Doomsday]

Jordan never got a team as crappy as the Cav team to a Finals. This Cav team had no business in Finals.

LeBron would't of sniffed the conference finals with these teams if he had to go through quality teams like Jordan did in the Celtics and Pistons.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Loooool, and NOW LeBron breaks out the hand cast.....

 

[TheCoolFan]

I guess the broken hand settles it...he is BETTER than MJ ever was

 

[Vintage]

Rodman was an absolute monster on the glass, and Kukoc may not have been a starter but he was a fantastic offensive player off the bench.

LOL trying to slam the '96-98 Bulls supporting cast is about the weakest argument for MJ over LeBron I've ever seen. Wow.

MJ's coach during his 6 titles was pretty good too, in case you forgot. LeBron won a title with the clueless Tyronn Lue vs the 73-9 Warriors. Because LeBron's the greatest player of all-time.

Except, Jordan carried that Bulls team in the 98 playoffs.

 

[jterrell]

I do not believe either Jordan nor LeBron are truly the greatest player of all-time.
I believe that would go to Wilt. He AVERAGED 30 points and 23 Rebounds.
That was with his semi-retired seasons in LA where he mostly just attended orgies and hung out with actresses...
Also he joined the NBA at 23. Guys didn't get to enter at 19 back then.

Jordan IS an ICON but he is also the most overrated athlete of all-time.
I loved Jordan so I don't say that lightly but it is reality.
Jordan was a 84% Free Throw shooter. 33% 3PT shooter.
He was a volume shooter who led the league in FG attempts EVERY YEAR. He led the league in MISSED FGs 7 times!!!!
Jordan did league the league in WILL TO WIN. He played great defense and could score as well.
He was also the most appealing player in league history to watch because of his athleticism and charisma on the court.

But the 1980s saw a physical brand of basketball.
The NBA's biggest stars were Bird and Magic. Neither could defend a lick without pulling and tugging and hand checking.
So the NBA allowed that big-time.
Jordan entered that NBA and he was bounced 3 times in R1 of the playoffs.
So the NBA made these new soft rules you see now.
Why? To benefit MICHAEL JORDAN!!! And sell tickets and TV.
No one wanted to see Jordan get mugged. They wanted to see him go for 40.
It was the ESPN, Sports Center era.

People want to make a big deal of LeBron being 3-6 in the Finals but he has dragged terrible teams to the NBA Finals.
BOS beat him with KG, Allen and Pierce. 3 Hall of Famers and an All Star Rondo.
GSW is now beating him with Steph and KD two sure-fire HoFs and 2 more All-Stars in Draymond and Klay.

Jordan never made a Finals without his Hall of Fame sidekick Pippen.
In his first retirement they won a title with a 57 win season, he retired and the team fell off to a whole whopping 55 wins.... LOL.
People don't understand Pippen was often considered the 2nd best player in the league at the time.
When they got Rodman he was considered the best rebounder and defender in the game.
Those Bulls teams were truly special.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I do not believe either Jordan nor LeBron are truly the greatest player of all-time.
I believe that would go to Wilt. He AVERAGED 30 points and 23 Rebounds.
That was with his semi-retired seasons in LA where he mostly just attended orgies and hung out with actresses...
Also he joined the NBA at 23. Guys didn't get to enter at 19 back then.

Jordan IS an ICON but he is also the most overrated athlete of all-time.
I loved Jordan so I don't say that lightly but it is reality.
Jordan was a 84% Free Throw shooter. 33% 3PT shooter.
He was a volume shooter who led the league in FG attempts EVERY YEAR. He led the league in MISSED FGs 7 times!!!!
Jordan did league the league in WILL TO WIN. He played great defense and could score as well.
He was also the most appealing player in league history to watch because of his athleticism and charisma on the court.

But the 1980s saw a physical brand of basketball.
The NBA's biggest stars were Bird and Magic. Neither could defend a lick without pulling and tugging and hand checking.
So the NBA allowed that big-time.
Jordan entered that NBA and he was bounced 3 times in R1 of the playoffs.
So the NBA made these new soft rules you see now.
Why? To benefit MICHAEL JORDAN!!! And sell tickets and TV.
No one wanted to see Jordan get mugged. They wanted to see him go for 40.
It was the ESPN, Sports Center era.

People want to make a big deal of LeBron being 3-6 in the Finals but he has dragged terrible teams to the NBA Finals.
BOS beat him with KG, Allen and Pierce. 3 Hall of Famers and an All Star Rondo.
GSW is now beating him with Steph and KD two sure-fire HoFs and 2 more All-Stars in Draymond and Klay.

Jordan never made a Finals without his Hall of Fame sidekick Pippen.
In his first retirement they won a title with a 57 win season, he retired and the team fell off to a whole whopping 55 wins.... LOL.
People don't understand Pippen was often considered the 2nd best player in the league at the time.
When they got Rodman he was considered the best rebounder and defender in the game.
Those Bulls teams were truly special.

This really is an excellent post JT, because not only does it illustrate the differences in eras and why you can't compare players from different eras but it also explains how and why some of these stars have such inflated numbers. Truth is, the NBA has been picking winners and losers for a long time IMO. The only think I don't agree with, in your post, is Wilt. Great player but I think Kareem was better. JMO though.

Great Post JT.

 

[jterrell]

This really is an excellent post JT, because not only does it illustrate the differences in eras and why you can't compare players from different eras but it also explains how and why some of these stars have such inflated numbers. Truth is, the NBA has been picking winners and losers for a long time IMO. The only think I don't agree with, in your post, is Wilt. Great player but I think Kareem was better. JMO though.

Great Post JT.

Thank you.
I do consider Kareem top 5 for sure. But his 25 and 11 pale considerably versus Wilt's 30 and 23.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Thank you.
I do consider Kareem top 5 for sure. But his 25 and 11 pale considerably versus Wilt's 30 and 23.

As I said, you have to consider eras but I do think it's particularly pertinent here. For example, and I know that you know this, the competition that Wilt faced, most of his career was much lessor then the players Kareem faced. Wilt came into the league in a era where there were only a hand full of players that were 7 ft or bigger. Kareem faced them every night. I think there is something to be said there. Don't get me wrong, I think Wilt could have been great vs any number of 7 footers but I don't think he would have put up the same kinds of numbers.

I look at the numbers they posted against each other and to me, that clearly favors Kareem. Both great players though. You couldn't go wrong on either side of this discussion IMO. Among the greatest players of all time, no doubt in my mind.

 

[jterrell]

As I said, you have to consider eras but I do think it's particularly pertinent here. For example, and I know that you know this, the competition that Wilt faced, most of his career was much lessor then the players Kareem faced. Wilt came into the league in a era where there were only a hand full of players that were 7 ft or bigger. Kareem faced them every night. I think there is something to be said there. Don't get me wrong, I think Wilt could have been great vs any number of 7 footers but I don't think he would have put up the same kinds of numbers.

I look at the numbers they posted against each other and to me, that clearly favors Kareem. Both great players though. You couldn't go wrong on either side of this discussion IMO. Among the greatest players of all time, no doubt in my mind.

Head to head? lol.
Wilt was done when KAJ came into the league.
Olajuwon handily outperformed KAJ head to head too.
Doesn't mean Dream was better. Age matters.

KAJ wins longevity versus almost anyone which is what elevates him into top 5 but he was no where near as dominant as Wilt at his best.
Wilt forced the league to create new rules.
He only entered the league 10 years before KAJ so the competition was better but not drastically so.

The big difference was in body styles.
Kareem was 7'3" and rail thin. He was a terrible rebounder by elite big man standards and uniquely awesome offensively.
Wilt was powerful and dominant in a Shaq style way in a Shaq style body. He outweighed KAJ by 50 pounds.

Wilt averaged over 42 PPG and over 25 rebounds per game in his 3rd-6th seasons in the league.
That is unheard of domination the level of which a grown man would have versus elementary school kids.

 

[Joe Realist]

LeBron may end up with all the stats, yet Michael is the better player hands down!

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Jordan IS an ICON but he is also the most overrated athlete of all-time.
I loved Jordan so I don't say that lightly but it is reality.
Jordan was a 84% Free Throw shooter. 33% 3PT shooter.
He was a volume shooter who led the league in FG attempts EVERY YEAR. He led the league in MISSED FGs 7 times!!!!
Jordan did league the league in WILL TO WIN. He played great defense and could score as well.
He was also the most appealing player in league history to watch because of his athleticism and charisma on the court.

Jordan had a career 49.7 FG shooting percentage. That's great for a shooting guard. When you're making 50% of your FG attempts, you're simply an effective scorer that shoots a lot. That's not to be confused with a volume scorer.

The textbook volume scorer was Allen Iverson.

Iverson was a career 42.5% shooter (some seasons he shot below 40% for the year). He'd get you 30 points, but it would take 30 FG attempts to get there. That's a volume scorer.

Check Jordan's efficiency versus Kobe.