Let's face it - with 1 injury to Roy our WR position

[Four]

How can you suggest this team is the same team? That is a leap.

We are trotting out a completely new passing attack with just a few of the same players, and not one guy who has sustained multiple 1000-yard seasons in his carer.

We either have crayton as the #2 and expect him to suddenly become a threat with the footspeed of a one-legged man.

Or we rely on Austin who has 18-catches and faded last December more than a Madras shirt.

Now the answer that usually comes back is Witten is number two and then the stats follow.

Witten is not a WR and the team needs a second threat that stretches the field. Because other that Felix, this offense doesn't have great team speed.

roy williams runs a sub 4.4

Bennett looks to have speed I never expected.

The team is the same, only now we don't have to funnel our offense through a primadonna me first receiver.

Crayton is great in the slot role, no one is calling him a burner but he is solid as all heck.

you saying we are in trouble is far more of a leap than me saying we are in much better shape than you chicken little guys realize.

 

[OAM]

passing attack wasn't pedestrian year before last, how soon you people forget how we lit it up only one season ago.

We had a down year, it doesn't mean we are dooomed. Why do you guys make such huge leaps?

We lit it up on offense last year also, with TR in of course. Not saying we can't do it again, especially if healthy. But big mouth isn't on the team anymore and if there's one thing we have to give that guy is he put up numbers and threatened defenses to the point where they were most concerned with him.

He isn't here no more and these guys have to step up like their pay and/or the time investment this team has made in them would suggest. Injuries happen, it's part of the game. But so is having a suitable contingency. Stanback and Hurd don't strike me as dependable enough to be suitable. Austin has talent, but can he start a full season?

 

[TwoDeep3]

You said the answer to our WR situation was bringing in a veteran receiver... I assume you mean a receiver who has been productive in the league, otherwise where's the advantage??

And as I noted, the notion that the answer to a problem is to bring in a "name" veteran is pure Danny Boy... if the scouts think that Crayton, Austin and Hurd are legitimate receiving threats, then they should throw them out there opposite Roy...

In fact, it seems to me that this coaching staff's biggest problem is their reluctance to throw the kids out there and see what they've got...

So Bear, are you prepared for a 7-9 season?

The scouts may think they have found treasure in trash. But if the coaches see these guys everyday and come away not sure they can hack it, how is that not a less than ringing endorsement for these three?

The one aspect to football I really admire is if you have the talent and can execute, you can start and be somebody. No mater where you come from.

Romo exemplifies this.

If these kids can't take the position in practice, what is tossing them out there to see what we've got going to prove when the game is on the line?

I understand there are guys that don't practice well and are monsters in a game situation.

But not one of those guys have impressed the coaching staff enough to take that risk.

Jerry is forcing this by poor-boying the WR core after Williams.

I do so hope it works. I'd love to see Austin be to the WR position what Romo is to the QB position.

But with Austin nursing an injury, it looks doubtful.

 

[silverbear]

Not the OP's legal rep or anything, but what high end name vet did he mention to protrude this Dan Snyder syndrome?

In fact, the OP didn't mention ANY names, he just alluded to some vague "veteran"... I'd be fascinated to hear what veteran wideout he has in mind...

If he's not talking about a proven, productive veteran, i.e., a "name" vet, then what's the point??

I'm sure he's not talking about the likes of Kelley Washington, recently signed with the Ravens... yeah, he's a "veteran", but he's never done much more than Austin or Hurd have...

In fact, the OP didn't mention ANY names, he just alluded to some vague "veteran"...

My perception is that his post expresses that reliable veteran depth would add value to the WR corps in case our #1 goes down.

And my perception is that "reliable veteran depth" means a PROVEN producer, thus a "name" receiver... which means somebody you're gonna have to pay pretty well to come to Dallas...

Who would you suggest?? Who's out there on the open market who represents a more viable option that Austin, Hurd et al?? I would have agreed if Torry Holt was out there, but don't go bringing up Marvin Harrison or Jerry Porter, or that sort of veteran...

Basically, I'm saying the ship has sailed on the veteran receiver option...

Not saying our WR's can't be capable myself, but I won't know either way until the end of this season because there's ver little proven thus far. I think some solid depth at the position is a good idea, especially if we continue to have half the corps on the sideline during practice.

You do know the season's still three months away, don't you??

 

[silverbear]

We are already seeing Austin miss time because of injury.

This team is flying without a net and all the talk about, if so-n-so went down team X would be screwed ignores the fact that our passing attack is pedestrian at best when everyone is healthy.

You just don't know that, pal... it was 5th best in the league last year, and that's hardly "pedestrian"...

Are you saying that subtracting "the player" from the equation, all by itself, renders our passing attack "pedestrian"??

If so, I reject that position... I actually think that the passing game could be improved without him, and not just because I'm a homer...

Austin is the homer's fav, but if this kid fails due to health or skill, we may be in deep doo.

But if you bring in a veteran, you limit your ability to find out if he's really as good as the coaches think he is... and as I've said repeatedly in this thread, at this point there's nobody out there so good that I'd be willing to do that... I would have loved to have them bring in a Torry Holt, but there don't seem to be any wideouts like him still on the open market...

 

[Four]

So Bear, are you prepared for a 7-9 season?

The scouts may think they have found treasure in trash. But if the coaches see these guys everyday and come away not sure they can hack it, how is that not a less than ringing endorsement for these three?

The one aspect to football I really admire is if you have the talent and can execute, you can start and be somebody. No mater where you come from.

Romo exemplifies this.

If these kids can't take the position in practice, what is tossing them out there to see what we've got going to prove when the game is on the line?

I understand there are guys that don't practice well and are monsters in a game situation.

But not one of those guys have impressed the coaching staff enough to take that risk.

Jerry is forcing this by poor-boying the WR core after Williams.

I do so hope it works. I'd love to see Austin be to the WR position what Romo is to the QB position.

But with Austin nursing an injury, it looks doubtful.

where do you get that jerry is doing anything?

The media says the stuff about the receivers.

and you eat it up, they want to scare you because it sells copy.

Come on, it's been OTAs not even real practice, and it's the first team activity in months, what do you really expect?

 

[TwoDeep3]

roy williams runs a sub 4.4

Bennett looks to have speed I never expected.

The team is the same, only now we don't have to funnel our offense through a primadonna me first receiver.

Crayton is great in the slot role, no one is calling him a burner but he is solid as all heck.

you saying we are in trouble is far more of a leap than me saying we are in much better shape than you chicken little guys realize.

1st off, the chicken little comment is BS. That is a label to minimize anything I have to say.

Last year I screamed bloody murder about the penalties in pre-season. I was called a chicken little. We were second in the most penalties.

Leave your labels at the door.

RW11 ran a sub 4.4 forty in his pro-day at UT on a fast track. And I am a huge RW11 fan and I don't believe that is his real football speed.

Forcing the ball to TO as it stands right now is a myth.

But what is the truth is TO represented about 30% of our passing game. And the parts we have still need to prove they can account for the drop-off.

I think TO needed to go. But who in this passing game truthfully will keep an offensive coordinator awake the night before a game?

Garrett has to prove he can handle generating a passing attack that will take the 8-man fronts off the running game.

I am cautious about this season.

This team has potential. I like the two TEs and think this could be a key.

But health of the WRs and the lack of experience suggests this season has more pitfalls than glory. To say so doesn't make me a chicken little.

 

[silverbear]

So Bear, are you prepared for a 7-9 season?

I don't think that throwing Austin and Hurd out there means a 7-9 season...

The scouts may think they have found treasure in trash. But if the coaches see these guys everyday and come away not sure they can hack it, how is that not a less than ringing endorsement for these three?

It would appear that they think they CAN hack it, thus no moves for a veteran wideout... your premise is flawed...

If these kids can't take the position in practice,

There's our fundamental difference-- you seem quite certain that they can't... but I think the coaches are confident that they can...

You do know this is early JUNE, don't you?? And that they aren't even practicing in pads?? How can you judge the young guys based on OTAs??

Jerry is forcing this by poor-boying the WR core after Williams.

And you have evidence that this is all "Jerry meddling"?? If so, by all means, share it with us...

I happen to believe the decision to go with the kids was a cooperative one, including Phillips' and Garrett's input... you seem to believe that Jerry is doing this over their objections...

I would suggest to you that if Jerry had his way, TO would still be a Cowboy... IOW, he didn't WANT to go the "poor-boy" route, as you put it, he was talked into going that way by his people...

I do so hope it works. I'd love to see Austin be to the WR position what Romo is to the QB position.

All he needs to be is a 50-60 catch a season, second option... especially if he provides some deep threat to the team... given his career average of 19.7 yards per catch, I'm confident the only thing that will keep either one from happening is injury...

The injury concern is somewhat legitimate, but at this point there's nothing on the free agent market that looks like much of an upgrade to me...

 

[OAM]

In fact, the OP didn't mention ANY names, he just alluded to some vague "veteran"... I'd be fascinated to hear what veteran wideout he has in mind...

If he's not talking about a proven, productive veteran, i.e., a "name" vet, then what's the point??

I'm sure he's not talking about the likes of Kelley Washington, recently signed with the Ravens... yeah, he's a "veteran", but he's never done much more than Austin or Hurd have...

In fact, the OP didn't mention ANY names, he just alluded to some vague "veteran"...




And my perception is that "reliable veteran depth" means a PROVEN producer, thus a "name" receiver... which means somebody you're gonna have to pay pretty well to come to Dallas...

Who would you suggest?? Who's out there on the open market who represents a more viable option that Austin, Hurd et al?? I would have agreed if Torry Holt was out there, but don't go bringing up Marvin Harrison or Jerry Porter, or that sort of veteran...

Basically, I'm saying the ship has sailed on the veteran receiver option...



You do know the season's still three months away, don't you??

Makes sense. I would have loved having Torry Holt and I think he has a terrific attitude, plus a ring for leadership. But yup, that ship has sailed and hit land. Furthermore, Crayton or MA get the back burner with a guy like that here and that apparently is against the plans whether one agrees with Jerry's philosophy or not.

Hostile had a good post with a list of available WR's yesterday. I saw guys like Drew Bennett and Brandon Lloyd on there. I wouldn't mind taking a look at Lloyd. Jerry Porter has showcased talent in the past but his attitude stinks. My idea of depth is really someone that will compete in practice for a spot and force guys like Hurd and Stanback to earn a spot on this team this year. They've been around long enough to have to show dependability.

Maybe push Austin and Crayton too. I think Crayton's focused and MA is just running into his usual offseason glitches. But someone who can compete and add depth on game day if one of these historically injured WR's wakes up with an itch in his throat and doesn't want to practice or play on game day. Someone who isn't asking for HOF money or past 1 year like Marvin Harrison and catch a ball near the chest.

I know we're 3 months away. But I also know half of the WR corps isn't even practicing in supposed non contact practices because they have injuries. I know the $9 million a year man is practicing and I like that. PC called some of these guys out sighting the practice field was rough but not an excuse to be used for not practicing. I like that. So if I have to go RW and PC 1 and 2 I can do that. Who's #3? Austin is supposed to be # 2 but the typical glitches. Hurd and Stanback, busines as usual again. 3-4 years of this whether they are legit injuries and OTA's or not. Historical trends rearing their ugly head in the meager present.

 

[TwoDeep3]

where do you get that jerry is doing anything?

The media says the stuff about the receivers.

and you eat it up, they want to scare you because it sells copy.

Come on, it's been OTAs not even real practice, and it's the first team activity in months, what do you really expect?

You are aware that Jerry released TO aren't you?

You are aware that Jerry has stated he thinks Austin can take TOs spot?

You are aware Jerry gave Austin a second round tender in the off-season aren't you?

Other than RW11, the rest of thgese guys aren't making a great deal of money. Hence my poor-boy comment.

What I expect is for Austin to not run to the whirlpool after a few practices.

Everything you see now has a meaning in the season. Mental mistakes make for december illegal motion and calling plays back.

Go to NFLN and rewatch the Giants game in the play-offs from the season you're heralding and watch the pentalties that caused us to lose the game.

But please ignore the two passes that Craytonm alligator armed because he is a real player.

 

[Four]

1st off, the chicken little comment is BS. That is a label to minimize anything I have to say.

Last year I screamed bloody murder about the penalties in pre-season. I was called a chicken little. We were second in the most penalties.

Leave your labels at the door.

RW11 ran a sub 4.4 forty in his pro-day at UT on a fast track. And I am a huge RW11 fan and I don't believe that is his real football speed.

Forcing the ball to TO as it stands right now is a myth.

But what is the truth is TO represented about 30% of our passing game. And the parts we have still need to prove they can account for the drop-off.

I think TO needed to go. But who in this passing game truthfully will keep an offensive coordinator awake the night before a game?

Garrett has to prove he can handle generating a passing attack that will take the 8-man fronts off the running game.

I am cautious about this season.

This team has potential. I like the two TEs and think this could be a key.

But health of the WRs and the lack of experience suggests this season has more pitfalls than glory. To say so doesn't make me a chicken little.

dude, you are being way overly negative.

you don't come off as optimistic you come off as a pessimist hoping to be proven wrong.

That's pretty chicken little of you, imo.

I am not dismissing a thing you say, but don't say we are in worse shape than we are and not expect someone to call you on it.

And on the TO thing, I don't see the myth, I see a guy who you couldn't ever count on in any game, and who dropped way too many catchable balls. And then goes on TV complaining that he needed to ball more.

We are better off on offense without him.

this team gets penalties, got them with parcells, now with wade. I don't know what the answer is, but neither do you. And honestly, I don't care about penalties, I care about the score.

 

[Four]

You are aware that Jerry released TO aren't you?

You are aware that Jerry has stated he thinks Austin can take TOs spot?

You are aware Jerry gave Austin a second round tender in the off-season aren't you?

Other than RW11, the rest of thgese guys aren't making a great deal of money. Hence my poor-boy comment.

What I expect is for Austin to not run to the whirlpool after a few practices.

Everything you see now has a meaning in the season. Mental mistakes make for december illegal motion and calling plays back.

Go to NFLN and rewatch the Giants game in the play-offs from the season you're heralding and watch the pentalties that caused us to lose the game.

But please ignore the two passes that Craytonm alligator armed because he is a real player.

yes crayton ruined our whole season. Come on man, you don't really wonder why people would call you a chicken little do you?

crayton makes a couple of mistakes and fans like you write him off as a hack.

about the OTAs, it's june

you guys want jerry to say austin sucks and we are doomed?

I don't know what would make you happy, but I am pretty sure it isn't possible.

 

[JBS]

I haven't read this whole thread so I could be a bit off base with my comments but ill take a stab regardless.

The REALITY about the National Football League is that it does NOT take a STUD receiving core to win an NFL championship. If you factor in our tight ends and running backs receiving potential (witten, bennett, felix, mb3, choice) we have more than enough options to go to when the ball is in the air. The fact of the matter is, if this offense is run correctly, the fate of our season will rest on our offensive lines ability to run block and our 3 headed monster at running back dominating games. Our lack of "proven" wide receivers will not make or break our team.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I don't think that throwing Austin and Hurd out there means a 7-9 season...



It would appear that they think they CAN hack it, thus no moves for a veteran wideout... your premise is flawed...

No Bear, you assume Jerry didn't have a hand in this. And that he is trying to catch lightening in a jar like he did with Romo. What it comes down to for me is the three games in december when Austin was healthy and posted 1 catch for 23-yards. So is he the guy who hung 115 on Green Bay, or the guy that was Caspar the ghost during December?

This has significance, Bear.


There's our fundamental difference-- you seem quite certain that they can't... but I think the coaches are confident that they can...

No, I think there is no plan B if they can't. And that is my biggest problem. We are hanging a season on the chance that Austin and Hurd can replace a major part of the passing attack supplied by TO.

We haven't seen one thing that can say they will with any consistency. They might. But if they don't, what is Plan B?

You do know this is early JUNE, don't you?? And that they aren't even practicing in pads?? How can you judge the young guys based on OTAs??

Yes. I am reminded that all the penalties we saw in pratice last year were pooh pooh'd by some as well.

I believe the planning we have seen for this season is less than encouraging unless everything hits.

It won't take much from the injury bug to reduce this offense to a struggle.

And you have evidence that this is all "Jerry meddling"?? If so, by all means, share it with us...

I happen to believe the decision to go with the kids was a cooperative one, including Phillips' and Garrett's input... you seem to believe that Jerry is doing this over their objections...

I would suggest to you that if Jerry had his way, TO would still be a Cowboy... IOW, he didn't WANT to go the "poor-boy" route, as you put it, he was talked into going that way by his people...

I'd like to see a sample of anything that indicates Jerry would have kept TO. But allow me to offer you this.

Quincy Carter
Chad Hutchinson
Chad Hennings
Clint Stoerner
Ryan Leaf
Anthony Wright
Drew Bloedsoe

Jerry threw a lot of work and a lot of tears at this position. But not that much money in the big scheme of things. You are one of the more knowledgable voyeurs of this team. You surely remember the comments by Jerry about the luxury of not having to pay a franchise quarterback during the tenure of these players listed above.

Romo's results remain to be seen. But at this juncture you'd have to say that he looks great and hope spring eternal.

That will be the bane of Jerry Jones because if Romo ever delivers the ultimate prize, Jerry will be trying to sink a well in every dry spot on this earth trying to replicate that feat.

To be precise, Jerry has seen the Romo success and now will be chacing every player that has the dreaded potentiasl to try and fill other positions with walk-ons and beat the odds. The fact he drilled oil wells indicates he is a risk taker. How many failures does it take for a franchise to go 5-11 three seasons in a row?

Come on Bear, you know this stuff. Jerry is trying to prove the geologists wrong on some of these guys. Romo is his motivation.

Austin may be the next Jerry Rice. But other than a couple of nice catches in the Green Bay game, just how sure re you that he packs the goods?

I will be pleasantly surprised is this occurs. But I also think there is just as large a chance that he fails. His history suggests that in three inch headlines so far.


All he needs to be is a 50-60 catch a season, second option... especially if he provides some deep threat to the team... given his career average of 19.7 yards per catch, I'm confident the only thing that will keep either one from happening is injury...

The injury concern is somewhat legitimate, but at this point there's nothing on the free agent market that looks like much of an upgrade to me...

I thought we should have made a play for Holt. That went by the wayside.

But to suggest because he has had a career average of 19.7 doesn't mean when he faces a tougher challenge from a better corner, and defenses now looking his way, that he will continue this stellar yards-per-catch.

Austin is the unknown. In a game where they measure everything, his making the grade is like going to Vegas and betting on the come line. I hope it works. But the unbridled glee from some fans proffering this great passing game because we did so two years ago seems a little rash for me.

But this does seem like old time, eh Bear?

 

[TwoDeep3]

yes crayton ruined our whole season. Come on man, you don't really wonder why people would call you a chicken little do you?

crayton makes a couple of mistakes and fans like you write him off as a hack.

about the OTAs, it's june

you guys want jerry to say austin sucks and we are doomed?

I don't know what would make you happy, but I am pretty sure it isn't possible.

Maybe you should read my post before you comment. Because you haven't seemed to get it right yet.

Further, you have no clue who I am. And I'd say I am one of the truly more unbridled homers on any of these boards.

But I also attended the first Cowboy game against Pittsburgh back in the day. And if age has taught me nothing, it has showm me in this league, the truly great Rudy stories are on the movie threater screens in most cases.

Show me and chicken little are two different things.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I haven't read this whole thread so I could be a bit off base with my comments but ill take a stab regardless.

The REALITY about the National Football League is that it does NOT take a STUD receiving core to win an NFL championship. If you factor in our tight ends and running backs receiving potential (witten, bennett, felix, mb3, choice) we have more than enough options to go to when the ball is in the air. The fact of the matter is, if this offense is run correctly, the fate of our season will rest on our offensive lines ability to run block and our 3 headed monster at running back dominating games. Our lack of "proven" wide receivers will not make or break our team.

OK, please show me how to factor these things in. Then show me how this will play out.

I understand what you say. I see a potential there if all things work out.

I also see the best team in the NFL hand 21 points to the Niners, and even then make a come back only to be screewed by the refs on a PI pentalty that wasn't called. And the Niners have one of our Super Bowl trophies.

So factoring is great. But it doesn't always work out.

So what's Plan B if things in the passing game don't jive?

 

[Sarge]

When one of your starters at ANY position goes down, you are essentially automatically weaker at that position. It's that simple. Same for every position, same for every team. It is what it is.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

is sunk. And that is if Roy is even who we think he is. Miles Austin is the next great Wr and he only has 18 catches in 3 years. Hell Brandon Marshall was a 4th rd pick the same year as Austin and he had 18 catches in 1 game last year.

Some of you will say yea but he hasn't been givin the chance. He's getting a chance everyday in practice to beat out a 7th rd pick that was a QB in college and made it to where the coaches couldn't keep him off the field.

At some point Miles' potential has to turn into production. This is year 4.

Are we gonna put all our eggs into the "potential" basket of Miles, Hurd and Stanback?

I for 1 would like to see a vet WR brought in. If these guys can't beat him out then so be it.

What if Roy and Miles both get dinged and miss some time. You want to see Crayton and Hurd at 1 and 2?

I think Miles has alot of potetial but bringing in a vet for some insurance wouldn't hurt my feelings any.

We will be fine. We got Hurd, Austin and Stanback.

 

[TwoDeep3]

dude, you are being way overly negative.

you don't come off as optimistic you come off as a pessimist hoping to be proven wrong.

That's pretty chicken little of you, imo.

I am not dismissing a thing you say, but don't say we are in worse shape than we are and not expect someone to call you on it.

And on the TO thing, I don't see the myth, I see a guy who you couldn't ever count on in any game, and who dropped way too many catchable balls. And then goes on TV complaining that he needed to ball more.

We are better off on offense without him.

this team gets penalties, got them with parcells, now with wade. I don't know what the answer is, but neither do you. And honestly, I don't care about penalties, I care about the score.

Actually what the deal is this solemn commentary shakes your rosy outlook.

Look at any sports columnist who proffers any opinion opposite of the fans and suddenly he is labeled on boards like this as a know-nothing and a moron.

I don't recall seeing anyone on any board go back and say, "Man that guy nailed us last year. He saw the truth and we refused to see it."

My opinion is this receiver corp is thin. We have unproven commodities throughout except for Witten and perhaps RW11. We all hope they will stand up to the test, but we don't know.

Any other commentary is speculation, and that is not based in fact yet. To articulate that this may go south for us if we have an injury or some of these guys can't tote their end of the deal is just telling the truth.

Label it as you like.

 

[lspain1]

My opinion is this receiver corp is thin. We have unproven commodities throughout except for Witten and perhaps RW11. We all hope they will stand up to the test, but we don't know.

Any other commentary is speculation, and that is not based in fact yet. To articulate that this may go south for us if we have an injury or some of these guys can't tote their end of the deal is just telling the truth.

Label it as you like.

TwoDeep has a point and most folks have some concern about this. The level of concern is greater (or not) depending upon whether you think Miles Austin has truly been injury prone or just unlucky. It is my opinion (can someone show stats on this?) that balanced teams and pass oriented teams in today's NFL do better overall than run oriented teams over the course of a season.

I have enough doubts about our O-line and its depth that becoming a highly run oriented team carries its own risks. This is probably trite, but I think the Cowboys are going to have to find a way to grow some WR talent from the draft if they are going to be a perennial contender. IMO we've not demonstrated any kind of attempt to really do that.

The Cowboys have not really attempted to use a 1st (or 2nd) round pick to grow a wide receiver in a long time and other teams in our division are taking a different approach. We'll see if they are successful. I know the bust factor is high, but the price to acquire WR talent on the FA market seems extraordinarily high and isn't sustainable. I am unconvinced the Cowboys are placing much of a priority on this. Everyone can point to the Marques Colston type of stories, but I think the odds of making that work are poor indeed.

I'll say it again. TwoDeep has a point.