Lets Ponder the Patriots Deflationgate Issue

[Rogah]

Apples and doughnuts comparison. Whether you think it's a minor violation or not, the League looks it as cheating. The NFL should have a zero tolerance policy with NE for cheating/intentionally skirting the rules because of their history.

With all due respect, that is an obscenely ridiculous thing to say. Obviously there are different degrees of cheating.

Vikings got caught tampering with footballs and they got a letter of warning. It is the NFL equivalent of a speeding ticket. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why the Patriots should get anything significantly greater than that. (Key words: significantly greater. Even given that it is a 2nd offense, you still don't throw someone in jail for 20 years for going 70 in a 65)

Seven years is not a long time and all the major players have remained the same, even Josh McDaniels is back(funny DEN got in trouble when he was there).

Funny how Denver has cheated in far, far worse ways than the Patriots ever did. Anyone who thinks Spygate is a bigger deal than deliberately hiding payments to athletes to exceed the salary cap just doesn't know football.

Even Josh Gordon is looking at a year suspension for drinking alcohol.

No he is not looking at a year suspension for drinking alcohol. He is looking at a year suspension for failing 2 drug tests (placing him in stage 3 of the NFL's drug program) and then drinking alcohol within 1 year of a DUI arrest.

 

[khiladi]

Again, the Minnesota analogy is just absurd.

1. It happened on the sidelines in full view of everybody
2. The Panthers also did it
3. The teams were told during the game and they stopped
4. The league sent out memos that one cannot use artificial means to alter the balls
5. There was nothing systematic about it. Cold day, Vikings used the heat warmers on the sidelines to heat up balls just like the Panthers did.

The Pats, if found guilty, did it in hiding. The Pats, if found guilty, did to create an edge that other teams would not have. The Pats, if found guilty, did it AFTER this incident. The Pats, if found guilty, blew off the NFL even after this warning. The Pats, if found guilty, were being systematic about it.

Further, even if one accept the idea around Denver, it's baseless as well. First of all, we don't know the extent of the Spygate cheating because Goodell declared the investigation over in 4 days without even speaking to Matt Walsh, nor looking at his eight tapes. Again, a respective poster even denied that allegations surrounding using alternate frequencies were made. Secondly, we know that a simple change in play-caller for the Cowboys pushed them from an 8-8 team last year to a 12-4 team this year, pretty much being robbed of a SB appearance on the Dez catch. Third, Spygate dealt with what was actually happening on the field. Fourth, the Patriots constantly lied during the NFL. Fifth, the Patriots were violating rules for over 8 years in relation to game play.

http://broncotalk.net/2008/05/1485/...enver-broncos-cap-infractions-from-the-1990s/

Denver and Spygate is comparing apples to oranges. To argue what Denver did as related to it's accounting practices is way worse than what the Patriots did in Spygate and it's relation to the integrity of the game and whoever argues otherwise doesn't know football is just comical...

 

[Yakuza Rich]

True!! And there is this ....

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12244290


"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," Blake said. "'Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard. Everybody puts the pin in and lets just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat.

"So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Were they deflated beyond the range of what they were supposed to be?

That's the question.

Everybody knows that you can manipulate the footballs to a degree. I would imagine that the league probably fills them to the max amount per the guidelines and if you wan to deflate them a little, as long as they meet the required range, you're perfectly allowed to do so.

Blake's statement means absolutely nothing that we didn't already know.





YR

 

[Doomsday101]

Translation: "I am going to assume they are guilty of stonewalling even though there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they have done anything but be 100% cooperative."

yeah the balls deflated themselves. Someone within the Pats organization did this and like it or not that is cheating, you can defend them until your blue in the face but fact is there are rules and all 32 teams are bound by those rules. Brady did not say he did it? hell we have jails filled with innocent people if you ask them. League is not going to do much until the season is over with and if someone has not only broken the rules but then lied about it then that person should be suspended

 

[Rogah]

Again, the Minnesota analogy is just absurd.

The only absurd thing is the idiotic notion that these "crimes"' are different.

The Vikings tampered with the balls, blatantly violating the rules, in order to make them easier to grip and handle. The Patriots are accused of tampering with the balls to make them easier to grip and handle.

Anything else is just a pathetic attempt at obfuscation. Anyone being intellectually honest would admit the "crimes" are virtually identical.

 

[khiladi]

The only absurd thing is the idiotic notion that these "crimes"' are different.

The Vikings tampered with the balls, blatantly violating the rules, in order to make them easier to grip and handle. The Patriots are accused of tampering with the balls to make them easier to grip and handle.

Anything else is just a pathetic attempt at obfuscation. Anyone being intellectually honest would admit the "crimes" are virtually identical.

Keep trying... You keep talking about court of law and also ignore the fact that crimes have varying degrees. Who is being intellectually dishonest and obfuscating?

 

[JJHLH1]

Well, I'll ask you the question I have asked many others in here and no one has answered:

The Minnesota Vikings were caught tampering with balls earlier this season by warming them on the sideline (which is blatantly illegal) and as punishment they got a letter of warning. If a first offense merits a letter of warning, then what should a second offense merit?

If you're really concerned about competitive fairness and integrity of the game, you would not want one team to be severely punished for something that another team got caught doing and got nothing but a letter of warning.

Were the Vikings' footballs properly inflated? Were they deliberately altered after being inspected and signed off on by the officials? Were they rechecked by the ref? Do you have a copy of the rule regarding warming balls up on the sideline? I assume this was done out in the open where everyone could see it, including the officials.

Here is the rule regarding ball inflation:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

But really this issue has nothing to do with the Vikings, unless they were also deflating footballs illegally. Its deflecting the argument. If I break the law and tell the police, "hey, everyone's doing it!", they would laugh at me.

 

[Rogah]

Keep trying... You keep talking about court of law and also ignore the fact that crimes have varying degrees. Who is being intellectually dishonest and obfuscating?

FACT: The Vikings tampered with the balls, blatantly violating the rules, in order to make them easier to grip and handle. They got a letter of reprimand.

The Patriots are accused of tampering with the balls to make them easier to grip and handle. The "crimes" are absolutely, 100% identical. The only difference is the manner in which they were carried out.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

obfuscation.

Whoah

 

[Rogah]

Were the Vikings' footballs properly inflated?

I have no idea, but that is irrelevant. They are not accused of having improperly inflated balls. They are accused of blatantly violating the rules and tampering with footballs by warming them up on the sideline.

Were they deliberately altered after being inspected and signed off on by the officials?

Yes. Heating a ball on the sidelines is deliberately altering them in violation of NFL rules.

Were they rechecked by the ref?

I do not believe so, but that doesn't matter since there is video evidence of the rules violation taking place.

Do you have a copy of the rule regarding warming balls up on the sideline?

I am sure if I looked hard enough I could find it, but since every single article written about this incident says it is against league rules, that's good enough for me.

You know I am right and you are not challenging my statement as being factually incorrect, so I see no reason to research the specific rule, section and article.

I assume this was done out in the open where everyone could see it, including the officials.

Well, the officials are a little more focused on the field of play than the sideline attendants standing 8 yards out of bounds, but yes it was done out in the open because it was caught by TV camera.

Here is the rule regarding ball inflation:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

Yes, after the past 10 days, we all know the rule regarding ball inflation. Why you provided proof of something no one is challenging is beyond me.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

What is the point of having this spitting match for days?

Anyone seriously think the other side is going to cave?

 

[Rogah]

What is the point of having this spitting match for days?

Anyone seriously think the other side is going to cave?

Because there's nothing else to do for those of us prepping for the months-long virtual wasteland which is the offseason.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

Because there's nothing else to do for those of us prepping for the months-long virtual wasteland which is the offseason.

Internet mah Jong? It's better than Daytime TV. Well anything is better than daytime TV but you get the point...

 

[khiladi]

FACT: The Vikings tampered with the balls, blatantly violating the rules, in order to make them easier to grip and handle. They got a letter of reprimand.

The Patriots are accused of tampering with the balls to make them easier to grip and handle. The "crimes" are absolutely, 100% identical. The only difference is the manner in which they were carried out.

The Vikings tampered with the ball in the open and stopped when told they weren't allowed to and stopped. The Patriots tampered with balls outside referees views, tried to hide it, lied about it, did this after the NFL warned the league after the Vikings incident, thus the Patriots claiming misunderstanding of the rules would be a lie, and did this after Spygate...

Just like your criminal analogy, their are degrees to crimes. Which brings us back to your criminal analogy, which your no avoiding. Courts give different degrees of punishment for the same 'crime' depending on the manner in which it is carried out.

 

[Staubacher]

The Vikings tampered with the ball in the open and stopped when told they weren't allowed to and stopped. The Patriots tampered with balls outside referees views, tried to hide it, lied about it, did this after the NFL warned the league after the Vikings incident, thus the Patriots claiming misunderstanding of the rules would be a lie, and did this after Spygate...

Just like your criminal analogy, their are degrees to crimes. Which brings us back to your criminal analogy, which your no avoiding. Courts give different degrees of punishment for the same 'crime' depending on the manner in which it is carried out.

If what the Patriots did was so minor, they should have just copped to it and taken their lumps.

Nope, they knew what they were doing was against the rules, rules that were reinforced just this season.

Their long winded and lawyerly denials and spin just reinforce their duplicity.

Deflating the footballs is REALLY important to them. It wasn't oh shucks I didn't know we couldn't place the footballs near a space heater on the sideline.

 

[Rogah]

Internet mah Jong? It's better than Daytime TV. Well anything is better than daytime TV but you get the point...

It is a fun way to kill time while programs compile. I am "fortunate" enough to be working on a contract for a company with I.T. infrastructure that would be considered state of the art during the Danny White era

 

[Rogah]

If what the Patriots did was so minor, they should have just copped to it and taken their lumps.

Why should they do that?

Nope, they knew what they were doing was against the rules, rules that were reinforced just this season.

Not sure what you mean here. I just read a report that says this rule goes all the way back to the 1930's.

Deflating the footballs is REALLY important to them. It wasn't oh shucks I didn't know we couldn't place the footballs near a space heater on the sideline.

This is just hater idiocy. When the Vikings tamper with the football then it's aw shucks it was an accident. When the Patriots tamper with a football, it is a decades long conspiracy throwing the entire competitive balance of all sporting-kind into a state of pure and utter chaos, threatening the very existence of the plane of reality within which we live.

etc.

 

[khiladi]

Even when the Patriots engaged in close to a decade long conspiracy via Spygate the fans trivialized it and even didn't bother to Look at all the allegations. Now that deflate gate has happened, they are suddenly trying to talk about perspective.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

It is a fun way to kill time while programs compile. I am "fortunate" enough to be working on a contract for a company with I.T. infrastructure that would be considered state of the art during the Danny White era

I love Mahjong & I was just ribbing you..

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

This is just hater idiocy.

Indeed

No smoking gun midway during this investigation and a few here want to send the Patriots to Football Hell forever.

As much as a few post on this, they must not have a steady job. If I met one of them I suspect they might be as unstable as the potentially suicidal guy I encountered at the airport this week...they are oblivious to making fools out of themselves at this point.

A few intelligent posts, then wait until the results are in.

I could never insult some of the haters here like they are doing it to themselves.

And they tamper with facts a lot more than those footballs were - the irony!